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#56358 - 08/16/07 8:59 am Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Angus Campbell Offline
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Angus Campbell  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Scotland
Help! My Ariel Arrow 250 twin 2-stroke 1964 has developed a serious problem. It starts OK then runs fine for about 2 minutes then cuts out. Won't start again until cold then same thing happens again. Not fuel, probably electrics. although I have swapped over the coils, points and condensors so it should still have one side working. Has anyone got a probable cause/solution for thi fault? I really don't want to change to electronic ignition if I don't have to.

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#56359 - 08/16/07 9:15 am Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
beltdriveman Offline
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beltdriveman  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 706
Have you tried, as soon as it stops, checking with a voltmeter to see if volts are reaching the points???It could be a dicky igniinion switch or crappy earth connection or something equally as silly.

#56360 - 08/16/07 5:35 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
andrewinpopayan Offline
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andrewinpopayan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
Calm down

When you say "cuts out" does it cut out like you switched the ignition off or does it fart and splutter to a halt?


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
#56361 - 08/16/07 6:40 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,092
Mike Muir Offline
Life member
Mike Muir  Offline

Life member

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,092
somewhere in the UK
Andrew has a thought there, might have a blockage in the fuel line and it is using what is in the float chamber for those 2 minutes! Once the motor is stopped the chamber refills and the bike will restart easily.


Mike, home is where we moor it.
#56362 - 08/16/07 7:24 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
andrewinpopayan Offline
BritBike Forum member
andrewinpopayan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
I can't remember if it's the ARROW or LEADER that has twin carbs. As a general measure, if a motor cuts like the ignition switch has been switched off it's USUALLY an electrical fault, If it farts and starts missing before dying, then is COULD be fuel.

Does it still have 6 volt Joe "Darkness" Lucas electrics and all the original wiring? Harness used to get pinched and cut where it passes thru the false tank to the steering head.

When was the last time that little gas tank was wrestled from under the seat and given a really good clean out?. All the filters, taps and lines.

I believe it has a single Monobloc, Don't go pull it off, monoblocks are easy to clean out "in situ" without provoking more problems.

More tests and information are needed. Owners who posses a multimeter AND can use it are generally easy to help with electrics.


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
#56363 - 08/16/07 8:17 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Tiger Offline
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Tiger  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,429
Melbourne Australia
Could be a fuel tank vent blockage, leave the filler cap off next time you run it to eliminate this possibility.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
#56364 - 08/18/07 3:38 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
CommandoRoadster Offline
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CommandoRoadster  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
The Valley of the Sun,Arizona,...
Two strokes with small pistons like to do the old stick & release trick. Engine heats,piston siezes.Engine cools,piston releases.

Just some more beef for the stew.

Cheers!
Bruce

#56365 - 08/18/07 6:10 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
andrewinpopayan Offline
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andrewinpopayan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
Like the "stone soup"? Why don't people reply and give up the final findings?


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
#56366 - 08/18/07 6:28 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
CommandoRoadster Offline
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CommandoRoadster  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
The Valley of the Sun,Arizona,...
It would be nice,wouldn't it Andy? Even if it's just to tell us we're bluddy idjits,and we can ram it where the sun don't shine!

And yes,probably just like stone soup.

Cheers!
Bruce

#56367 - 08/20/07 3:52 am Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
norbsa48503 Offline
BritBike Forum member
norbsa48503  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
Flint,Mich
Got a Puch 250 twinkle 69 1/2 model kid that sold it says "no spark". Pulled the exhaust and find them near plugged off with carbon and oil mix. Tripled the cost of the bike just getting this squared up. This bike had only 1900 miles showing I would be checking that. Hey we can always talk among ourselves think of the reading Angus is saving.


norbsa
1960 TR6
1963 Super Rocket
1965 650 Star
1966 441
1968 Thunderbolt
1969 Twinkle 250
1972 Fastback
1974 Roadster
1970 S.S
Way too many BSA's not named
http://decentcycles.com
#56368 - 08/20/07 12:22 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
andrewinpopayan Offline
BritBike Forum member
andrewinpopayan  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 804
Halifax, Butt end of Europe
2 strokes seem to enjoy a good thrashing, loosens up the crud in the pipes/silencers, leave a huge cloud of smoke behing them after a couple of miles of WOT. That Puch has probably been bimbled around town and over oiled if it's a petroiler.
I'da knocked off the real solid bits of crud, then found a 20 miles of freeway at 3AM to "evaporate / smoke up" the residue left in the pipes, unseen by the the envirogeeks. bigt

I never found anything that got carbon out of pipes and silencers as good as oxygen eek . Get the pipes off and using an oxy-acetyline set get a ring of carbon glowing red, then turn off the acetyline and open up the oxygen (plays hell with chrome though)


99% of carb problems are electrical.

1959 3TA

BMW R1150 Oilhead
#56369 - 08/22/07 6:16 am Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
CommandoRoadster Offline
BritBike Forum member
CommandoRoadster  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 274
The Valley of the Sun,Arizona,...
Back when I was about 15,a friends dad had a twingle stuck back in the end of his shed.It looked like probably an early 60s model,but I never knew for sure.The thing hadn't run for 10 or 15 years,at least.One time when we didn't have anything better to do,we dragged it out,and started checking it out. His dad said that it had two cylinders,but only one piston. We couldn't figure out how that could be possible,so we decided to tear the top end off,for a look-see.

Just to see if it were siezed,I guess,my friend gave it a kick,and it started!First kick,old gas,no choke,no throttle.In fact the throttle was stuck closed,and we couldn't even rev it. It just sat there and idled...ping-ping-pop-ping-pop- pop-ping-pop... like it would go on all night.

After about 10 minutes of this,we started looking for some way to shut it off.We couldn't find any kind of switch anywhere,and after shocking the crap out of ourselves trying to pull the plug wire off,one of us got the bright idea to put it in gear,and dump the clutch.

Eventually,we did pull the top end,and saw that,in fact,it had two pistons,but only one combustion chamber,and one crank throw,with the front rod,I think,forked off the rear. Well,you know how they are.

Weird machine,but it worked.
beerchug
Cheers!
Bruce

#56370 - 08/22/07 2:05 pm Re: Ariel Arrow two-stroke  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
norbsa48503 Offline
BritBike Forum member
norbsa48503  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,956
Flint,Mich
Yes, Twingles have built in rev limiter. The intake gases go into the side of the jug through a complex pathway coming out at the back of the back piston that piston feeds the front piston. This solved the low end torque and idle problems and protected them from misuse(over revs).


norbsa
1960 TR6
1963 Super Rocket
1965 650 Star
1966 441
1968 Thunderbolt
1969 Twinkle 250
1972 Fastback
1974 Roadster
1970 S.S
Way too many BSA's not named
http://decentcycles.com

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