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A65 questions #510896
10/18/13 3:19 pm
10/18/13 3:19 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Natking  Offline OP
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Dom. Republic / Finland
Hello all, new proud BSA owner here!
I was at Barber Vintage show last weekend and I could not help my self when i saw this ''nice'' Chopper BSA.
So I end up to buing it and now I would need your help to identifie it.
Engine number is A65EC1658, but I can't see the frame number, and I dont wan't to ruin the nice 60's flake paintings, so that can wait till future when, of if I decide to paint it.

Last edited by Natking; 10/18/13 3:41 pm.

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Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510897
10/18/13 3:20 pm
10/18/13 3:20 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Natking  Offline OP
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Dom. Republic / Finland
Let's see if I manage to put a photo of it...

[Linked Image]


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510899
10/18/13 3:40 pm
10/18/13 3:40 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Natking  Offline OP
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Dom. Republic / Finland
[Linked Image]


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510905
10/18/13 4:53 pm
10/18/13 4:53 pm
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 134
Lancashire, England
H
Henry Greg Offline
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Lancashire, England
Hi, I believe that your engine may be an A65 Spitfire Hornet (with rev counter) possibly manufactured 1965 or 1966, however, it is only a guess.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510912
10/18/13 7:17 pm
10/18/13 7:17 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 52
south london
A
a65tbsa Offline
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south london
According to Roy Bacon restoration
It's a spitfire hornet with close ratio gear box 1964/5 ish

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510923
10/18/13 8:07 pm
10/18/13 8:07 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,349
Medford, Oregon
Gary E Offline
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No 'ish' about it. It is a '65 Spitfire Hornet engine. The '65 model year engines started at number 701.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510924
10/18/13 8:40 pm
10/18/13 8:40 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Natking  Offline OP
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Dom. Republic / Finland
Thank you all.
I was reading from here, or somewhere that ''C'' would mean that close ratio transmission.
Was Spitfire Hornet somekind of ''hiperf'' machine?
Alternator has 5 cables coming out, and there is no battery at the system, if that means anything.


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510937
10/18/13 10:34 pm
10/18/13 10:34 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,204
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Offline

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Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted by Natking
Was Spitfire Hornet somekind of ''hiperf'' machine?

Yes, it was BSA's off-road competition 650.

Originally Posted by Natking
Alternator has 5 cables coming out, and there is no battery at the system, if that means anything.

That would be the Energy Transfer alternator stator, which uses AC ignition coils and doesn't require a battery.
The chopper builders used to like batteryless systems, so using a Spitfire Hornet engine makes some sort of sense.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #510951
10/19/13 3:16 am
10/19/13 3:16 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,125
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
It would be interesting to see if the frame is original too. If it wasn't chopped it would be a rare beast.


beerchug
Re: A65 questions [Re: Allan Gill] #510957
10/19/13 4:52 am
10/19/13 4:52 am
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 134
Lancashire, England
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Henry Greg Offline
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Lancashire, England
Regarding the close ratio gear box, it may be worth investigating this more fully. I believe that the "C" after the A65 in the engine number refers to the engine having been built to accept a rev counter and the "c" which indicates it has a close ratio gear box is at the end of the engine number, for example A65C123456C. Looking at the photo of the engine, it does look as though there is a rev counter drive on the casing. However, I do agree that in Roy Bacons book BSA Twins & Triples, he does state that with regard to the engine number the letter "c" after the model indicates that it has a close ratio gearbox, so I may be wrong.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511030
10/19/13 1:49 pm
10/19/13 1:49 pm
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 759
Sacramento California
R
Rusty Goose Offline

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Sacramento California
It seems to methat the frame modification/chop job was done behind the motor as opposed to the neck. Like they choped off the swinging arm suspension bits and weldedona hard tail.


