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Odd Amal carbs #516817
11/30/13 1:01 pm
11/30/13 1:01 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline OP
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Running from demons in WNY
I lifted these photos with permission from another site. The photos were posted by a Triumph shop owner. he says this carb has an accelerator pump. Anyone know more about them?





I ride dinosaurs....
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Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #516836
11/30/13 4:00 pm
11/30/13 4:00 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
It does look like it has a pump. I have a small carb that says "AMAL" on one side & "Mikuni" on the other. I don't know what it was used on but it resembles '60s Mikunis but with a choke plate, which is missing. Cheers, Don.

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #516874
11/30/13 8:32 pm
11/30/13 8:32 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Online content

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BrizzoBrit  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 818
Brisbane, Australia

Mikuni produced AMAL carbs under licence.
e.g. below for a Mikuni version of a 276 used on early Jap race bikes. Well, Yamadoodles at least.

http://www.eBay.com/itm/YAMAHA-TD1-CARBUATORS-WITH-FLOATS-AMAL-MIKUNI-ahrma-vintage-collectable-roadrace-/261264838771?nma=true&si=2YIt0zlWFG7vtMWm9orAXnHxGoc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



http://www.eBay.com/itm/Yamaha-TD1C-1-27mm-Mikuni-AMAL-Carburettor-/301011099353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4615a8ded9&nma=true&si=2YIt0zlWFG7vtMWm9orAXnHxGoc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


They then made Mikuni badged version that was very similar. Used on the likes of my K****** A1R.


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: BrizzoBrit] #516898
12/01/13 2:28 am
12/01/13 2:28 am
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
Interesting thread here.
Got some others to add to it:
[ Hope this works.. ]
Notice this body seems to be sand cast? That little brass 'nut' has a screen in it


See there are no cavities at the flange junction? @ 29mm.


Idle mixture screw side


See that the bell-mouth inlet is matched to the opening of the carb, and is clamped in place, and the use of a very similar cap on top, as those fleabay AMAL-Mikuni carbs?


Notice the MUCH larger fuel inlets and outlets, and how they are screwed in place? 3/8" hose is needed, 1/4 diameter I.D.


Two screws per bowl cap, and tickler buttons


Single mounting point, holds rubber mounted float bowls





Wish I had another matching carb... I thought this set-up came from a TD1! I've had these for 25 years now...
I almost think/thought these float bowls were for alcohol usage...

All the internal parts are Mikuni.
I've had an AMAL standard float bowl, and a Del Orto float bowl, installed on this carb...

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #516934
12/01/13 10:18 am
12/01/13 10:18 am
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,205
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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John Healy  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,205
Boston, Massachusetts
The connection between Mikuni and AMAL go back to 1932. It is my understanding that it continued right through the development of the VM.


Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: John Healy] #516940
12/01/13 10:55 am
12/01/13 10:55 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Originally Posted By: John Healy
The connection between Mikuni and Amal go back to 1932.
The relationship between fuel flow rate and numbers stamped on Mikuni main jets is very similar but not quite identical. Flow rate depends on the viscosity and density of the fuel, and I believe the reason for the small difference is that Mikuni, who almost certainly would have used AMAL fuel calibration boards in their factory, simply used different fuel. That's all it would have taken to account for the fact these somewhat arbitrary numbers are nearly the same, but different (nb. arbitrary in the sense that the choice of pressure head for the tests is arbitrary).

I've probably written this before but, if so, it was long enough ago that I've forgotten it. The '392' on the side of the Mikuni/AMAL carburetor in the first post of this thread isn't a model number. I have a period Japanese-language brochure on these carburetors and I asked a visitor who was working with me at the time to translate something in it. In doing so he also pointed out that the numbers '3', '9', '2' when pronounced separately sound like 'mi', 'koo', 'nee'.

However, Mikuni's play on words, er, numbers is even more complicated. It turns out in Japanese the numbers used depends on just what is being counted. That is, completely different words are used for counting, say, eggs than are used for counting people. In order to sound like 'mi-koo-knee' two of the numbers in '392' come from one way of counting and the third comes from another. Apparently, though, if you are fluent in Japanese you immediately recognize what the 392 signifies despite this complexity.

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Magnetoman] #516951
12/01/13 12:22 pm
12/01/13 12:22 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
J in KC Offline
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J in KC  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
The early Japanese motorcycle industry relied heavily on copying British, German, and US designs, sometimes under license, sometimes not.

Interesting reading, Early Japanese Motorcycle History

TD1 Carbs

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #516962
12/01/13 1:32 pm
12/01/13 1:32 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Posts: 4,956
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
That's interesting. The Japanese number 3 is - San

Spelling may be wrong.
Ich 1
Ni- 2
San 3
She 4
Go 5
Ruckho 6
Can't remember 8
Ku 9
Ju 10

Nice story though


beerchug
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: J in KC] #516966
12/01/13 1:40 pm
12/01/13 1:40 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Originally Posted By: J in KC
The early Japanese motorcycle industry relied heavily on copying British, German, and US designs, sometimes under license, sometimes not.
The same can be said for the early British motorcycle industry, that relied heavily on copying Continental designs. The French deDion-Bouton engine got several British (and U.S.) manufacturers into business, some under license and some not. The design of Lucas and BTH (and others) rotating armature magnetos was copied directly from Bosch. The British BA thread system is a direct copy, with a trivial modification, of the Swiss Thury system. And so on.

