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#526294 - 02/03/14 6:13 pm emgo dual lead 12V coil  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 613
SEATTLE GS Offline
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SEATTLE GS  Offline
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Posts: 613
SEATTLE WA
for running a stock Sunday bike Triumph or Norton, has anyone used the Emgo dual lead 4 ohm coil with either points or Boyer? Is it a reliable coil? Do I need resistor caps for Boyer or other ignitions? The Emgos are small and cheap, available for about $25 but I am leery of the universal law "I get what I pay for". This is not for race application and high RPM. Better yet, would this coil be better than 40 year old Lucas coils that were never designed to handle a wasted spark ignition?

#526295 - 02/03/14 6:22 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,477
Richrd Online content
Richrd  Online Content


Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,477
Springfield Nebraska
I tried one on a a65 w/ Boyer. it is now either in the junk box or garbage. personally, I have never had good luck trying to run cheap ignition parts.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
#526299 - 02/03/14 6:37 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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SEATTLE GS Offline
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SEATTLE GS  Offline
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SEATTLE WA
I realize it sounds too good to be true. Can anybody suggest a good replacement for the Lucas coils?

I have been working with a 79 Bonnie with multiple problems. I fought the AmalMK2s with some success but now I have a chattering timing mark. I want to quickly bypass the stock coils and see if the timing mark steadies itself. I already tried replacing the sparkplug leads and cleaning all the connections. I even put on stock MK1 carbs with stock jetting just to rule those out. I REALLY do not want to replace the Boyer if I do not have to. I had one Boyer stop advancing last summer..very driveable under average conditions but suddenly the power flattened out. This one advances but the timing mark chatters

#526300 - 02/03/14 6:38 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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SEATTLE GS Offline
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SEATTLE GS  Offline
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SEATTLE WA
I realize it sounds too good to be true. Can anybody suggest a good replacement for the Lucas coils?

I have been working with a 79 Bonnie with multiple problems. I fought the AmalMK2s with some success but now I have a chattering timing mark. I want to quickly bypass the stock coils and see if the timing mark steadies itself. I already tried replacing the sparkplug leads and cleaning all the connections. I even put on stock MK1 carbs with stock jetting just to rule those out. I REALLY do not want to replace the Boyer if I do not have to. I had one Boyer stop advancing last summer..very driveable under average conditions but suddenly the power flattened out. This one advances but the timing mark chatters

#526309 - 02/03/14 7:11 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
Joined: Oct 2012
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Hillbilly bike  Online Content
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Running from demons in WNY
Take a look at Kawasaki dual lead coils for inline fours. They are about 4 ohms...They are available for about 50 bucks new on eBay.
There's no guarantee a $80 coil is any better than a $25 coil. But since your Lucas coils are 40 years old and if they still function, you might say they are good quality.


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#526317 - 02/03/14 7:54 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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NickL Online content
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NickL  Online Content
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Aus
Replacing the coils will not stop the timing mark 'chattering'

Check that the rotor is not loose in the taper or that the magnets are not loose or the coils have not broken away from the printed circuit on the stator plate, these are the things that will cause 'chatter'

two 6 volt PVL or Lucas coils in series totaling 4 ohms or thereabouts will give very good results on your ignition.
Pazon and Boyer do a dual coil which is suitable too. I have used an Emgo one and was ok too.

Nick



#526325 - 02/03/14 8:48 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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SEATTLE GS Offline
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SEATTLE GS  Offline
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SEATTLE WA
I worked on a friends Norton last summer and the timing mark was so erratic I could not time it. So i did two things at the same time. I changed the sparkplug leads and went after the timing chain, which was bow-string tight. I simply loosened the chain to where it should have been. The results were a dead steady timing mark. Which one solved the problem? I can't say for sure

#526329 - 02/03/14 9:04 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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NickL Online content
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NickL  Online Content
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Aus
The later digital type ignitions will pick up radiated EMI more readily so suppressed leads or plug caps are required. The old mk3/4 is not so susceptible to the noise.
The tight chain is just bad news in any case.

