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#559707 - 08/23/14 8:12 am Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled  
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singring Offline
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Saskatchewan, Canada
Up to two weeks ago my Lightning, with Boyer Mark III analog ignition, was running like a top. I left the bike sit over the two weeks I was away, and now it will not start. I have tried new fuel, new plugs gapped to .025, as per shop manual. I have removed the carbs and thoroughly cleaned them. Cylinder compression on both sides is strong. Both plugs ( Champion N3C)are giving strong spark. I even increased the gap on the old plugs to 3/16 inch and there is good spark. Both cylinders are getting fuel vapor from the carbs. As far as I can tell the engine has everything it needs to fire, but it will not. At best, I have had one backfire from one side, and when kicked over, the left exhaust blows out some smoke. The oil sump has been drained, and oil returned to the reservoir tank. All wiring on ignition appears good. I am thinking this is a timing issue, but how and why would the timing be so off since I garaged the bike two weeks ago, when it ran so well? As a last resort, I am going to remove Boyer rotor and test the magnet strength. If they are too weak to hold the rotor against a steel plate, I will replace it. I had that happen to my Commando when it would not spark advance. It ran terrible, but at least the Commando would fire. Once I replaced the Boyer rotor all was well again. I am completely baffled. Any advice is appreciated.

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#559708 - 08/23/14 8:35 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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scotland
Bad continuity between the magnets and the black box.

Probably around the stator plate, but we don't know what connections you have in circuit.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#559710 - 08/23/14 8:50 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: triton thrasher]  
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pushrod tom Offline
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new jersey usa
What's your battery voltage. Is the battery in tip top shape?

#559730 - 08/23/14 10:55 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: pushrod tom]  
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LarryLebel Offline
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Canada
I'm in the low voltage corner, as well. I have Wassell ignition in my B44R which normally starts up straight away. However, I have added signal lights that draw around 4 amps and if I inadvertantly leave them on (and don't notice) its much harder to start ... because the voltage is low. I believe the Boyer is even more sensitive to low voltage than the Wassell.

Last edited by LarryLebel; 08/23/14 10:57 am.
#559846 - 08/24/14 1:17 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: LarryLebel]  
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CaptainPugwash Offline
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My A50 with Boyer usually starts first kick hot or cold, if it takes two or three to start I know my voltage is a little low. If the voltage is less than 11v it is unlikely to start.

Dave

#559857 - 08/24/14 5:20 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Sydney Australia
The analogue Boyers originally had problems with the wires breaking away from the pick-up coils.
Solution was to drill a small hole in the backing plate and use a very small cable tie plus a dab of resin to secure it properly.
They had fixed this by the time the Mk III's turned up, most of the time.
The other problem that aflicts just about every Boyer is the use of crap 415V AC blue insulated crimp connectors because they are the right bullet size.
While this is true they are way way way way way too big for the size wire they are crimped on to and the crimps regularly fail.
This is oft intermittent and drived owners crazy trying to find whit one of the totally wrong connectors is not msking a good connection this time.
New out of the box if you hold any terminal in a pair of pilers and give them a sharp yank they will come strait off the cable.
What sort of idiot moron bastard decided that they could not afford 10p more for proper connectors on a $ 200 ignition unit should be put up against a wall and shot, after he has pushed everyones failed motorcycle home in the rain.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#559868 - 08/24/14 6:35 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: BSA_WM20
What sort of idiot moron bastard decided that they could not afford 10p more for proper connectors on a $ 200 ignition unit should be put up against a wall and shot, after he has pushed everyones failed motorcycle home in the rain.

Hear, hear. bigt

What's even more amazing/annoying is, to my certain knowledge, Bransden Electronics have been supplying the same terminals for over thirty years! eek Thirty-odd years ago, maybe proper 'M'-jaw crimpers were beyond the pocket and wit of most B-B buyers (although contemporary Rita buyers seem to have managed ok whistle ), but now ...? shocked

Regards,

#559887 - 08/24/14 9:13 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Richrd Online content
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Springfield Nebraska
You didn't mention how long the bike has had the Boyer, but I'm going off in a different direction. It has happened that the rotor bolt was a thread or two too long and would not clamp the rotor as tight as it should. the back fire what then shift the rotor and screw up the timing.

Long shot but I have seen it.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
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and the Snake Bike
#559905 - 08/24/14 12:06 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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singring Offline
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Saskatchewan, Canada
Battery being used is from my Goldwing, 12.78 volts as tested. Boyer has been in bike since I've bought it 5 years ago, but I would say it has been on the bike many years. Going to test the rotor for magnet strength today. Been thru the Boyer wire and connector issue before with my Commando, so wires and continuity has been checked OK.

