BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
JWood Auction JRC Engineering dealers JWood Auction
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
Ob1quixote
Ob1quixote
Charleston SC
Posts: 1,792
Joined: September 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
207 registered members (1xfatboy), 1,879 guests, and 582 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BosBSA, Ron 1973 TR7RV, barnett468, dohck4, Pascal Di Marco
10028 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Lannis 146
Stuart 63
Popular Topics(Views)
475,357 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,693
Posts634,978
Members10,028
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement #518969
12/16/13 8:40 am
12/16/13 8:40 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
I wanted to start a new topic since I'm right at the gearbox. In the other post, I mentioned I am replacing the gearbox mainshaft that has snapped at nut on the the kickstart side.

First question up for you lads.

I've removed the clutch drum, rotor, crank sprocket, clutch door, etc. Exposed is the mainshaft sprocket on the primary side, and I can re-open the outer gearbox cover to expose the inner cover.

My question is does the mainshaft sprocket have to be removed or can the mainshaft be pulled out after the gears have been removed? Reading the factory manual, it seemed so. But I wanted to ask first.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #518971
12/16/13 8:56 am
12/16/13 8:56 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
You can leave the sprocket and output sleeve gear in place.The mainshaft and layshaft will just slide out,with all the other gears and selector forks on them.

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #518973
12/16/13 9:02 am
12/16/13 9:02 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Thanks, Pete. I read that section about four times late last night wondering if I were reading it correctly.

The manual I have seems to be calling for indexing to be made in neutral. But I recall your earlier recommendation, it was to index in first or fifth.

More reading on part is in order, I'm certain. But it almost seemed as if the gears etc could be removed, in sequence, lain out in sequence, shaft removed, camplate quad remaining in place and - possibly - the plunder quad, the manual calls it (the big "foot" that changes gears", remaining in place.

As I say, more reading to do. But thank you, Pete!


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519042
12/16/13 5:25 pm
12/16/13 5:25 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
Have it in neutral to dismantle and assemble.Select 1st or 5th after that for indexing.
Once you've pulled the selector spindle clear of the case,you can move the selector forks away from the camplate and slide the lot out.Grab both shafts and selector forks,and slide the lot out as a unit with all gears attached.
Only the output sleeve gear will remain in there.

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519043
12/16/13 5:39 pm
12/16/13 5:39 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
I agree with Pete--ease out the selector fork shaft and then remove everything except the high gear as one unit.
Last one I rebuilt it was the middle of the summer.
All the garbage in the manuals about holding in place with a dab of grease was useless advice--the grease just ran away because it was hot.
To get the selector forks in the right position but held into the selector cam plate is not so easy.
What I did when the grease was not cooperating was to take a length of welding rod and turn a U at one end. The U end I then pushed through the spindle hole in the selector forks and the U at the end of the rod located in the housing at the far end of the box.
With the extra wiggling room because of the smaller diameter of the rod compared with the spindle you can fiddle the forks into the correct position. Then place a large screwdriver across the tops of the forks and lightly hold them in position.
Then gently ease out the welding rod and ease in the spindle.
Sounds worse than it is--and worked first time for me!
HTH

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519184
12/17/13 7:10 pm
12/17/13 7:10 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
I think if you practice a few times,you'll get it down to about 15 or 20 seconds to load an empty box with shafts gears and selectors and have the selector shaft in place.

You're then ready to index the quadrant and fit the inner cover.

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #519201
12/17/13 9:05 pm
12/17/13 9:05 pm
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 421
Western NY
P
Pete Suchawreck Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pete Suchawreck  Offline
BritBike Forum member
P
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 421
Western NY
It's not that bad Rich. Turning the rear wheel while shifting works well. Just keep an eye on the parts manual. Keeps everything in order. If it warms up I'm at replacing mine -maybe Christmas...

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519203
12/17/13 9:07 pm
12/17/13 9:07 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
What you lads are saying is very encouraging. I've simply been reading the manual through and through so I'll know what this is or that before I even see it.

Both of what you're saying sounds solid. I was thinking of a clothes hanger bent into a U at the end, T-man. If you think that works.

Pete, I think my biggest lack of understanding is the indexing. I under what it's for. But I'm not certain the step at which the selector quadrant (that big duck's foot that protrudes through the inner cover) goes into the box.

