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Conical hub front brake switch alternatives #513790
11/07/13 6:08 pm
11/07/13 6:08 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 76
Virginia US
R
RJG Offline OP
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RJG  Offline OP
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R
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 76
Virginia US
71/72 Conical front brake.

I would like to fit a front brake cable without the switch for better feel and action.

Any thoughts on an elegant alternative switch?

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Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513794
11/07/13 6:27 pm
11/07/13 6:27 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,835
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Online content
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desco  Online Content
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D
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,835
Bishop, Calif.
Up until 71/72 Triumphs had NO front brake switch. I had a new cable made that was much heavier and no switch. One of the easiest, cheapest things to do to improve the front brake.
It is highly unlikely that you will ever meet a police officer who is an expert on the 71/72 Triumph.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: desco] #513797
11/07/13 6:35 pm
11/07/13 6:35 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 76
Virginia US
R
RJG Offline OP
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RJG  Offline OP
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Posts: 76
Virginia US
I completely agree with you.

However, I would feel much happier with a front brake switch.....

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: desco] #513804
11/07/13 6:56 pm
11/07/13 6:56 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 158
New Brunswick, Canada.
Bruce Martin Offline
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Bruce Martin  Offline
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Posts: 158
New Brunswick, Canada.
Originally Posted By: desco
Up until 71/72 Triumphs had NO front brake switch.


My '70 Bonnie has a front brake switch. I believe they were introduced for the 1969 model year. I doubt that removing the switch will improve the brake feel any great amount - a solution looking for a problem.

Bruce


1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500
1970 Triumph Bonneville

Making the scene with the gasoline
Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513824
11/07/13 8:57 pm
11/07/13 8:57 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,197
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,197
Boston, Massachusetts
This might be begging the question, but have you adjusted the brake shoes?

Also, you can lengthen the brake cam arms or buy a pair.

With a good set of linings (from Vintage Brake), turned to the diameter of the drum and properly adjusted the 1971-72 brake is pretty darn good.


Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: Bruce Martin] #513839
11/08/13 1:04 am
11/08/13 1:04 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,174
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,174
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted By: Bruce Martin
Originally Posted By: desco
Up until 71/72 Triumphs had NO front brake switch.

My '70 Bonnie has a front brake switch. I believe they were introduced for the 1969 model year.

Fwiw, the earliest T150 parts book - for the earliest bikes built during what was the 1968 'season' for other models - doesn't show a switch but the later '69 books do.

Originally Posted By: Bruce Martin
I doubt that removing the switch will improve the brake feel any great amount - a solution looking for a problem.

My experience too. My T150 has a front brake switch and the pre-conical brake, the brake is fine ... 'til you start using the bike for track days, riding down mountains two-up, etc., etc. grin then it gets a bit ... uh ... overwhelmed ... whistle

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513846
11/08/13 2:35 am
11/08/13 2:35 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
I bought an after market front brake cable some years ago with an in cable switch which only made contact when the brake nearly blocked.

I ditched it and fabricated a "Radio Shack" micro switch on the handle.
I can post photo's when I found them (at work the photo sites are blocked).


Ger B

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513851
11/08/13 4:44 am
11/08/13 4:44 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,206
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

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Peter R  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,206
Netherlands
If you are looking for better font brake action, look for other things than the brake switch.
A cable without this switch will do nothing to improve braking.
Are you sure the brake shoes were adjusted correctly ?
As one poster above noted, longer brake cam arms for the brake plate are available, but in my opinion unneccesary for a good working brake.

Last edited by Peter R; 11/08/13 4:50 am.

Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513857
11/08/13 5:13 am
11/08/13 5:13 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,946
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Ger, I think this is the thread where you posted the pictures.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=259364&page=2

I say think, because the pics are no longer visible.


beerchug
Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513862
11/08/13 6:32 am
11/08/13 6:32 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,675
UK Berks
A
AngloBike Offline
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AngloBike  Offline
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UK Berks
Personally, I always use a touch of the back brake when using the front.
I know it doesn't answer the question, but any significant speed reduction normally needs the back as well.

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513868
11/08/13 7:04 am
11/08/13 7:04 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
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NL
Quote:
Ger, I think this is the thread

Correct.

I work at my clients now and see red crosses where I'd like to see photo's.
I can check later. If the links don't work any more I'll restore the pictures from my files.

And now fried cod. Every friday for the complete yard and offices. Nice client grin


Ger B

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513869
11/08/13 7:12 am
11/08/13 7:12 am
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 814
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Offline

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Posts: 814
Brisbane, Australia
Pictures also posted on this thread (which is definitely worth a read):

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthread...0042#Post500042

My thoughts are you dont want the switch.

Cheers


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513890
11/08/13 11:05 am
11/08/13 11:05 am
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 76
Virginia US
R
RJG Offline OP
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Virginia US
Thanks very much for all the replies.

I should have stated at the start that the brake is very powerful. It is completely standard. I was able to buy a few years ago a NOS hub and brake plate. With new shoes and adjusted as per book it worked and continues to work very well. By work well, I mean it is not short of power.

What It does not have is a nice feel.

There is a lot to think about in your responses, and a particular thank you for the microswitch pictures.

I will look at again it this weekend with the many suggestions in mind.

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513896
11/08/13 11:38 am
11/08/13 11:38 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
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Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
Quote:
Pictures also posted on this thread

Thanks for the find, Brizzo. You saved me some work.
bigt


Ger B

Re: Conical hub front brake switch alternatives [Re: RJG] #513954
11/08/13 4:52 pm
11/08/13 4:52 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 76
Virginia US
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RJG Offline OP
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RJG  Offline OP
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Posts: 76
Virginia US
A couple of people in their responses mentioned the earlier brake did not seem to suffer with the in line cable switch.

This made me think, so I had a good look at the set up on my bike - which I believe is completely stock.

To be clear on my complaints, the brake is very powerful, although sometimes it needs a couple of pulls to get it working.

Moving the brake lever slowly after it has sat for a few minutes, the following steps occur:-

1. Front cam lever moves, then
2. Outer cable compresses enough to
3. Move rear cam lever, then
4. Outer cable continues to compress
5. The slack around the switch is taken up
6. Both cam levers work as they should

If the brake is released, and then reapplied quickly, steps 2,4 and 5 are almost eliminated. Action is good and brake seems super powerful.

I surmise there are two reasons for the feel problem

1. The length of the cable. It is longer than the earlier brake cable as it needs to exit the rear cam lever parallel to the ground in order to keep things at 90 degrees. The additional length means the cable is both heavier and springier than the older brake. The increased weight means the cable falls under its own weight over time and pushes the rear cam forwards, and opens up a gap between the outer cable and the switch.
2. The lack of a "hard point". Interestingly on the older bike the outer cable bears on a hard point on the brake plate (rather than the rear cam lever), so the falling cable phenomenon goes away.

So I conclude I am stuck with both the above problems unless I can find an outer cable of infinite compression rigidity and zero weight. I believe I have exhausted the search for this. I can however remove the brake switch and eliminate step 5.

Does this make sense?


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