#559907 - 08/24/14 12:31 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: singring
was running like a top. I left the bike sit over the two weeks I was away, and now it will not start.
I just noticed this thread and am surprised no one has mentioned fuel. Two weeks is enough time to have problems with the pilot jets if you left fuel in the bowls. If they are clogged the bike isn't going to start no matter how hard you kick it over, and nothing other than mechanically sticking a wire through the pilot jets is going to fix the problem. Actually, if you spray some starting fluid in the carb and it starts (but dies almost immediately), that's pretty strong evidence you're facing a carb, not an electrical, issue.

Normally I suspect electrical problems when there are problems with making a bike run, but this sounds all too much like a pilot jet issue. I have just such an issue on one of my non-British bikes right now but I've been putting off dealing with it because it's so hard to get to its needle jet. That bike sat for a few weeks and will start (thanks to an electrical starter) using spray starting fluid, and will continue to run if held at a few thousand rpm, but will die if the rpms drop too far.

I know better than not to drain fuel if the bike is going to sit for even a few days but I stupidly didn't take the time to drain the bowl because I was too busy to take the two minutes. Now I face spending at least an hour. Sigh...

#559985 - 08/24/14 9:42 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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Mr Mike Offline
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I never drain the fuel(a PITA) and sometimes it is 6 months before a bike gets started. My A65 always starts but I do occasionally run that #78 drill bit thru the pilot circuit (carbs still on bike) and follow that up with some carb cleaner and compressed air. The seems to solve the problems inherent with ethanol laced fuel. On all my other intermittent use engines I use non ethanol gas...only. Even with clogged pilot circuits the A65 can be started with a little crack of the throttle. The twins are more forgiving...not so with the singles though....the pilot circuit must me clean

Mr Mike

Last edited by Mr Mike; 08/24/14 9:44 pm.
#560078 - 08/25/14 11:04 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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Alex Offline
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I agree with mike. A clogged pilot will not keep a twin from starting.

I'm in the electrical camp.

Get a strobe light and make like you're timing the bike. Have someone kick the bike with the plugs out but grounded out and the strobe light hooked up. With a couple of revs you should see the timing mark reasonable close to the pointer when it sparks.

More likely, though, there is a bad connection somewhere. Turn the ignition on and connect a plug to one of the leads. Have someone watch the plug while you start wiggling connections. A bad connection will often trigger the Boyer.

More than once have I had a seat pan cause a short or bad connection where everything was fine until you got on the bike or went over a bump. I have also had the clutch lever under the outer timing cover short out poorly wired trigger wires from the Boyer. This stuff can be tough to track down but if you systematically start plugging away you will find it.

Good luck.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#560086 - 08/25/14 12:18 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: Alex]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: Alex
Get a strobe light and make like you're timing the bike. Have someone kick the bike with the plugs out but grounded out and the strobe light hooked up. With a couple of revs you should see the timing mark reasonable close to the pointer when it sparks.

Hmmm ...

Fixed and moving marks should coincide at full advance - about 5,000 rpm. Kicking the bike over, the spark timing should be well-retarded, so I wouldn't expect to see the strobe flash anywhere near the full-advance mark?

Many years ago, I tried this suggestion with a Rita and managed to confuse myself with the lack of a visible moving mark ... 'til the penny dropped with a dull thud.

Hth.

Regards,

#560097 - 08/25/14 1:04 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: Alex]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: Alex
A clogged pilot will not keep a twin from starting.

I'm in the electrical camp.
Eighty percent of the time I'm also in the electrical camp, but this one smells like fuel. As for singles vs. twins, currently my Honda single won't start or idle (but will run at elevated rpm) after having left fuel in it for a few weeks, and several years ago I had the identical problem with my older, carbureted Ducati twin (you would think I would have learned from that experience...).

It certainly might be electrical, but a few minutes draining the float bowls of whatever is in them now and cleaning the pilot jets could pay big dividends.

Note, each time a cylinder fires it burns the equivalent of only a small drop of fuel. If the bike sat for a few weeks a significant fraction of the easy-starting volatiles evaporates. Topping up the fuel tank with new gasoline, or even draining the tank and refilling with new fuel, won't necessarily solve a hard-starting problem. If, say, after a few weeks the evaporated volatiles left the carburetor bowls 3/4 full, opening the petcock replaces only the missing 1/4 volume. That means the bowls now only have ~1/4 of the volatiles they "should" have to make starting easier. If the ignition system was marginal in any way, it still will be hard to start. This is why I suggest draining the float bowls, so the carburetors will have the full 100% dose of volatiles the bike craves.

