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#526068 - 02/02/14 4:14 pm B44 No Spark  
Joined: Jan 2014
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Brian L Offline
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Brian L  Offline
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Louisiana
Guys,

I picked up a 67 BSA Victor and have been struggling to get it started. It has a Boyer ignition system with a battery eliminator. I grounded the plug and can't see anything. I put a test light on the positive lead to the coil and to the Boyer system and I did see power cycling on and off as I kick started it. I tried a car coil I had handy and also did not see any spark. I questioning if the coil is bad and am unsure if the car coil would work. Any suggestions.

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#526114 - 02/02/14 7:52 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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LarryLebel Offline
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Canada
Check the resistance across the primary terminals with an ohm-meter. You should get 2 - 3 ohm. If infinite the coil is NFG. Check the resistance between the high voltage terminal and the positive primary terminal. The number should be high something like 6K ohm.

#526130 - 02/02/14 9:09 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Brian L Offline
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Brian L  Offline
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Louisiana
I checked the coil and had 4 ohms on the primary and 10k on the secondary. I also hooked it up to a spare battery and it sparked fine. The bike does not have a battery normally installed. It was removed and a Boyer power box was installed. I am wondering if it is a weak stator or if it needs battery to work.

#526131 - 02/02/14 9:14 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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LarryLebel Offline
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LarryLebel  Offline
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Canada
Maybe .... I know electronic ignitions don't work at all when the voltage falls below a certain level. You could probably temporarily wire up the Boyer to a battery.

#526392 - 02/04/14 9:42 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,479
Richrd Online content
Richrd  Online Content


Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,479
Springfield Nebraska
67's did not have a battery but came with et ignitions..

Maybe you or someone tried to convert it over and got the wrong parts?


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
#526406 - 02/04/14 11:59 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Steve Erickson Offline
Steve Erickson  Offline


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The Northwoods... Michigan
"67's did not have a battery but came with et ignitions."

Maybe... depends on which Victor. EA that's true, VR not true. It would help to clarify.

Either way, there has definitely been a conversion, as it has a Boyer. Question is, has it run with this setup before? If not, kinda need to start from scratch... what has been done, and to what bike?

For instance, if it was an ET, has the stator been switched out?

We probably should start with which model bike you have.

#526437 - 02/04/14 4:06 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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LarryLebel Offline
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Canada
here's what the owners manual says for the 67 B44VE Victor Enduro.

"These models are fitted with a modified form of the standard electrical equipment ..... and allows for the incorporation of a capacitor which enables the engine to run with or without a battery. Hence, for use in competitive events, the rider can remove the battery if he so desires. Suitable leads are provided for the addition of a capacitor.

The inclusion of a capacitor also makes the system suitable for emergency operation in the case of battery failure, since engines can be started without the battery and run as normal, with full use of the standard battery lighting.

In operation the energy pulses from the alternator are stored by the capacitor, to ensure that sufficient flows through the ignition coil at the moments the contact points open, thus ensuring adequate spark.

Before running the engine without the battery disconnected, it is essential that the battery negative(-) is bound up with insulating tape to prevent short-circuiting by contact with the frame of the machine, otherwise the capacitor will be ruined."

#526447 - 02/04/14 5:36 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: LarryLebel]  
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Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
That's an interesting one. There are actually 2 owners manuals for the 67's... the one you are quoting from is #4138, I don't know the publication date but it was obviously late in the model year. The earlier publication, #4132, explains the ET system, and is different from #4138 in this respect.

I have no idea why this explanation of a standard coil system is included for the Enduro models. I've never heard of any 67's built this way. It would be tough to do, as neither the E nor the EA models had any place to put a battery, due to the airbox arrangement.

Mighty big error for a misprint! Good thing the parts books don't read this way also.

Edit- I just looked at the owners manuals. This passage in the later 67 book, #4138, actually reads exactly the same as the 68, except that for 68 "Enduro" is changed to "Special". Also, the illustration of the actual bike in #4138 is the same as the 68 book, not the same as in #4132.

It looks as if the book came out so late that it is incorporating changes being made for 68, even though the moniker "Special" wasn't in use yet.

#526449 - 02/04/14 5:54 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Alex Offline
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Alex  Offline

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Seattle
Brian, it's hard to tell exactly what you have. In order for us to help we need to know:

Which Boyer devices do you have? Is it a power box with lighting delay and analog (micro mkIV) ignition?

What kind of alternator? How many wires are coming out of it? Two, three or five?


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#526488 - 02/04/14 10:44 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Brian L Offline
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Brian L  Offline
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Louisiana
It is a B44EA which has a two wire alternator. It has a Boyer power box connected to the alternator which feeds an Micro MK III ignition. It supposedly ran before I got it. I assumed it was not getting enough power and ordered a new high output stator/rotor from wassell. The coil worked fine with a battery. If that did not help, a battery was the next option. Any ideas.

#526504 - 02/05/14 4:39 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
Joined: Sep 2013
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quinten Online content
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quinten  Online Content
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Pacific northwest
Quote:
Maybe .... I know electronic ignitions don't work at all when the voltage falls below a certain level. You could probably temporarily wire up the Boyer to a battery

Yes ,
Eliminate the stator/rotor / regulator and kill switch from the equation ,
And Hook up a charged battery as a stable diagnostic voltage to the Boyer mark III and see if it will
Start ... then work backwards from there

#526512 - 02/05/14 7:03 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: quinten]  
Joined: Jan 2014
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Brian L Offline
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Brian L  Offline
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Louisiana
This model does not have a kill switch. Am I missing it?

#526534 - 02/05/14 11:39 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Alex Offline
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Alex  Offline

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Seattle
Ok, Brian now we know what we're working with.

Did you only test the coil with the battery or did you wire the battery into the system for your test? If you didn't do the latter, this is a good test. If the bike starts and runs, the ignition end of things is ok and your problem lies with either the battery eliminator or the alternator.

Incidentally: it is quite common for the capacitor inside the battery eliminator to fail. In this case a good-sized external capacitor can cure the problem.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#526575 - 02/05/14 3:06 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Alex]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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DavidP Offline
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DavidP  Offline

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Gnashville
Originally Posted By: Alex

Incidentally: it is quite common for the capacitor inside the battery eliminator to fail. In this case a good-sized external capacitor can cure the problem.

As long as the cap fails open-circuit the rest of the unit will function as a rectifier/regulator.
As Alex said, you might try a 4500-5000 micro Farad cap across the output.
You might also wish to connect a battery to start the engine and test your charging system.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
#526627 - 02/05/14 8:39 pm Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
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Brian L Offline
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Brian L  Offline
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Louisiana
Hooked up a battery to the existing circuit and got a nice blue spark as I kicked it over. I assume that makes it the power box or the alternator. Is there an easy check for these parts.

#526661 - 02/06/14 2:04 am Re: B44 No Spark [Re: Brian L]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Alex Offline
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Alex  Offline

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Posts: 7,812
Seattle
To check these the best wsy is to get the bike running with the battery connected. If the voltage at the battery increases to over 13V when the motor is revved, the charging system is wirking ok and the culprit is the aforementioned capacitor.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.

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