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Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #585949
02/16/15 2:29 pm
02/16/15 2:29 pm
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

Just to let you see the actual cluster here is a photo taken a few days back. http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/ecosse_lynx/media/5speedcluster_zps47bfd416.jpg.html

regards

John

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Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #585963
02/16/15 3:59 pm
02/16/15 3:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
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Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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If you have several bikes that shift "one down, three up," for safety reasons it would be good to have the option of the reversed cam plate for the rear-set shift lever, so down-shifting in an emergency can be done without having to think about it.

I have seen pictures of the aftermarket linkage to do this, and all look crude and "tacky."

For what this five-speed gear conversion will cost, It can't be that complicated to engineer a reversed shifter camplate for it. A conventional one has to be made, anyway.

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #585982
02/16/15 6:01 pm
02/16/15 6:01 pm
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Of all the upgrades and newer things a person could buy for their BSA these days, I have to say that to me, this is the most exciting thing I have seen.

While I would have to do some serious saving for one, I am definitely going to put it on my list of parts, etc., that I want or need to buy.

Thank you very much for the effort John !




Originally Posted By JER.Hill
Hi

Just to let you see the actual cluster here is a photo taken a few days back. http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/ecosse_lynx/media/5speedcluster_zps47bfd416.jpg.html

regards

John





Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #586000
02/16/15 7:35 pm
02/16/15 7:35 pm
Joined: Jul 2012
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Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

Thank you for your comments Jon, much appreciated.

Irish. What about going from right to left change as well! There are a number of well made linkages on the market, or you can simple build your own to change it to one up.
I'm trying to keep the costs down, building in a reverse pattern change is not just as simple as you might think and certainly for the time being one down four up is the way it shall be sold.

regards

John

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #586112
02/17/15 4:35 pm
02/17/15 4:35 pm
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netherlands
L
lemans Offline
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netherlands
agree with Jon W.H.

and it is on the list and had a refund from his Majesty tax department (nice chap)

however I can't fit my Newby dry belt clutch.

is there a possibility to adapt the clutch or the shaft?.

regards Anne

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648829
04/16/16 4:53 am
04/16/16 4:53 am
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,380
Bega NSW Australia
Mark Parker Offline
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Bega NSW Australia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K98jg7IoWJ8&feature=autoshare

What it's like. Not the best video. Although its just short shifting into 3rd 4th and 5th, if you keep power on through all the gears the excellent ratios put you right on the power and rocket you forward. 4th to 5th is closer than the old 3rd to 4th, I wondered about that, but its perfect, if 4th is not low enough just below it is 3rd.
The beautifully made cluster:


Assembled into the bearing carrier:



Really adding performance.


mark
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: Mark Parker] #648830
04/16/16 5:13 am
04/16/16 5:13 am
Joined: May 2004
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Sydney Australia
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Hells bells
there is not much mest between those slots.
Considering the problems with the early A 65 boxes requiring strengthening to prevent the slots separating I hope they got their metallurgy spot on.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648831
04/16/16 5:25 am
04/16/16 5:25 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,286
Scotland
kommando Online content
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CCM Britain know their stuff ref heat treatment and materials so I would not be concerned at all.

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648832
04/16/16 5:27 am
04/16/16 5:27 am
Joined: Apr 2005
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Bega NSW Australia
Mark Parker Offline
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Trevor the selector plate is stepped and quite thick where the tracks are, which may be the way strength was added.


mark
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648892
04/16/16 2:41 pm
04/16/16 2:41 pm
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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J
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

In answer to Anne's question. Sorry I missed your post. I'm fairly sure that an adaptor could be made to suite the Newby clutch, it would be a matter of talking to Newby, as this would possibly require new clutch centre, although I'm not to failure with the Newby clutch.

To answer trevor's question. There are a number of differences between the original selector plate and the 5 speed one.
a) thickness
b) heat treated
c) the dogs are back cut, therefore the gears keep themselves engaged, unlike the original which relied on the selectors and selector plate to keep the gears engaged.

hope this is of help

John

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648903
04/16/16 7:27 pm
04/16/16 7:27 pm
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Elburn, Ill. USA
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In other words, this is a fully syncromesh gearbox?

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #648928
04/17/16 12:07 am
04/17/16 12:07 am
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Bega NSW Australia
Mark Parker Offline
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No, it's constant mesh, the gears are always in mesh and slide to engage dogs to connect or disconnect them, determining which gears drive the output. On this cluster those engagement dogs are robust and dovetailed so when they are engaged they tend to hold themselves engaged.


mark
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649020
04/17/16 3:56 pm
04/17/16 3:56 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
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netherlands
L
lemans Offline
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netherlands
Hi John,

not to press you but when are you taking new orders for the 5-speed gearbox?.

regards Anne

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649063
04/18/16 6:19 am
04/18/16 6:19 am
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Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi Anne

I'll take names of those interested now. The earlier I have enough names to run a batch the earlier I can get a production slot with PES, who are always very busy. Its would probably be towards the end of the year before they would be ready, but I'd have a better Idea once I have some interest and can make a commitment.

