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'55 Triton Cafe Racer #491632
05/24/13 10:52 pm
05/24/13 10:52 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
I just purchased the basis of my next project, a Triton. The parts came as a "job lot", the main item is a wideline featherbed frame with a log book describing it as a "Triton". The other parts were collected by the previous owner who had raced the bike in the 1980's and was planning on rebuilding it as a road bike but never got round to completing this so decided to sell it. Some of the parts I will use, some I will not and some I am still deciding on.

The first thing I need to do is check out and verify that the frame is sound, it looks to be in pretty good condition but I am making up a few fixtures to use for a more detailed check of alignment. I'll then get the coating removed and check for cracks and defects in the welded connections.

I am planning to use a pre unit 650 twin engine in the bike which I still need to find together with a lot of other stuff, but at least it's a start.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
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Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #491650
05/25/13 2:43 am
05/25/13 2:43 am
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 176
MN
S
Shades34 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Shades34  Offline
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S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 176
MN
Great start, love the Dresda swingarm. Happy hunting and I hope to see progress on the build.

Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #491710
05/25/13 5:00 pm
05/25/13 5:00 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,153
Winona, MN
Swan Offline

BritBike Forum member
Swan  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,153
Winona, MN
Nice one and +1 to the Dresda swing arm. Tritons seem relatively simple, but there are many small details, alignment problems, shimming, parts to be fabricated etc and and a lot problem solving. I highly recommend doing a complete build first to be certain everything aligns and functions correctly, tear it down, paint or powdercoat and then rebuild it.

Keep the images coming, feel free to ask questions and I look forward to seeing your build.


1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #491712
05/25/13 5:05 pm
05/25/13 5:05 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,032
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,032
scotland
Look for cracks on the front downtubes, where the trouser plate gusset is welded to them.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #491827
05/26/13 9:33 pm
05/26/13 9:33 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...I made up a couple of fixtures to use while checking the alignment of the frame. I turned up 2 tapered bosses to match the angle of the taper roller bearing races fitted to the steering head, one of these was drilled to press fit on a straight length of 5/16" dia round bar, the other was drilled to be a close sliding fit on the round bar. This was assembled into the steering head and held by a small collar with a grub screw. The idea being that the round bar will project the centerline axis of the steering head. I also made a mandrel to fit the swinging arm pivot bolt plates, and mounted this between centers on my lathe. I could then check that the steering head was centered in the frame and perpendicular to the swing arm fulcrum by rotating the frame until the round bar from the steering head was vertical using my machinists level. I then set the frame level in the horizontal plane and checked alignment between each side using the level. I also measured the rake while the frame was in this position, which turned out to be 24 degrees using the upper frame tubes as a datum reference.

The good news is that the frame is true and aligned, and the rake seems to be ok, although I have found some conflicting information on what the rake should be, but 24 degrees seems to be normal and acceptable.

I then started to remove the coating using a chemical stripper.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #492025
05/28/13 2:24 pm
05/28/13 2:24 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 257
terra Australis
P
Pre Unit Offline
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Pre Unit  Offline
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P
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 257
terra Australis
Just Wonderin , as your well equiped , for ' special ' componentry . And 113 horsepower doesnt sound all bad .

http://www.imps4ever.info/specials/motorcycles.html#norton_commando

http://www.lpmcc.net/motor/bike_vpu4s.htm

The device is coventry climax derived Mundy Hansen design , so G.P. related , quite closely .

Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Pre Unit] #492033
05/28/13 2:54 pm
05/28/13 2:54 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 257
terra Australis
P
Pre Unit Offline
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Pre Unit  Offline
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P
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 257
terra Australis
http://liveimages.quicksales.com.au/quic...padcolor=ffffff

This later ran 45 webers , tourque converter , no trans .
One Gear only . Simplify & add lightness .

The Artical on it is on internet , somewhere .
Later write up in same mag gave spec above .

Pictured is turbo / Norton box at two x speed
to reduce tourque loading .

as does this

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Custom%20Bikes/Norton%20V8.jpg

could save a lot of parts chaseing if youre a bit adventureous .

Other way if theres the bucks , is find a original never dismantled unit twin ,
and fit componentry into pre unit cases . The dual row primary internals fit the swing arm
primary cases no bother . Though you can use the Ridgid Cases for better weight distribution & chain / sprocket placement . and look cooler .
must be dyno replacement 12 volt gubbins about these days .
Though 2CV alternators wernt unkown .

looks like youll have no bother makeing the plates & bracketry .

Last edited by Pre Unit; 05/28/13 3:08 pm.
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #492159
05/29/13 12:11 pm
05/29/13 12:11 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,756
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,756
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I have a paper pattern set for the pre-unit engine mounts that were sent to me before I decided to use a unit engine in my Triton.

