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T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... #559645
08/22/14 8:56 pm
08/22/14 8:56 pm
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TN
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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first post here... been lurking a long time. yes... i know how to use the search function.

I recently acquired my Dads triumph tiger cub, its a T20M, all original including the tool kit... he got the bike new. Ive been working my way through it, re-building the carb, cleaning the tank, new fuel lines, oil, tires, tubes, etc. etc. it has not been started (to my knowledge) in 32 years.

I need a new coil but am having a hard time determining the year, the vin number is t20m 4540

any help appreciated, if pictures help just let me know.
-j

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Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559657
08/22/14 9:49 pm
08/22/14 9:49 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Welcome to BritBike beerchug

I believe you have a 1967 model.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Jon W. Whitley] #559670
08/23/14 1:01 am
08/23/14 1:01 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,664
Pacific northwest
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quinten Offline
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Pacific northwest
Definitely a 67

You can sample the tiger cub bible online , but it is worth buying a hard copy

http://books.google.com/books?id=kgwAYJQ...ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA

Does the bike still have the unregulated , battery free , 4 wire stator , ac wiring in place ?
If so there are modern equivalent coils available
.

Last edited by quinten; 08/23/14 1:07 am.
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559697
08/23/14 6:01 am
08/23/14 6:01 am
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Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559714
08/23/14 9:07 am
08/23/14 9:07 am
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Posts: 10
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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Thanks for the info guys. I was thinking it was a 66 or 67 but i couldn't seem to find anything to verify. I appreciate the help! Ive looked at the "tiger cub bible" but didn't know if it was worth spending the $ on, I'll order a copy today.

It still has the battery free system, I think that the stator has 5 wires but i need to check again. I would love to upgrade the electrical system if possible but that will be later down the road... 12v lights would be great. Any sudgestions for these parts?

just trying to get it up and running, hopefully i'll be able to spend some tim working on it over the weekend.
thanks

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559742
08/23/14 12:38 pm
08/23/14 12:38 pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 131
TN/VA/FL USA
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fried okra Offline
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If you are in middle TN area, Ray Corlew in Gallatin is a good Cub resource. Similar for Conard Shultz in Knoxville area.

Web search should be able to find them.

fried okra

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559746
08/23/14 1:14 pm
08/23/14 1:14 pm
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Some eBay offers for the bible are silly money

Afaik because it was out of print. But mike estal has produced a new run
I have his email if you need it. He has a register of cubs

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559775
08/23/14 3:13 pm
08/23/14 3:13 pm
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quinten Offline
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mikeestall@hotmail.com ... for a while Mike had some autographed copies of the TCB's latest pressing offered at the same price as retail ...
.

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559779
08/23/14 3:21 pm
08/23/14 3:21 pm
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quinten Offline
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Quote:
It still has the battery free system, I think that the stator has 5 wires but i need to check again. I would love to upgrade the electrical system if possible but that will be later down the road... 12v lights would be great. Any sudgestions for these parts?

Your current system is unregulated 6v A.C. ... called ET for energy transfer.
http://www.gabma.us/elec/ET_Ignitions.pdf
I believe , as you only have a single set of points , only 4 of the 5 wires are used .
Perhaps someone running Lucas ET on a single will chime in ? My 4 wire stator lives in a box , some day I may try and refit it .

2 of the stators-coils must be timed so that its 'peak ac waveform' happens when the points-open , easy peazy right ? No , on a t20 the stator is bolted to the primary cover and not the engine and the rotor must be properly keyed to the crank. Some people have mastered this process and love it .
The remaining 4 stator coils , on a separate ac circuit run the headlight ... I dont know which coils run the taillight.
One of these should work with your original stator
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emgo-Ignition-Co...dec&vxp=mtr

You can upgrade to any 2 or 3 wire Lucas 12 stator on the market , the bolt pattern is the same , but you will need to change the aau as the advance on the ET is only 5 ... or go pazon/Boyer
And add 12 volt coil and lights
... then as there is no battery-box , add a capacitor
.

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559825
08/23/14 9:36 pm
08/23/14 9:36 pm
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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cool thanks for the help, I ordered the "bible" i'll start sorting through it when it arrives. Thanks for the tip on the TN club also, i'll look those guys up!

quinten,

I'm following some of that, i looked at the link you posted... it seems a bit more complicated that i would have though. I guess to meet the min requirements for "light" it makes sense but aside from that... odd.... What is the "aau" and pazon/ Boyer... im pretty handy, but that is stuff is out of my wheel house.

suggestions on where to look for a diagram that depicts an updated 12v system?

Thanks for the info, extremely helpful!!
-j

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559853
08/24/14 4:35 am
08/24/14 4:35 am
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A au is auto advance unit.
This is the mechanical unit that has the points in it. They are opened and closed by a cam that rotates and small weights and springs cause the timing to adjust with engine speed.
Pazon/Boyer are two or several electronic ignition possibliities where the points , aau, and bob weights are replaced with a sensor that is magnetically triggered. This talks to a box under the seat that electronically adjusts the advance and retard.