#560102 - 08/25/14 1:36 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: Stuart]  
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MarcB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Fixed and moving marks should coincide at full advance - about 5,000 rpm. Kicking the bike over, the spark timing should be well-retarded, so I wouldn't expect to see the strobe flash anywhere near the full-advance mark?


Hmm, I would expect closer to 3000 rpm for full advance...

Do you have a friend with a very fast leg?

#560103 - 08/25/14 1:41 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


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a. The pilot jets blocking up has been around as long as we have had carburetors. The original #78 pilot cleaning drills were sent to dealers in the early 1970's. This isn't a new problem, but one that has been with us a long time.

The pilot jet is VERY important in starting. It supplies most of the fuel, and without the excess amount needed for starting and remaining running until the engine warms, it is essential.

While at idle, throttle closed, the vacuum difference between the two transfer holes into the venturi the inner most (smallest) hole supplies all the fuel. The outer most hole (larger) delivers air to the pilot circuit to pre-mix with fuel below the transfer holes. Once you lift the slide the vacuum signal balances between the two holes and they BOTH deliver fuel.

If the pilot jet is blocked there is no fuel for either of these important fuel circuits to deliver fuel. Because the air velocity is low at small throttle openings the vacuum signal is not strong enough to pull enough fuel through the needle jet to support combustion.

b. With any electronic ignition you cannot assume the condition of a battery using a no-load voltage test. 12.78 volts with no-load on the battery is a meaningless test. Interesting, but meaningless. Because battery voltage, relative to battery condition, is so important with any EI some form of load test must be performed on the battery.

c. One must verify that the voltage getting to the box is the same as the voltage measured across the battery. Voltage drops, or voltage losses, can only be measured if there is a load on the circuit you are measuring. Because their is no-load in the EI circuit when the box doesn't have a trigger signal, any voltage measurement at the box will be meaningless.

To put a load on the circuit that is positive ground you can take the feed wire normally attached to the box's white wire and connect it to the negative terminal of the coil where the box's black wire is attached. This would be the same condition where on a points bike where one of the points was closed. In the short term it will not hurt anything, just don't go away and leave it connected. This creates a load on the circuit. Now measure the voltage across the battery and from the battery positive terminal to the where you attached the wire to the coil. The voltage should be the same. Measure the voltage between the coils and the voltage will halve and now where the last coil is grounded and the voltage should be 0. If there is any voltage at the ground you have a high resistance ground circuit and not a good ground!

If it is a negative ground system just jump the coil terminal where the black wire is attached to ground. Now you can take your measurements.

d. I don't care what type of connector you are using, including some forms of soldering, connections can go high resistance for many reasons. The main one with these ignitions are caused by corrosion and the ignition pick-up wires, which handle very small voltages, are most prone to corrosion failure. Often it is a simple matter of pulling all of teh connections apart and reassembling them to establish a good connection.

e. I have been using those much aligned by the "experts" connectors supplied by Boyer for 30 years. This includes many set-ups used for racing. I have yet to have a failure related to them. I see a lot of Boyers and amazed at the "better" terminals used because someone's committee told them the Boyer connectors are trash. Just because someone doesn't have the proper tools to install Boyer terminals doesn't mean he is going to have the tools to install another. The failures I see are nearly entirely due to workmanship, not any of the connectors themselves. While it is nice to have the proper crimping tool for the Boyer connector a proper double crimping of the connector can be done with one of the cheap connector tools. One just have to remember that you have to crimp the plastic over the metal connector as well as the plastic over the wire's insulation to supply a strain relief. Further strain relief can be used by putting a short piece of shrink wrap over the connector.


#560104 - 08/25/14 1:42 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


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Quote:
Hmm, I would expect closer to 3000 rpm for full advance...


No, full advance isn't reached until approx. 5,000 rpm!


#560119 - 08/25/14 3:39 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: Stuart]  
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Alex Offline
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Alex  Offline

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Seattle
Originally Posted By: Stuart
Hi,

Originally Posted By: Alex
Get a strobe light and make like you're timing the bike. Have someone kick the bike with the plugs out but grounded out and the strobe light hooked up. With a couple of revs you should see the timing mark reasonable close to the pointer when it sparks.

Hmmm ...

Fixed and moving marks should coincide at full advance - about 5,000 rpm. Kicking the bike over, the spark timing should be well-retarded, so I wouldn't expect to see the strobe flash anywhere near the full-advance mark?

Many years ago, I tried this suggestion with a Rita and managed to confuse myself with the lack of a visible moving mark ... 'til the penny dropped with a dull thud.

Hth.