I also have a spare set of unit engine mounts from 6160 T6 aluminum should you decide to change your mind...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #492325
05/30/13 7:27 pm
05/30/13 7:27 pm
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Scotland
A
al jam Offline
BritBike Forum member
al jam  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 77
Scotland
Exciting stuff!
If you're thinking of using a Norton box I've a set of engine plates you'd be welcome to borrow to copy, or a set of pre unit crankcases (small bearing dynamo) plus long or short chaincase inners for mocking up until you get yourself an engine......
Best of luck with the project..


1958 Triton
1958 Triumph 650 Speed Twin
1958 Velocette Viper
1959 Norton 650SS bitsa
1961 BSA Bantam D1
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Pre Unit] #492406
05/31/13 9:00 am
05/31/13 9:00 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Hi Pre Unit, thanks for the links, I like the idea of an Imp engine as they were made (or at least assembled) in Scotland but looking at what would be involved, and the risk of offending the local Hillman oficionados, maybe not.


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: GrandPaul] #492407
05/31/13 9:05 am
05/31/13 9:05 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Hi GrandPaul, thanks I'll bear this in mind when I get an engine sorted, after seeing pictures of your unit engined Triton (which looks great) I am keeping my options open on this for now.


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: al jam] #492408
05/31/13 9:10 am
05/31/13 9:10 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Hi al jam, thanks a lot for the offer, this would be great help if that is the route I go when I get the engine and gearbox arrangement figured out.


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #492492
05/31/13 9:34 pm
05/31/13 9:34 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...I got the frame stripped and cleaned, cut off the battery box that had been fitted by the PO, then dye penetrant inspected the complete frame. The only cracks I found were at the gusset plate at the top of the front down tubes (where triton thrasher suggested I look), but the cracks were in the plate not the tubes, same on both sides. These look like fatigue cracks that have propagated from the edge of the plate and do not affect the adjacent welding and will be easy to repair by veeing out with a grinder and welding, I may also add a small closing plate to reinforce this area. The only other defects detected were some pin holes and small areas of lack of fusion on some of the weld returns which I will tidy up while I'm at it.

Removing the coating also revealed that there has been a doubler plate welded to the left hand lower frame tube, possibly to fix a side stand to in the past. I'll remove this to see what lies beneath and replace the section of tubing if necessary.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #494607
06/18/13 11:30 pm
06/18/13 11:30 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...removal of the plate that had been welded to the lower frame tube revealed a hole in the tube that the plate had been patching. The only thing to do therefore was to cut out and replace the damaged section of tube.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

After ordering the required material I made up a few test pieces to determine the best set up and welding procedure to use. After a few attempts using different joint configurations, welding parameters and filler rod sizes the best results were obtained using a backing slug inserted into the tube with the followings settings;

Electrode - 1.6mm dia, ceriated tungsten
Rod - ER70S-6, 1.6mm dia
Current - 105 amps
Prep - 55 deg to a feathered edge
Gap - none

[Linked Image]

Next I tack welded some RSA bracing into the frame to prevent movement when the damaged tube section was cut out and distortion from heat during welding.

[Linked Image]

I cut out the damaged section of tube using a reciprocating saw then squared off the ends with a file.

[Linked Image]

The new replacement section of tube was cut to length and the ends prepped in the lathe. Two insert slugs were turned to be a snug sliding fit in the bore of the tube, these were drilled through the center to allow hot gas venting during welding. I drilled the ends of the tubes with the inserts fitted to accommodate pins.

When fitting the replacement tube section I inserted the insert slugs and placed 2 strands of an old throttle cable through the holes for the pins then pushed the insets into the tube so that they were retracted allowing the tube to be placed in the gap in the frame. I then used the wire strands to pull on the retracted slugs so that they inserted into the adjacent existing frame tubes and the pin holes aligned. I then inserted the pins that were machined with a slight taper so that they were secure when knocked in.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Next I went round the joints to be welded with a warding file to get the correct vee groove profile. Then tacked and welded the ends of the pins and the joints.

[Linked Image]

I then smoothed out the welds using a manual and powered file sander.

[Linked Image]

Finally the bracing was removed when cooled and I did another alignment check to make sure that everything remained in-line, which it was.


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #494629
06/19/13 5:07 am
06/19/13 5:07 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,080
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,080
U.S.
Originally Posted By: Bry
…removal of the plate that had been welded to the lower frame tube revealed a hole in the tube that the plate had been patching. The only thing to do therefore was to cut out and replace the damaged section of tube...
Great stuff, Bry. Personally, I really enjoy a restoration thread like this where serious obstacles have to be understood and overcome in clever ways. It's tough enough to restore a bike where everything is functional to start with and "merely" has to be bolted together, but what you are doing requires work at a higher level. I can only hope you face additional such difficulties so we have more posts like this to read in the future...

p.s. This seems like as reasonable a place as any for a question I've been meaning to ask people in general. How many of you do your own TIG welding? Answers about MIG and stick welding would be interesting, too, but it's answers about TIG I'm particularly interested in.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 06/19/13 5:14 am. Reason: added TIG p.s.
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #494883
06/21/13 4:37 am
06/21/13 4:37 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,212
Middle East,
Kerry W Offline
BritBike Forum member
Kerry W  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,212
Middle East,
That's what I call thorough. I've always idly wondered how the internal slugs in a frame repair were positioned..