It looks to be behind the camplate, implying it goes in first. If it does, then the indexing becomes complicated, in my mind. You're to have the selectors in the correct position in the camplate when the entire shooting match goes back into the box?

I hope you'll forgive me for asking queries without having removed the inner cover. I'm trying to understand the workings, the procedure, the correct process, etc before I open her up. In addition, time in the day gets away before I can home to it. But this weekend, I'll be taking the inner cover off, good or bad.

I also appreciate you lads' patience.

Richard


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519218
12/17/13 10:48 pm
12/17/13 10:48 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Scratch part of the comment above about when and where the duck's foot (quadrant) goes back in. Looking at my own resto pics on the Member's Bike Projects, I see the selector quad is installed inside the inner cover.

So. With that in mind, the gears are indexed in say, 1st or 5th. The quandrant and cover are re-installed with the quadrant meshing with the camplate in the 1st or 5th (or whichever) position, if I'm understanding it correctly.

It made muchly sense when I saw the pic of my own making, no less, of the quadrant mounted in inner cover.

I think I have made progress, Watson!


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519227
12/18/13 12:10 am
12/18/13 12:10 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
You got it, Rich!

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519228
12/18/13 12:11 am
12/18/13 12:11 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
I think it will become very clear when you take the inner cover off.
HTH

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519264
12/18/13 9:25 am
12/18/13 9:25 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
I can say I agree, T-man. Once the inner cover's off, I'll understand much more. I'm hoping to make a go of it this afternoon, actually. At least open it to take pics, if nothing else.

I had been studying the pics in the manuals since the bike's in the shed, which was a long distance with the rain we've had over the past weekend.

But the quadrant is mounted inside the inner cover. I'd been studying the manuals to find out *where* it was installed, assuming it was installed behind the camplate. It reaches behind, it isn't installed back there.

I know. You lot are rolling your eyes. laughing I'm getting there. And again I appreciate the insight.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: Pete Suchawreck] #519265
12/18/13 9:30 am
12/18/13 9:30 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Originally Posted By: Pete Suchawreck
It's not that bad Rich. Turning the rear wheel while shifting works well. Just keep an eye on the parts manual. Keeps everything in order. If it warms up I'm at replacing mine -maybe Christmas...


Good luck on the weather, Pete. We're scheduled for 75 and cloudy Saturday. That may be my chance to at least study an open gearbox. Or maybe I can during a small bit of time off next week since I did hear my wife mention shopping Saturday.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519298
12/18/13 2:02 pm
12/18/13 2:02 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,257
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Online content

Life member
JubeePrince  Online Content

Life member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,257
Back on the mainland!
Rich -

You probably already have this thread in your colllection, but there's some good info here from John Healy and others...also a photo or two that may help:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=56877&page=2

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: Tridentman] #519338
12/18/13 8:19 pm
12/18/13 8:19 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,516
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
JBMorris Online content
BritBike Forum member
JBMorris  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,516
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Originally Posted By: Tridentman
I think it will become very clear when you take the inner cover off.
HTH


The 'Motor Plate' will have to come off first and that issue plagued me due to a 'captured and spinning bolt' syndrome on my old bird.

Right from the factory. .

Gotta love it:=))


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519386
12/19/13 10:06 am
12/19/13 10:06 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
JB, that engine plate and the oil junction block is exactly what kept me from getting at the inner cover in the few minutes I had last night. The junction block covers up that bolt securing the right side of the cover.

Steve, "collection" is right. I'm building all manner of instruction from the boards, and your addition is a very good one. I appreciate that. It's saved to favorites now.

At this point, once the cover is ready to be loosened, I'll mark first and fifth gear positions on the quad/inner cover, then remove it.

It may be this weekend before I can make another stab at it. We're closing out our Christmas articles, bowl game pieces at work, in addition to whatever "spot" news comes up.

We have 12 writers at the newspaper. But when it's fourth and long or first and 10, doesn't matter. They give me the ball and sit back and watch. Very frustrating at times.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519679
12/22/13 9:38 am
12/22/13 9:38 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Update: Mainshaft, layshaft, gears for each have been replaced along with selector forks located in the camplate.

I used the factory manual method of reassembly which is locating the mainshaft along with fourth gear first, then reassembling one gear/selector at a time.