Regards,


Sorry you got confused but don't worry it eventually happens to all of us. We're not getting any younger you know.

I suppose I should have qualified "reasonably" if you're picking at nits. I am in no way suggesting you time your ignition in this manner. Just a sanity check. If a rotor has come loose or something worse happening with the ignition you'll be off by more than 1/8 rev. If you're within that it will probably at least fire or kick back. If you want to get a little closer you can also mark the rotor with a sharpie 25 degrees or about 9/16" retarded (clockwise) from the full advance mark.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#560197 - 08/26/14 2:15 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: John Healy]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi John,

Originally Posted By: John Healy
those much aligned by the "experts" connectors supplied by Boyer
I have yet to have a failure related to them.

Well, lucky old you. But, once again, it isn't any "committee" that tells me they're "trash", it's good old several decades of personal, first-hand experience of fixing other people's cock-ups, and not just on B-B ignitions - no-one has to be an "expert" to work that out.

Originally Posted By: John Healy
Just because someone doesn't have the proper tools to install Boyer terminals doesn't mean he is going to have the tools to install another.

So it's ok to do fasteners up with two pairs of pliers? Or the owner should buy some proper wrenches?

Or a carburettor jet is ok because it looks ok? Or the owner should really buy pin gauges or new jets from AMAL?

Or someone should troubleshoot electrics without a cheap multimeter?

My first pair of 'M'-jaw crimpers cost me 8 - about $12/$13 at today's exchange rate; despite over thirty years of inflation, they cost about the same today.

Originally Posted By: John Healy
The failures I see are nearly entirely due to workmanship,

Well, yes. But the design of the connector does not permit subsequent inspection to see if the electrical connection has been made and made well. Otoh, if you use an uninsulated terminal crimped by 'M'-shaped cut-outs, a) the common Mk.1 human eyeball and brain can tell if the crimp has been made well and b) the separate translucent insulation permits some subsequent inspection but can be temporarily moved if more-detailed inspection is required at any time.

Originally Posted By: John Healy
Further strain relief can be used by putting a short piece of shrink wrap over the connector.

So, having done a crimp you can't inspect, you should bodge a poor design even more? shocked

With respect, the last paragraph of your post smacks of the attitude of the old British motorcycle industry. Your experience is invaluable but why can't you accept that others might have different - and well-backed-up - experience?

Regards,

#560223 - 08/26/14 9:10 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
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John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


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Quote:
Your experience is invaluable but why can't you accept that others might have different - and well-backed-up - experience?


Sigh... we have been here way too many times. And like you my OPINION hasn't changed.

I feel this way, because I have tested many hundreds of EI ignitions here over the past 30 years. I to have well backed up experience. I see first hand what happens when someone listens to this or that "committee" and replaces the supplied connections. They often do this without any understanding of how, or have the tools, or skills, to do the job right. It is the rare exception that I get an EI to test where new, committee approved, connectors have been selected, or installed, with any thought or workmanship.

It is this same customer who replaces the mixed male and female connectors on the box with all the same, all male or all female. This often the same customer who then decides when the ignition doesn't work that the wires inside the box must be connected wrong and starts swapping the connections. The male and female connectors on the box are arranged so that the customer doesn't inadvertently make a connection that will short out the box.

The one thing I would like to see is gold plated connectors for the pick-up plate wires. Yes, I hear the expert yelling in the background - solder the connections, but inexperienced soldering has its own problems, and it makes diagnosing problems a real pain. And there are those experts, whom I agree with, who feel solder joints have no place on a vehicle.

Stuart, IMHO the overall problem isn't the connectors!



The terminal at the top is the one I see the most. The proper sized terminal is selected for the wire gage. But the single crimp is not fully over the metal connector and wire is not inserted into the insulation.

The next one down has while the wire pushed into the connector properly the single crimp is still not fully on the metal part of the connector. There is a question as to whether it is actually securely gripping the bare part of the wire.

The next one down is done correctly. The wire is in the connector and the connector has been crimped in two areas. The main crimp is fully over the metal part of the terminal. The secondary crimp acts as a strain relief holding the wire by the insulation from pulling out of the terminal.

Bottom - The short bit of heat shrink acts as a seal against moisture and a further strain relief.

All this connection needs is a bit of anti-oxidant to seal any moisture from the open end of the connector.

Are there there other ways of doing this, yes. Are they better? That has a lot to do with the skill of the mechanic and the tools used.

Last edited by John Healy; 08/26/14 9:28 am.

