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Rating: 4
Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? #542969
05/13/14 8:18 pm
05/13/14 8:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
T120C Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
T120C  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
Ok guys, I hope this is not a dumb question, but I just can't figure it out... Been trying to, reading all the books, parts pages and online... So in this first pick, the seal that I am referring to is part number 44.. Some list it as a piston pressure relief, it is the same part number as a triumph cub fork seal..


This is primary side, where I think this thing would go, in the recess..


The seal with the typical inside wound spring looking band..



I have tried, and tried... ordered new ones and tried again but it just won't fit. I have ruined about 3 of these, but just can't seem to make it work. I can get one side started but that is it..


What am I missing here?? am I way, way off base in my thinking and interpretation of the parts book?? Oh yeah, 59 bonnie engine...

Thanks in advance, you all have been an amazing help in this long, long, long restoration!!! Thanks


Jack
1967 MGB Roadster..
1959 Bonnie
1967 Bonnie in disguise as a Trophy
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Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #542977
05/13/14 8:57 pm
05/13/14 8:57 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,199
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Offline

BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,199
Boston, Massachusetts
So if I read this right you are asking if the same seal (97-1168) used in late non-unit front forks is also used on the front engine sprocket. Yes, this is the case!
John


Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #542981
05/13/14 9:10 pm
05/13/14 9:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
T120C Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
T120C  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
the real question is, why won't this fit??


Jack
1967 MGB Roadster..
1959 Bonnie
1967 Bonnie in disguise as a Trophy
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #542983
05/13/14 9:34 pm
05/13/14 9:34 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,199
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Offline

BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,199
Boston, Massachusetts
What tool are you using? These seals are usually installed before the crankshaft is installed. Failing that you need to make a tool. The i.d. should be a slip fit on the crankshaft. This keeps the end of the tool square with the crankcase. The tool needs to be longer than the shaft so you can tap on the end with a hammer. The face of the tool should be slightly larger than than the o.d. of the seal.

A tool can be made from a couple of drill jig bushings which are a slip fit on the crankshaft and have a head larger than the seal.

You will never be successful trying to tap this seal in with a hammer and drift!


Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #543042
05/14/14 6:34 am
05/14/14 6:34 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
T120C Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
T120C  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
Thanks John, that's exactly what I needed to hear. Off to tool making!!! thanks again..


Jack
1967 MGB Roadster..
1959 Bonnie
1967 Bonnie in disguise as a Trophy
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #543060
05/14/14 9:07 am
05/14/14 9:07 am
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 113
Ontario Canada
B
Bob Buchanan Offline
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Bob Buchanan  Offline
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B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 113
Ontario Canada
Hi T120C:

While its no easier to install, seal should be installed with spring on primary side.( to aid crankcase breathing since 1958 ). Also removing sharp edge of hole with utility knife helps too.

Bob

Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #543061
05/14/14 9:09 am
05/14/14 9:09 am
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 194
bac o burk qld
dommie90 Offline
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dommie90  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 194
bac o burk qld
try a box spanner thats what i have usad in the past
baz
62 t/bird
61 dommie99ss
61 b441bsa
71 tr5t
71 commando dunstall rep.
guzzi breva
and other crap

Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: Bob Buchanan] #543068
05/14/14 10:38 am
05/14/14 10:38 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
T120C Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
T120C  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
Originally Posted By: Bob Buchanan
Hi T120C:

While its no easier to install, seal should be installed with spring on primary side.( to aid crankcase breathing since 1958 ). Also removing sharp edge of hole with utility knife helps too.

Bob


So Bob, you are saying install rubber side out?? if so I was thinking this totally wrong!!!


Jack
1967 MGB Roadster..
1959 Bonnie
1967 Bonnie in disguise as a Trophy
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #543110
05/14/14 2:50 pm
05/14/14 2:50 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,992
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,992
Maui Hawaii
I was gonna say something, but....
I've always installed them so that junk can't get IN the engine, not to seal oil inside. I've seen them both ways, and not sure if it makes a difference. After all, it took Triumph quite a few years before they decided it was a good idea. Early bikes don't have a seal at all.

I've always used a block of wood before the crank was installed, laid it flat across the seal and gave it a good whack. Dressing the edge of the hole is a good idea.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: T120C] #543119
05/14/14 3:44 pm
05/14/14 3:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
T120C Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
T120C  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 816
Central Virginia
Thanks Bill, I will see what I can do to make a suitable drift and put this seal in...

I appreciate all the help y'all


Jack
1967 MGB Roadster..
1959 Bonnie
1967 Bonnie in disguise as a Trophy
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: HawaiianTiger] #543132
05/14/14 4:37 pm
05/14/14 4:37 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,835
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Online content
BritBike Forum member
desco  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,835
Bishop, Calif.
Looks like a block of wood with the proper size hole drilled in it plus some P-80 would do the trick.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Triumph pre unit... stumped - oil seal crank? [Re: desco] #543258
05/15/14 3:44 am
05/15/14 3:44 am
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 561
Rotorua, New Zealand
'59 Bonnie Offline
BritBike Forum member
'59 Bonnie  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 561
Rotorua, New Zealand
Here are John Nelson pre unit service notes. I just quickly breezed over it. John makes no mention of the seal, maybe he installs it later. One interesting thing though is he talks a LOT about Loctite.








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