I didn't beat Pete's record of 15 to 20 seconds for reassembly. But I was only off that mark by 20 minutes. smile

It was reassembled in neutrial, and has since been shifted by turning the camplate into first gear. It was rather satisfying watching the innards move.

Without sounding paranoid, I hope, is it that simple? Granted I haven't located the quadrant yet. And maybe that's my Waterloo. But of all the tasks to get to the reassembly, the rebuild was one of the easiest.

OK. Back at it to see if I can correctly install the quad/inner cover.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519683
12/22/13 10:38 am
12/22/13 10:38 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,494
UK Berks
A
AngloBike Online content
BritBike Forum member
AngloBike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,494
UK Berks
On mine, it was the inner cover that was the pig. I spent ages with trial and error (pre internet) and suddenly it clicked.

Way better than paying someone though

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519685
12/22/13 11:09 am
12/22/13 11:09 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Well done, Rich---you are on the home stretch now!
Just got to index the selector but I think you will be OK.
Best of luck!

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519688
12/22/13 11:31 am
12/22/13 11:31 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
@Anglo, you hit the nail on the head. I've spent thousands on a rebuild and then the main breaks off on the gearside nut. I debated spending another $6-800 to take the entire bike back to the shop 330 miles away or replace the main myself. Having done every job around the gearbox, I decided I would sort it myself. Leaning on you lads' knowledge very much, I must add.

I'm not discouraged at all, but the gearbox hasn't quite gotten to the point where it shifts into all gears properly. I'm certain it's the quadrant. I'll simply take it out and refit until it works.

@T-man, I appreciate the encouragement. Your kind words certainly have helped me to feel a bit more confident about the task, and now I'm imagining firing the engine up again. Something I haven't thought about for several weeks now.

OK. Let's try another quadrant location.... (it is marked for first and fifth but still off, apparently.)

Cheers lads!


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #519700
12/22/13 12:59 pm
12/22/13 12:59 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Latest update. Opened it back up, the forks are in place. I was suspicious of the first fork that went in having seated properly. It appears to be. The quadrant *seems* to be correct.

Is there a certain means by which I can test the gearbox other than the obvious installing the outer cover and changing gears with the shifter? Sort of a double safety check?


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #520135
12/25/13 12:56 pm
12/25/13 12:56 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Merry Christmas to everyone.

I should have taken pics of the process but the gearbox is back together, indexed, and changing into all gears with a satisfying "clunk."

For gearbox newbs like myself, I wanted to give a simple definition of "indexing," which is lining up the gears in their proper position for a "certain" position, ie first or fifth gear was recommended most. I went with first gear. Then when placing the inner cover back into its place, the quadrant must be lined up to "match" first gear.

To do this, make a mark on the inner cover that extends onto the quadrant, and this is done with the gearbox in your planned reassembly position - first or fifth gear. Upon reassembly, hold the quadrant with your finger as the inner cover is being slid home, matching the mark(s). You're done.

I have a theory as to why the mainshaft broke and it relates to the clutch nut. I'll post that up a bit later.


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #520196
12/25/13 10:55 pm
12/25/13 10:55 pm
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 421
Western NY
P
Pete Suchawreck Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pete Suchawreck  Offline
BritBike Forum member
P
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 421
Western NY
Huzzah!! T140 Rick rules!
My gearbox rebuilds were 15-20 times not seconds, tho I did get a bit faster... Good on ya, once you do it properly it's pretty simple. Going to Florida tomorrow so maybe when i get back- just too busy to play w/my babies.

Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #520305
12/26/13 7:12 pm
12/26/13 7:12 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
T140V-Rich  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Thanks, Pete. I appreciate it. I feel really good about the gearbox. Like you say, I wondered, actually, "Is that it?" smile

Have fun with your family and enjoy the babies. Are you driving or flying? If driving, you'll be passing within 40 miles of here. Flying might be a bit further. smile

Cheers mate. Appreciate the encouragement!


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Opening up the gearbox for mainshaft replacement [Re: T140V-Rich] #520318
12/26/13 8:30 pm
12/26/13 8:30 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,129
New Jersey USA
Well done, Rich---congratulations!
South Carolina now has a Triumph Gearbox Expert!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  John Healy 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1