For a manufacturer in any industry (or country) to launch itself fully formed with a truly innovative product is the exception rather than the rule. Much more common has been to start out copying something under license (or not), possibly with incremental improvements, and only after cash starts flowing to slowly evolve away from the original product.

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Allan Gill] #516967
12/01/13 1:43 pm
12/01/13 1:43 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Posts: 4,649
U.S.
Originally Posted By: Magnetoman
It turns out in Japanese the numbers used depends on just what is being counted. That is, completely different words are used for counting, say, eggs than are used for counting people.
Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
The Japanese number 3 is - San
See above.

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Magnetoman] #516973
12/01/13 2:55 pm
12/01/13 2:55 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline OP
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Hillbilly bike  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,938
Running from demons in WNY
O/T but interesting I think ; At the beginning of WW2 the Japanese had several air cooled radial aircraft engines of 1000-1800 HP . These were originally license built USA Pratt & Whitney and Wright designs reworked by the Japanese to suit their needs. As the war progressed they needed engines in the 2000-2500 HP class to keep pace with new designs from the USA. The Japanese,because of lack of materials and or engineering were never able to manufacture reliable high power engines.


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #516986
12/01/13 4:14 pm
12/01/13 4:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
J in KC Offline
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J in KC  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
Nakajima NK9H "Homare"



Nakajima HA-5 based on the Bristol "Jupiter"


Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Allan Gill] #517009
12/01/13 5:52 pm
12/01/13 5:52 pm
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 716
Out There!
N
Nick Offline
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Nick  Offline
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N

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 716
Out There!
Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
That's interesting. The Japanese number 3 is - San

Spelling may be wrong.
Ich 1
Ni- 2
San 3
She 4
Go 5
Ruckho 6
Can't remember 8
Ku 9
Ju 10

Nice story though


Actually, you're only partially correct. All Japanese characters have two readings, Chinese (on reading) and Japanese (kun reading). Your translations of the numbers are the kun readings. In on readings 392 translates as mi-ku-ni.

Nice try though.


When people who should have known better cautioned me about the dangers of motorcycle racing, I always told them that a fear of death is nothing more than a fear of life in disguise.
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Magnetoman] #517269
12/03/13 3:11 pm
12/03/13 3:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 259
FLOWERMOUND, TEXAS, 75022, USA
H
HUGOCT Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 259
FLOWERMOUND, TEXAS, 75022, USA
Rickman
Are the Mikuni and floats for sale?

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: HUGOCT] #517293
12/03/13 6:11 pm
12/03/13 6:11 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
HUGO,
I'd rather not.
I'd rather like to find a left side to match the carb.

If Chris finds he cannot get enough fuel to his new twin carb set-up, I'd like to be able to supply him with these large- flowing float bowls, if he needs remote float bowls...

Once I get my twin carb A10 running, I'd like to see if I need these for myself...

These are just too uncommon to lightly let go.... I've never seen anything else like them...

And, anything else I might buy, will cost LARGE dollars...
Brett
P.S. I wish someone would get me in contact with that "Yamanatic" fellow...

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #517300
12/03/13 7:02 pm
12/03/13 7:02 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 847
Edgewater, Md
B
Blown Income Offline

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Blown Income  Offline

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B

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 847
Edgewater, Md
Rickman,

Thanks for the offer. I have your head all cleaned up and just waiting on the correct pressure valve springs to show up and its going on the bike. I will let you know how it works out and then on to working on getting mine setup.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1970 Triumph TR6C
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Rickman] #735826
05/19/18 2:15 pm
05/19/18 2:15 pm
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK
A
analyse Offline
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analyse  Offline
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A

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK
Hi,

I know your posting is a few years old now, but could I ask if you still have the carburettor or the remote floats, and if so might you be willing to sell or swop them ? I ask as the carb actually looks to be a Suzuki item, and I'm seeking both carbs and float bowls for my genuine Suzuki TR250 race bike restoration. I currently have a pair of Yamaha TD1 remote float Carbs that are my 'best so far' option, but would be willing to swop these for Suzuki items if that helps. Best Regards, Howard.

Last edited by analyse; 05/19/18 2:15 pm.
Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Hillbilly bike] #735842
05/19/18 5:41 pm
05/19/18 5:41 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,941
Ohio
Hello Howard,
Yes, I still have these.

No, I'm not really into them leaving yet.... Not unless I had some large incentive to let them go.

Chris is still running the A10, but I don't know for how long... And I still haven't finished my A10. These float bowls will fix any fuel flow problems I could ever encounter! .... As long as I could fit them to a proper height...
Brett

Re: Odd Amal carbs [Re: Rickman] #742718
07/21/18 11:55 pm
07/21/18 11:55 pm
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK
A
analyse Offline
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analyse  Offline
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A

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
Wakefield, West Yorkshire, UK
Hi Brett,

Understood and thanks - if you do decide to part with them, please give me first refusal - I'd be interested in the carb too as its a closer match to the Suzuki TR250 carb than the alternative genuine TD1 carbs I have.

Also, re. the floats, maybe Dellortos or even AMAL pre-Monobloc TT remotes would be a better option for your A10 ? I could maybe source these for you as a swop ?

Keep in touch.

Best Regards,

Howard.


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