#560239 - 08/26/14 11:17 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: John Healy]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Your experience is invaluable but why can't you accept that others might have different - and well-backed-up - experience?
Originally Posted By: John Healy
Are there there other ways of doing this, yes. Are they better? That has a lot to do with the skill of the mechanic and the tools used.
I've never used a Boyer so am agnostic on its specific connectors. However, I've seen a lot of home-made wiring and crimped-on connectors over the years. I even use a photo of an electronic ignition (it might even be a Boyer; I'll have to check when I get a chance later today) installed on a Vincent in a lecture I give on silly and idiotic things motorcyclists have done.

The problem a manufacturer faces isn't just choosing "the best" connector for a component, it's choosing a connector that will survive the "innovative" ways owners will install the component, many of which no sane person could have even thought of in advance. If a manufacturer provides something that could be installed two different ways, with crystal clear instructions on the right way, some large percentage of customers still will install it the wrong way.

The military has to deal with this and as a result mil-spec connectors are made so that it is 100% impossible for even the lowest IQ person, who also has a high level of initiative, to screw up. Unfortunately, making connectors idiot proof also makes them large, so they aren't appropriate for motorcycles.

#560266 - 08/26/14 4:04 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: Magnetoman]  
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quinten Online content
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On connections; is it connected ?

No, but really ...

I like the terminal-block pazon supplies on its stators better than ...

... and then Some have modified their boyers using small brass screws

#560322 - 08/26/14 9:46 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: John Healy]  
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Originally Posted By: John Healy
Are there there other ways of doing this, yes. Are they better? That has a lot to do with the skill of the mechanic and the tools used.

I offer as Exhibit A, Your Honor:



Here we see the installation on a motorcycle worth over $50k. "Let's see, I connected White to Black using Blue and Red connectors, and Brown to Red, then zip tied the rat's nest to my frame with some twine for good measure, and since it doesn't work the Boyer must be faulty so I'm sending it back for a refund!"

Actually, it did work. Or, at least it was in the parking lot at a rally, so it might have worked. I'm not sure. But, the important point is, clearly the connectors supplied by Boyer weren't up to this guy's standards, as evidenced by the fact he replaced them all.

#560326 - 08/26/14 10:27 pm Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,313
NickL Online content
BritBike Forum member
NickL  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,313
Aus
Just to add my tuppence worth.....most connectors used in the auto game these days have a prescribed number of operations as stated by manufacturers. In fact this holds true across industry as well.
Check out Amphenol, Pheonix, Weidmuller etc Deforming type connectors have a very small guaranteed number of operations.



#560359 - 08/27/14 3:40 am Re: Unable to start 1967 Lightning...baffled [Re: singring]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,294
Scotland
John, MM,

Thank you for taking the time to reply but, with respect, you miss my point in my previous post.

It isn't about making e.i. connections foolproof - I'm well-aware it isn't possible within the budgetary and physical constraints of selling e.i. for motorcycles to Joe Public. Nor is about out-thinking the ingenious or the unteachable.

What it's about is choosing a terminal type that, for the vast majority - whatever their level of individual experience - that can be taught, they can see how it should and can be done.

What's not possible to see now is how a contemporary Lucas Rita kit was presented. Like a B-B, the kit came with a mixture of already-crimped and loose terminals for the installer to crimp. The fundamental difference between a Rita and a B-B is the vast majority of the terminals supplied with a Rita required a crimper with the 'M'-shaped jaw cutouts and had separate moulded translucent insulation.

That didn't stop some attempting to fit the supplied terminals with other tools, or chopping off all the fitted terminals and squashing on red-, blue- and yellow-insulated terminals, which then could be connected incorrectly. The fundamental difference was, when I was asked for help, I could crimp the correct terminal with the widely-available correct tool and show the person what it should and could look like.

You cannot do that with the pre-insulated terminals. I've been told that there actually is a 'proper' tool, used in the aviation industry, for crimping those pre-insulated terminals correctly. I've never seen one; all I've ever seen are variations on a theme of squashing part of a terminal on to the wire; however they're installed, there isn't any connection to the wire except friction.

Whether any of 'em 'work' - as in make connections that still have negligible resistance over thirty years later - I've no idea. When I came to rewire my first bike, my experience already was the terminals supplied with a Lucas Rita made longer-lasting and less-troublesome connections than squash-on pre-insulated terminals. So the former's the example I followed and, as I say, the connections made in the winter of 1982/3 that are still in use still have negligible resistance.

Ime, there isn't a vehicle maker in the world that uses those red-, blue- and yellow-insulated squash-on terminals oe. A large variety of terminals are used but an awful lot of them crimp terminals to wire with 'M'-shaped cutouts in the tool jaws. When the Co-op were choosing an e.i. to fit oem, they chose Rita, not Boyer-Bransden.

Hth.

Regards,

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