Nick



#526332 - 02/03/14 9:18 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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bsatrinor Offline
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bsatrinor  Offline
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staten island NYC
the emgo coil is excellent with the Boyer,,,,also had excellent results using a harley sportster coil[[ELECTRONIC COIL<<<NOT POINTS TYPE}}---still using it on my 64 bsa {20 YEARS} nice and small can be hidden especially on a bsa

#526522 - 02/05/14 10:11 am Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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GrandPaul Online content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Being that this is the competition forum section, the answer (in context of the forum section) should be a simple "no".

However, the OP mentioned a "stock Sunday bike", which in THAT context should return a simple "yes".

They're fine for normal riding. As to longevity, I'll get back to you in a few years...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#526537 - 02/05/14 11:53 am Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Ron - in California R.I.P.  Offline
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California
Well IF I owned a street twin, I would never use a single coil. Keep in mind you can "limp" to somewhere on one cylinder, should a coil fail. I have been with too many guys that had a coil failure, the guys with 2 coils did not have to abandon their bike... think about it..
Ron

#526563 - 02/05/14 2:03 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.]  
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Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
Originally Posted By: Ron - in California
Well IF I owned a street twin, I would never use a single coil. Keep in mind you can "limp" to somewhere on one cylinder, should a coil fail. I have been with too many guys that had a coil failure, the guys with 2 coils did not have to abandon their bike... think about it..
Ron

You better trade in the Goldstar for twin cylinder...
Or having two of anything doubles the risk of failure. grin


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
#526685 - 02/06/14 6:42 am Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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NickL Online content
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NickL  Online Content
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Aus
Hmmmmm......A 1000cc Goldie Twin That sounds like my sort of bike.

Nick



#526734 - 02/06/14 1:41 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: NickL]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Ron - in California R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

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California
Well, I have been known to help the twin guys out... heh. And at one time I dreamed of making a Goldie twin.. but that was just a dream.

Ron

#526756 - 02/06/14 3:55 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
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Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi,

As Nick says, even if one or both of the coils have a problem, they aren't the cause of the "chattering"; however, if you want to satisfy yourself, a $25 twin-lead coil is probably the cheapest 'substitution test' you'll get. bigt As to how long it'll last, you have a mixture of experience related here, and unfortunately there have been other threads where people have encountered twin-lead coils that can't take the heat of low-rpm long dwell times. frown

But:-

Originally Posted By: SEATTLE GS
40 year old Lucas coils

What's wrong with any 40 year old coil that still works? confused They aren't mechanical, so they don't have any wearing parts; they aren't magnetised, so they don't have magnetism to decay. What does for coils on Britbikes is either vibration - but, by 1979, had pretty much worked out how to insulate them - or ham-fisted f*ckwits doing up mounting clamps too tight and squeezing the case against the internal wire - but your bike doesn't have bolt-up clamps. bigt

Originally Posted By: SEATTLE GS
Lucas coils that were never designed to handle a wasted spark ignition?

confused Errrm ... which coils are "designed to handle a wasted spark ignition"? What's specifically necessary for a coil "designed to handle a wasted spark ignition"? Bearing in mind that Lucas designed the Rita electronic ignition just to replace points and a mechanical auto-advance unit; i.e. to work with the Lucas coils previously switched by the aforementioned points and mechanical aau? As did Ernie Bransden for Boyer. wink

. E.i. like the Lucas Rita and Boyer-Bransden switching multiple coils (so wasted-spark) first became available after-market in the late 1960's or early 1970's. So thousands and thousands of Britbikes ran about with wasted-spark e.i. firing standard, common-or-garden Lucas coils long before your bike was dug out of the ground as iron ore and bauxite. And many more thousands have done so since. In any event, what do you suppose a twin-lead coil does with the spark in the cylinder not under compression? smile

. Someone's already replaced the original Rita e.i. with a B-B. Ime, that can bring its own problems, especially if the B-B installer used the usually-supplied squash-on, fall-off bodger's terminals. frown Have you eliminated the possibility that simple poor electrical connections are causing the problem?