The RSA bracing was a touch I'm sure many wouldn't bothered with too...

I'll be watching an learning!


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #495424
06/25/13 11:01 pm
06/25/13 11:01 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...I picked up an early seventies Triumph/BSA conical rear hub off eBay. The condition was pretty good except for a lot of corrosion on the break drum surface mainly surface rust but some pitting corrosion also. The hub and brake plate cleaned up well with bead blasting and I decided to skim the drum to see if it was salvageable, before going any further. It needed 0.012" of cuts to clean up but as it looks like this is the first time the drum has bee skimmed it should be ok. I have decided to get the drum and brake plate powder coated satin black rather than polishing, but have not yet decided on whether to cut holes in the conical section and/or brake plate as is popular with these hubs on Tritons to give a manx hub look.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #495455
06/26/13 3:50 am
06/26/13 3:50 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,558
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Posts: 5,558
Maui Hawaii
Bry,
Good luck powder coating corroded aluminum. I've had varying results ranging from bubbles all over to corrosion emerging from under the coating down the road. Your 'coater will likely not offer a warranty on it.
Cheers,
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 06/26/13 3:50 am.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: HawaiianTiger] #495472
06/26/13 7:53 am
06/26/13 7:53 am
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
Bry,
Good luck powder coating corroded aluminum. I've had varying results ranging from bubbles all over to corrosion emerging from under the coating down the road. Your 'coater will likely not offer a warranty on it.
Cheers,
Bill




Hi Bill, thanks for the heads-up on this, I'll discuss this with the company I use for powder coating. I know that it is important to completely remove the aluminium oxide layer down to pure metal before powder coating and assumed that the glass bead blasting would do this. The powder coater that I use also pre bakes and chemically treats parts before coating.

Bry


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #496013
06/30/13 8:02 pm
06/30/13 8:02 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...I produced quite a bit of swarf today and in the process made a rear wheel spindle.

I went for an EN8 steel spindle with AISI 303 stainless steel nuts and washers. One nut is blind drilled and fixed to the end with red Loctite on the thread, this should keep it in place and hopefully prevent galvanic corrosion. The spindle is 5/8" dia with BSF threads and whitworth sized hex on the nuts.

I made the nuts extended with a reduced diameter area suitable for use with a paddock stand, as I don't think I will be fitting a center stand to this bike.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #506077
09/13/13 6:05 pm
09/13/13 6:05 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...i've been working on making a steering damper. I bought a repro Norton based unit which was good but did not fit quite right as it is designed to work with yokes (triple trees) for Roadholder forks and the alloy Marzocchi yokes that I am using are quite a bit deeper in section. In the process of modifying the damper I ended up remaking most of the parts in stainless steel only using the spring, friction disc and wing nut from the original kit.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #506093
09/13/13 8:29 pm
09/13/13 8:29 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 726
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
BritBike Forum member
old mule  Offline
BritBike Forum member
O
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 726
Overland Missouri
Nice work, please keep us up-dated.

Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #507465
09/22/13 7:21 pm
09/22/13 7:21 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...I started getting the front end together this weekend. I am using an eBay find Norton 8" hub with a new Commando TLS brake, I purchased new the necessary bearings, spacers washers and seals. What should have been a straight forward assembly job turned into a bit more as the bearing lock ring that I ordered using the Commando part number had a different thread pitch from my hub 22tpi v's 26tpi. There must have been a change here between the earlier and later 8"hubs?

To get things moving I decided to make a lock ring with a 26tpi thread using the one that I had purchased as a pattern. This worked out OK and everything else went together without problem.

I need to make a custom front spindle to match the Marzzochi forks to the Norton hub so I temporarily mounted the hub in the forks to get the necessary dimensions for this.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #508111
09/27/13 6:43 pm
09/27/13 6:43 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
Bry Online content OP

Bry  Online Content OP


Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Scotland
...work is continuing in the shed on making up the front wheel axle and associated spacers and nut, but I decided to also spend a bit of time this week on preparing a 3D AutoCAD model. The idea is to use the 3D model to try different ideas on styling and to see how various components will look when assembled before committing to making or purchasing these. I've just got the basic layout of the frame and the swing arm done so far, but it's a start.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1946 Velocette MSS
1955 Triton (project)
1959 Velocette Venom
1966 Triumph T120
Re: '55 Triton Cafe Racer [Re: Bry] #508250
09/28/13 11:07 pm
09/28/13 11:07 pm
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 176
MN
S
Shades34 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Shades34  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 176
MN
Impressive stuff Bry! I want one of those rear spindles to accommodate a paddock stand. No seriously what would you charge to spin one up for my triton.
http://www.jockeyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77443

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