I am unsure about EI on a single cylinder bike

There is also a unit that will take the points signal and use a black box to give a better spark ... Apparently

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559938
08/24/14 3:06 pm
08/24/14 3:06 pm
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Posts: 1,664
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quinten Offline
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Here is a better diagram for many , ET powered , single cylinder britbikes . Remember this is an AC system , dim lights , no battery , no rectifier , no regulator , no ignition key
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c58/dbeezer/ETDiagrams001.jpg

... as you can see , they have grounded the 5th coil wire that would power a second coil if used for a twin cylinder .
Read a little before going 12v , if all the parts are there to stay (ET) you may want to give it a go . ( what do you want the bike to do ? )

As for reading
rupert ratio for unit singles can be very helpful , its for BSA's but there is so much crossover that it works extremely well for triumph singles .

... and triumph tiger cub replacment parts , catalogue #1 , from engine #101 , September 1965 ... originals on fleabay , reprints too , from kim the CDman

...And buy simple proper set of whitworth box end wrenches
.

Last edited by quinten; 08/24/14 3:23 pm.
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559939
08/24/14 3:14 pm
08/24/14 3:14 pm
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Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559952
08/24/14 5:38 pm
08/24/14 5:38 pm
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Posts: 10
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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thanks for the info, I'm still sorting through everything and trying to wrap my head around this system.

you are correct, no battery, no rectifier, no reg... etc, etc. everything id there that it left the factory with. I'll defiantly give the stock system a go but I really like to have nice bright lights at night... and since the ignition system and the rest of the electrical system are tied together changing to 12v (seems) like a good idea. I mostly ride around town, but whenever i can i try to get out and cruise forest service roads... some times for a few days. Ive always switched everything to 12v and when possible added aux lights. I love driving at night, but i also love being able to see :-)

thanks for all the links, I'm working my way through everything and really appreciate the input, attached a picture of the bike below... [img]http://static.squarespace.com/static/509...JPG?format=750w[/img]

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #559967
08/24/14 7:21 pm
08/24/14 7:21 pm
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Posts: 10
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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@ anglobike thanks for the link!

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560035
08/25/14 5:34 am
08/25/14 5:34 am
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Join the cub forum
It's worth it- takes a bit of hassle as Steve the owner tries to keep control over spam so register and reply quickly
He's also fussy about picture size but hey, he pays for the site so it's his rules.

I would try to get the bike going but then switch to 12v

Over here cubs were common as 250cc was our learner limit for decades
That also means they got thrashed by non mechanically sensitive teenagers
I assume that the states was a bit different
Depends on whether you want to restore the bike or build a sympathetic trail bike

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: AngloBike] #560062
08/25/14 9:29 am
08/25/14 9:29 am
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,798
Bishop, Calif.
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A gentlemen is never seen motoring about after dark.

Joe Lucas


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560138
08/25/14 7:14 pm
08/25/14 7:14 pm
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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Sounds good, I'll check the club forum out, i've looked at it before but this one seems to have more traffic... regardless i'll shoot him an email.

I got the bike started today, after replacing the coil it fired on the first kick. lots of smoke, but it hasn't been started in over 30 yrs. It would not idle and had a very metallic sound (like maybe the valves were out of adjustment) I pulled the oil cap off and it seems to be pumping oil.... lights came on... it was wonderful to hear it wake from its long nap...

now to do some reading on valve adjustment, etc... etc.

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560149
08/25/14 8:36 pm
08/25/14 8:36 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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Lots of good info here. Do some reading before you get too far down the road.
http://www.gabma.us/page2.htm


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560164
08/25/14 9:42 pm
08/25/14 9:42 pm
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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@ desco thanks for the link, I've been reading through all the notes on the site, def a good resource.

acording to the manual i have it looks like the valves, "tappets" should be set at .25mm when at tdc. Should i use this measurement for both or are they different for intake and exhaust. its doesn't say...

thanks again for all the info!
-j

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560181
08/25/14 11:18 pm
08/25/14 11:18 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline

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Don't know. Never had a Cub, but it sounds way to big to me and mm doesn't sound right either.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560195
08/26/14 2:08 am
08/26/14 2:08 am
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australia
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0.25mm is 0.010" which is the standard T20 setting and these are notoriously noisy. As the T20M has the R cam, I would close them up to 0.002" inlet and 0.004" exhaust. Actually I just tighten until they just move very slightly, no need for feeler gauges!!
Mountain Cubs are great little bikes I wish I still had mine. Yours was probably made late 66/ early 67. You can get an entry from the despatch book (build books not around any more for these) from Mike estall or TOMCC or VMCC. This will confirm date.
Intersting that one of mine I found after sitting for over 20 years and started first kick on the ET setup!!

Last edited by tiger_cub; 08/26/14 2:10 am.

1970 TR6C
1970 TR6R
1974 T120RV
Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560205
08/26/14 6:09 am
08/26/14 6:09 am
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The cub site's traffic is variable but worth joining as 100% of the posts are cub related.
I use loads of BB's not just one

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560313
08/26/14 9:08 pm
08/26/14 9:08 pm
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Silent cyc Offline OP
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pulled the valve covers off today and to my surprise they were dead-on.... I'm sure that the carb is way out of adjustment as there is lots of smoke and it won't idle... but the noise that the engine makes is really strange.... very metallic sounding? is this normal...

Re: T20m Tiger Cub help... dads bike... [Re: Silent cyc] #560319
08/26/14 9:31 pm
08/26/14 9:31 pm
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Posts: 7,028
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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If you are not used to old British bikes, they can be quite loud mechanically as opposed to a Jap bike or what have you.

You say it is pumping oil, so to me that is a good sign !!


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

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