. Have you eliminated the possibility that the problem(s) lie(s) in either the supply cables and/or connections and/or the return cables, connections or switches?

Originally Posted By: SEATTLE GS
I REALLY do not want to replace the Boyer if I do not have to.

Bear in mind that the same John Healy that moderates the Triumph Board is authorised by Bransden to test, and replace if necessary, Boyer-Bransden parts. So why not ask his advice?

Hth.

Regards,

#526771 - 02/06/14 5:26 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: GrandPaul]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Allan Gill Offline
Allan Gill  Offline



Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,533
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted By: GrandPaul
Being that this is the competition forum section, the answer (in context of the forum section) should be a simple "no".

However, the OP mentioned a "stock Sunday bike", which in THAT context should return a simple "yes".

They're fine for normal iding. As to longevity, I'll get back to you in a few years...


This would be far better in the specific board, mc in general or triumph board.

Been using a Boyer duel coil for about 3 years. It sat on the shaft for 5 years prior and spent the last 12 months nearly sat in another box while I build the bike.

It's imperative that you use a good heat sink!!!

I started using mine as the HT leads which fitted great in my PVL coils, kept dancing out through vibration on my Wassel ones ( I went from 12v coils to 6v) I didn't want to spend 40 each for a PVL coil so I used the one I already had.

It is worth keeping a spare if you do a lot if touring, and they unbolt quickly from the heat sink.


In short it works great and hasn't given me any issues.


beerchug
#526831 - 02/07/14 2:44 am Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: Ron - in California R.I.P.]  
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Posts: 4,860
DavidP Offline
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DavidP  Offline

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Gnashville
Originally Posted By: Ron - in California
Well IF I owned a street twin, I would never use a single coil. Keep in mind you can "limp" to somewhere on one cylinder, should a coil fail. I have been with too many guys that had a coil failure, the guys with 2 coils did not have to abandon their bike... think about it..
Ron

Good point, Ron.
I had a Harley coil on mine until it failed and left me stranded. As Allan has pointed out, I really needed a heat sink, especially with the coil mounted under the seat.
Never had a 'normal' coil fail.
That said, I have had the dancing timing mark syndrome before. That was with a Sparx EI. That usually turned out to be caused by the goofy way they connect the trigger wires, they get loose all too easily.
Problems can also be caused by a duff regulator. Over voltage will drive the black box crazy.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
#526935 - 02/07/14 10:37 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
Ron - in California R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Ron - in California R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,875
California
So, I will add one more tidbit.. for those that run a twin plug head.. run TWO coils, do not run a twin out put coil. I know not many here understand Ohm's law.. but.. you cut the available output voltage in half that way. This is NOT the same as running on a twin with a wasted spark. The wasted spark side uses very little energy to fire when not under load (compression).

Ron

#527032 - 02/08/14 3:47 pm Re: emgo dual lead 12V coil [Re: SEATTLE GS]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,850
dave - NV Online content
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dave - NV  Online Content
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Elko, Nevada USA
I'll add a bit to Ron's advise... The reason for the issue with a dual output coil firing a pair of plugs in a dual plug head, is due to the fact these coils only have a single HV winding with a plug wire coming off each end of the winding.
In a twin with a dual output coil, one of the plugs is always firing on an exhaust stroke under no pressure, so the resistance to firing is nil and esentially a ground to the coil. Whereas with twin plugs firing at the same time in a cylinder, both plugs are under cylinder pressure causing a high(er) resistance to firing, thus the voltage is halved to each plug.
Make sense?


dave - NV

Moderated by  Allan Gill 


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