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Need info on TS Crank Bearings #553711
07/19/14 11:55 am
07/19/14 11:55 am
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
S
Smoedog Offline OP
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Smoedog  Offline OP
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S

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
So some of you may remember me talking about finding shavings and the noises my motor was making. Finally got back into it and found my TS crank bearing didn't want to live anymore. So my question is, what is the difference between the stock 50 dollar ball bearings and the 100 dollar roller bearing?

I'm not building a race bike, just something to ride back and forth to work. And seeing how I need to replace the clutch and some other various parts i;d like to keep the cost down.

And lastly Do i really need to use gaskets on the timing gear cover and the inner gearbox covers? Can I get away with RTV or do the gaskets need to be there for clearence?

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Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #553731
07/19/14 2:30 pm
07/19/14 2:30 pm
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 261
devon
K
kevin large Offline
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kevin large  Offline
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K

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 261
devon
you only want the roller on the drive side ball is fine on the timing side I have used no gaskets before and its been ok but the gaskets are cheap and available so I would recommend using them

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #553732
07/19/14 2:59 pm
07/19/14 2:59 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
what is the difference between the stock 50 dollar ball bearings and the 100 dollar roller bearing


I cannot control myself, sorry: About $50.00 and better used on things like new needle jets, oil seals, good gaskets, etc.

The roller will offer you no practical advantages.

John


Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #553884
07/20/14 11:20 am
07/20/14 11:20 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,113
Westminster, MD, USA
J
J. Charles Smith Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,113
Westminster, MD, USA
John, is there no advantage to the roller at all, or is it just that it's a waste of money on bikes ridden sanely? I was under the impression that the roller bearing allowed the crank to flex a tad rather than breaking on bikes used in anger.

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #553897
07/20/14 12:52 pm
07/20/14 12:52 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
I'm not building a race bike, just something to ride back and forth to work. And seeing how I need to replace the clutch and some other various parts i;d like to keep the cost down.


I am often guilty of responding without reading all of the proceeding posts. I think I got it right this time :bigt

The only practical advantage I see with a roller on the timing side on a daily rider is the roller collects less condensation when the bike is not stored properly. Up here in the Northeast the winter air can be quite humid. If the bike is stored in an area where the temperature changes condensation can collect in the T/S ball bearing and the resultant oxidation can lead to an early Spring bearing failure. But if the bike is stored on the side stand the D/S roller, with its side lip, can do the same thing. But this is another problem for a different conversation.

As far as double rollers extending the life of a Triumph crankshaft if used competitively I have plenty of broken Nourish 500 and 750 twin crankshafts, used in both ball - roller and both roller motors, to draw this into question. The last Nourish crankshaft I broke was in the 500 using two rollers.

As an anecdote in a conversation with Nourish he claims he sees more broken Triumph crankshafts with belt drives than chains... although not a scientific survey I found his observations.



Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #553916
07/20/14 2:53 pm
07/20/14 2:53 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 148
Pennsylvania, USA
C
cacinni Offline
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Pennsylvania, USA
I would like to take the conversation 1 step further, the drive side ball bearing should be a slip fit using a small hone, is the roller bearing on the timing side a slip fit also or press fit? Iam going to be doing bottom end 500 soon! Thanks!

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554044
07/21/14 8:44 am
07/21/14 8:44 am
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,251
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
I would like to take the conversation 1 step further, the drive side ball bearing should be a slip fit using a small hone,


As designed the drive side main bearing is a light press fit as should the timing side. The bearing's fitted running clearance is partially a function of this fit.


Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554705
07/24/14 6:44 pm
07/24/14 6:44 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
San Francisco Bay Area
M
MarksterTT Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
San Francisco Bay Area
Dang, another idea up in smoke, I also was led to believe that the late 3 pc. roller was the way to go for T140s, to replace the early failure prone ball. My project engine ('73 T140) has a t/s ball bearing with the race in pieces, so is there now a really good ball bearing replacement? Probably already know the answer but some times I need enlightening...Mark

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554707
07/24/14 7:09 pm
07/24/14 7:09 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,251
South cone
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reverb Offline
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,251
South cone
...so what s happen with the bulletins 14 and 15 from 1986?
B Jones stated that change one with C2 and the other C3 one ball one roller?

Thanks

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554812
07/25/14 1:17 pm
07/25/14 1:17 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
S
Smoedog Offline OP
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Smoedog  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
From what I have read the failures came from the spot welded bearing cages. once they went to riveted cages the failures stopped.

Seems like everyone has their own say on the subject. Asked my local mechanic who has been working and flat tracking these things for the past 50 years has never heard of going to a roller bearing.

I'm tired of looking at my bike in pieces and just want to ride lol

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554856
07/25/14 6:22 pm
07/25/14 6:22 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,113
Westminster, MD, USA
J
J. Charles Smith Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,113
Westminster, MD, USA
One of the local Triumph gurus with decades of racing and wrenching under his belt says he used to run ball bearings on both sides to reduce friction on his flat tracker!

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554924
07/25/14 11:56 pm
07/25/14 11:56 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
S
Smoedog Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Smoedog  Offline OP
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S

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 32
Little Rock AFB, AR
Holy mother of god, getting the crank and bearing out of the case kicked my ass. Luckily I have an oven in my shop for powdercoating, so I was baking the motor, beat on it with a sledge and some wood and might get 1/8th of a inch and back into the oven. She finally gave up and got the bearing swapped over. [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Tomorrow is the sludge trap, Don't know how to go about that since i dont have an impact screwdriver.

Re: Need info on TS Crank Bearings [Re: Smoedog] #554955
07/26/14 4:55 am
07/26/14 4:55 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
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dave jones Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,707
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Good that the bearing is a tight fit in the case!

Can you not get one of those cheap impact screwdrivers that you hit with a hammer? Don't forget to drill out the punch marks that lock it. I have to say I just gave mine to a good shop to do.

Dave


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