I can send anyone wanting more information on the cluster if they email me on johnhill12@aol.com.

regards

John

Last edited by JER.Hill; 04/18/16 6:20 am.
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649065
04/18/16 6:58 am
04/18/16 6:58 am
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netherlands
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lemans Offline
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okay, one for me.

gearbox can be exchanged with the engine in frame, smile
I'll send you a set of newby clutch pictures as soon as possible

regards Anne

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649070
04/18/16 8:03 am
04/18/16 8:03 am
Joined: Jul 2012
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Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi Anne

Your name goes to the top of the list. Yes you can swap the clusters out with the engine in the frame. Look forward to seeing how the clutch centre works on the Newby clutch.
I know the Hayward clutch system uses the standard BSA centre, so that would just be a straight swap.

regards

John

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649202
04/19/16 8:56 am
04/19/16 8:56 am
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Sydney Australia
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So I presume you are going to try it out on the way to the ABR this year ?
We are riding down from Walla Walla Friday morning if you are interested.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649205
04/19/16 9:21 am
04/19/16 9:21 am
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,380
Bega NSW Australia
Mark Parker Offline
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My brother Paul sometimes goes on his A65. It would be fun to go some time.


mark
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: Mark Parker] #649377
04/20/16 8:15 am
04/20/16 8:15 am
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Sydney Australia
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40th anniversary this year and a Rick Strange memorial.
Could not think of a better reason to go.
So the A65 I have been seeing there in the same frame you are using is not you ?
Did you do this a coupe of times or are there other great minds out there ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649526
04/21/16 3:00 am
04/21/16 3:00 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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J
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

There is now two names on the list of those who have shown an interest in me making another batch of 5 speed gear clusters. You can either post your interest on here or email me on johnhill12@aol.com.

Shall update the numbers on here to keep everyone informed.

John

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649699
04/22/16 4:53 am
04/22/16 4:53 am
Joined: Apr 2016
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South of England
Skorpion Offline
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Hello all, I was reading Classic Racer issue 179 and came across this company:

http://novaracing.com/index.html

They are advertising an A65 gearbox and show an image of it in their advert, it`s a cassette type box and had me interested enough to give them a ring.
Turns out it`s a 5 speed unit that uses a selector drum instead of the old style selector cam plate design with it`s inherent weaknesses.
Apparently they have some prototypes out there being tested, interesting stuff they do if you take some time looking through their website. wink


Get out and ride it
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649705
04/22/16 6:45 am
04/22/16 6:45 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline OP
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi Skorpion

Yes, I'm aware of the Nova gear cluster. Would you care to enlighten us on the original cam plate design's "Inherent weaknesses". Perhaps some of these have been addressed in my cluster!

regards

John

Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649847
04/23/16 4:14 am
04/23/16 4:14 am
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,380
Bega NSW Australia
Mark Parker Offline
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I have the std primary with 21 front and 36 rear sprockets for final drive. So the gearing is very tall. The thing probably sounds a lot slower than it actually is. I think this illustrates just how nice these ratios are. Definitely made my BSA much more effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2YhbLMVdc&feature=youtu.be


mark
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649887
04/23/16 1:07 pm
04/23/16 1:07 pm
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6
South of England
Skorpion Offline
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Simply put it was ALWAYS weak because of the design, there wasn`t much meat on it in places and hardening `may` mean it`ll be embrittled too and more prone to stress fractures.
I had both a Lightning and a MkIV Spitfire, 66 model with twin GP carbs. The Spitfire broke it`s cam plate but I was pretty hard on it back then to be honest, it didn`t get an easy life. wink


Get out and ride it
Re: New 5 speed cluster for BSA A65 [Re: JER.Hill] #649890
04/23/16 1:46 pm
04/23/16 1:46 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,670
ca, us
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DMadigan Offline
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I could not find any reference to a five speed cluster for the A65 on the Nova site. I would be really interested in how they fit a drum in place of the camplate. Even if the drum were offset from the fork guide rod it could only be about 1/2" diameter which would make for extremely steep and narrow tracks. Then the selection mechanism would have to completely change.
The stock camplate was too soft which wore the points of the tracks and they had to add the stiffener plate on the backside to keep the tracks from spreading. They could have fixed that by making the camplate thicker and making the tracks blind if they had the tooling.

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