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#568362 - 10/19/14 6:41 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 62
MichaelBray Offline
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MichaelBray  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 62
NY - New York
Looks like I found the problem.
Removed rotor and clutch basket. There is no play on the clutch shaft. Phew. Rotor looks fine. I'm ruling out bearings based upon what I found in the clutch.
The thrust washer was torn up and had fallen out. There seems to be more play in the clutch center assembly than this one slim washer missing, can account for though. I couldn't get the screws from the clutch center retaining plate out to take a proper look (soaked them in PB ready for tomorrow), but it seems like this play is in the cush drive rubbers. You can move the center side to side and also up and down. There's a ton of play in the clutch center, a good 1/8 inch at least.
Observing the noise with the case off had me focused on the clutch, the noise was in time with some shaky energy transferred to the drive chain.
Now I could be totally wrong back working back I'm thinking about possible causes.
.....All of this was exacerbated (perhaps in part caused by) the fact that the primary was very loose (around 1/2 inch play). It has been for some time with the PO, you can see where the chain has ground out some tracks on the inside of the cases. I'm thinking the heat of that long ride, and the over-tightening of the clutch on the side of the highway finally put the pressure on what was already a long term stress.
I'll let you all know how it pans out but I thank you for your time so far and appreciate the help and input.
Mike

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#568394 - 10/20/14 12:12 am Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,861
DavidP Online content
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DavidP  Online Content

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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,861
Gnashville
The screws in the shock-drive cover are usually punched around the head to secure them. Take a close look, you might need to drill the punch points away. If PO used red Loctite, some heat is in order.
Then, I've always had to use an impact driver to loosen those. Not the air kind, the kind you whack with a hammer.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
#568397 - 10/20/14 1:25 am Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 255
Roger Gulledge Offline
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Roger Gulledge  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 255
Oahu Hawaii USA
Good to see you found the problem, I had the same happen to me. When mine let go I was shifting into 4th and boy did it make a racket, thought I lost the whole motor.



I also had trouble getting the shock-drive cover open. Found it easier to just buy the hole assembly already built. Looked high and low for the right thrust washer to no avail. Unless you have the ability to make one you just might have to settle for a re-pop. The I.D. is bigger than the originals but seam to be working fine so far. Have about 3K on it now and problems.


Last edited by Roger Gulledge; 10/20/14 5:37 pm.

Roger G
70 Thunderbolt
#568779 - 10/22/14 10:15 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 62
MichaelBray Offline
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MichaelBray  Offline
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Posts: 62
NY - New York
Mitch Klempf informed me that there's two sizes of that thrust washer with the same ID #. One is 1.880, the other 2.02"...I had to measure the inside of the center hub to get the right one.

#568856 - 10/23/14 6:08 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
htown Online content
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htown  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
Magnolia, TX
Depending on your budget you might want to consider going this route. It's a lot less work.
http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/p1302/buy/...th-new-rubbers/
Triumph and BSA clutches are interchangable.
I got one of these last year and the quality seems reasonable.
See how worn the grooves for the clutch tangs are. The other problem is the spider and plate it rides on inside the hub can wear pretty severely especially if the rubbers have been bad for a while.
There's not much you can do to repair them.

Last edited by htown; 10/23/14 6:09 pm.

1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#568862 - 10/23/14 7:23 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,970
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,970
Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: lowbrow customs
I would have to say replacing the rubbers in a Triumph clutch hub center is probably one of the most feared and oft-neglected tasks of a British motorcycle owner. These brand new clutch hub centers solve that problem, as they are complete with new rubbers and ready to install! No more torching it and trying to get the impossible stock flat head screws out and wasting hours prying old rubbers out and trying to squeeze the new ones in.


Replacing your rebound rubbers getting you down...
Wife tired of cleaning the blood from the kitchen sink after putting a screw driver through your hand...
then try P-80.
Burma-Shave.

PS: Looked at picture of damaged thrust washer. It was an aftermarket one made from brass. The proper earlier steel one (one side plated brass and two tabs) hasn't been available for many years! While the aftermarket all brass one has the right i.d. they are very prone to failure. IMHO you either should get a later hub, or live with the later thrust washer and let it float on the early hub (not the greatest solution).

This is one of those items you should not pass up when you see a later one at a flea market if you have an early bike. It will be just a matter of time that you will need it.

And yes a new shock hub assembly solves a bunch of other problems!!!



#568863 - 10/23/14 7:32 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,753
shel Online content
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shel  Online Content
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Posts: 3,753
ohio
They say replacing the rubbers in a T150 is a real pain too. I didn't think so. I did it with a 12" 2x6, a hand full of dry wall screws, a double nutted bolt and a socket on a breaker bar.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#568868 - 10/23/14 9:07 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 62
MichaelBray Offline
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MichaelBray  Offline
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Posts: 62
NY - New York
I'm uptight about spending money I don't need to, so on the third try of heating it up to near red hot levels I was finally able to get those screws out. The rubbers were so worn they just fell out. The whole assembly was super wonky actually, in addition to the rubbers and the washer, everything that should have been tight was loose. Gotta really locktite against all that heat and pressure I guess. Or, just not wait 46 years to inspect

#568871 - 10/23/14 9:33 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,970
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,970
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote:
They say replacing the rubbers in a T150 is a real pain too. I didn't think so. I did it with a 12" 2x6, a hand full of dry wall screws, a double nutted bolt and a socket on a breaker bar.


Get some P-80 and you will be looking for more Trident rubbers to replace. This is what Keith Martin of Big D did when he did his first T150 with P-80.


#568888 - 10/24/14 2:02 am Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Whilst your in there, get a new back plate and spider as these wear again teach other and generate a lot of wobble, then when refitting, use bolts that will go straight through the hub to the other side.

Re: triumph and bsa clutches are the same. That they are not! They are similar as the basket is very much different, apart from having one row of teeth more than triumph, the back is dished where I believe the triumph is flat.


beerchug
#568904 - 10/24/14 9:40 am Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: MichaelBray]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
htown Online content
BritBike Forum member
htown  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,164
Magnolia, TX
Should have been clearer, the hubs and discs are interchangable between Triumph and BSA not the baskets. Time you add up the cost of a new spider, back plate, rubbers and bolts as individual parts you are probably getting close to the cost of new hub.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
2-1974 Norton Commandos
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
#568949 - 10/24/14 2:26 pm Re: Knocking noise from left side ... [Re: Allan Gill]  
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,861
DavidP Online content
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DavidP  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,861
Gnashville
Originally Posted By: Allan Gill

Re: triumph and bsa clutches are the same. That they are not! They are similar as the basket is very much different, apart from having one row of teeth more than triumph, the back is dished where I believe the triumph is flat.

When I bought a new hub it was listed as "T140." Same with the thrust washer I bought (got lucky, bronze on one side, steel on the other.)
I also bought a new nut and tab washer. BSA uses a larger nut with no tab washer, maybe that's why they tend to come loose. No problems so far.
BTW: I replaced the rubbers on my T150 once. At that time I had not heard of P-80. Dish soap and a rubber mallet did the trick.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
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