1967 A65 Lightning
1967 Moto Guzzi V7
1969 B44 Victor Special
1966? Royal Enfield Interceptor
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511040
10/19/13 2:38 pm
10/19/13 2:38 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,275
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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arkansas
I've always thought bikes like that look like crap with the engine tipped backwards. Not much to be done about that one, though.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511407
10/22/13 8:44 am
10/22/13 8:44 am
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Yep, I guess that was the design of the era?
Only what can be done is get a shorter tubes to frontend, but then the trail most likely gets out of the safe range.

BTW, how do I determinate is this 6 or 12v system? At manual it don't say much about it, and no mention at the wiring diagram.
I tried to look from the tail light, but the bulp was so exidated that I didn't get any numbers out of it.
I need to get a complete new ignition system, I guess most company's who advertise here can supply the parts?


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511425
10/22/13 10:26 am
10/22/13 10:26 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,275
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Can't see what its got on it for coils. I don't see any battery tray, don't see a capacitor either or regulator/rectifier........it must still have the ET ignition. Probably had 6 volt lights on it. You can get it going with the ET, but its fussy work. If you'll be converting it, a different alternator stator is the first thing you'll need.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511458
10/22/13 3:23 pm
10/22/13 3:23 pm
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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It dont have a battery. And the coils were at small pieces, seller told it's been at the barn since 1971.


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511462
10/22/13 3:35 pm
10/22/13 3:35 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 296
lancashire united kingdom
run990 Offline
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lancashire united kingdom
i would try to get the engine sitting level.there will be too much oil in the sump because of the lean,the gearbox oil level will be wrong as well.you could reduce the length of the rear lower tubes on the frame to raise the rear of the engine .or you could alter the wheel mounting points to raise the back end.it could have been laid up due to a simple (design fault) like this.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511476
10/22/13 6:06 pm
10/22/13 6:06 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,275
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Originally Posted by Natking
It dont have a battery. And the coils were at small pieces, seller told it's been at the barn since 1971.


Yes, that's the AC coils for ET ignition. They all fell apart. The Asian coils you can get now work well, but you have to be pretty interested in ET to get it working well and reliably. Converting to electronic ignition makes the most sense, in my opinion.

I kind of agree with run, but on the other hand it is kind of a time capsule example of what guys were building then.

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511556
10/23/13 9:52 am
10/23/13 9:52 am
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 7
Dom. Republic / Finland
Natking Offline OP
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Dom. Republic / Finland
My plan is keep it as it is, so much as possible, I will not move the engine nor chop the frame.
Like Leon said, it's a time capsule, of design of the era and the style. ;-)
At some point there will be lot of rechroming and painting, but now the next step is to get it running.

I guess smart thing is to convert it to the battery system right away, what I've been reading the light's are not best possible with this ET system.
So I need a new alternator, regulator, points or el.ignition system, coils?
Still wrestling with myself should I go with points or some electrical system, have few friens who have had problems with Boyer (for example).
And if one is available could buy a whole wiring harness?

Shopping list also includes new bearings to steering neck, new wheel bearings, and possible brake shoes. to start with.


Triumph 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in Sweden
BSA 650 Hippie Chopper, Made in California
Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511560
10/23/13 10:08 am
10/23/13 10:08 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 345
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Online content
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Posts: 345
Forfar, Scotland
Hi

You can get a new (modern) ET system and run without a battery, you still have the problem of the lights going down when the rev's go down. But since your going to have to buy a complete new alternator and the rest of the system it might not be a whole lot different in cost!

my tuppence worth

John

Re: A65 questions [Re: Natking] #511582
10/23/13 1:26 pm
10/23/13 1:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 296
lancashire united kingdom
run990 Offline
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lancashire united kingdom
i may be a bit older then you ,i have ridden some of the old school chops,even made a couple for my sins.if its for show purposes all well & good .however if you want to use it ,you will find ,not to put to fine a point on it absolutely crap to ride .no matter what anyone says unless a bespoke frame is used choppers dont work on the road.
i would check the bottom end before trying to start it ,the oil tank is lower than the rocker box & i bet there is no restrictor for return flow so the top end oil supply will be hit & miss.been there the custom tanks etc relied on the buyer being knowlegable about what they where doing


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