BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
Posts: 79
Joined: September 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
216 registered members (Adam M.), 1,819 guests, and 549 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Brian Ellery, Jon Andrews, Berni Ernst, johnguppy, michael morgan
9955 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 190
koan58 100
Stuart 88
NickL 66
Popular Topics(Views)
437,160 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,270
Posts632,147
Members9,955
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
#505474 - 09/10/13 7:46 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 827
wak Offline
BritBike Forum member
wak  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 827
derby england
ummm not sure as a guy who as never touched one before will manage this !


BSA CYCLONE
BSA METISSE
TRIUMPH TR6C
BSA BUSHMAN
INDIAN WOODSMAN
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
#505475 - 09/10/13 7:53 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: kommando
Quote:
But what about the paws on the gear shaft,i take it this will be already in the inner cover and on its spring locator?how do the paws get past the cam plate without dislocating the forks?


If is difficult but through the gap between the inner cover and the crankcase you use anything to hand to press the pawls in as they pass over the camplate. Until you try it it does look impossible but it can be done.


IMO it's something that's was done since day one. The instructions for doing it are on the web somewhere but I can't seem to find them. I've done it myself a couple of times....all with later models....and no problems. Back in 2003 I helped a fellow at an AHRMA Vintage MX do it between motos and all together it took us less than 30 mins. We had the bike on it's side and never lost a drop of oil doing it.

I kinda wish I'd never said anything about it.....but it's been around for a LONG time.

Opie Gone Bad

#505482 - 09/10/13 8:43 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: CT Beezer
So I got the timing cover off and now I guess I have to go a little further in, right? (Pic below) I left the wire going to the contacts attached because I would have had to cut the wire because of the PO's last wiring job.

A couple questions:

1) The kickstart quadrant came off with the cover and I can't seem to get it out through it's bearing. Is it buggered up? Should I just give it a wack? I would think it might be hard to put everything back together that way, to attach the spring and all. And because it came off with the case I wasn't able to see the original positioning of it for reassembly. I just heard the WHAP of the spring coming off.

2) Is it necessary to drain the oil from the crankcase to go any further? And if so, my shows the drain as some simple little bolt on the bottom but in reality there's a large bolt (maybe 7/8") and the line that comes from the drain in the bottom of the frame. Which bolt would be the drain plug?

3) If I make a mark on the camshaft and the case, or something, will it be enough to not have to set the timing when I put everything back together later? 'Cause I don't really know how to do that.

4) Most importantly, what bolts/screws do I need to take out to go further? I'm assuming all of them....




Hey CT....we haven't been doing a very good job at ansewering your questions....sorry for that.

I think we've answered 1, 2 and 3.....#4 is all of them AND the stud that held the kickstart spring.

Keep at it, take your time. Photos and questions will get you through this. I'm going to pull an engine off the shelf and be ready to photo a step if you need it. Take your time....you're doing well so far and keep in mind, it's a BSA unit single....pretty much lawn mower technology...one of the reasons I love them so much.

Opie Gone Bad

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/10/13 9:01 am.
#505490 - 09/10/13 9:13 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: Gordon Gray]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Probably to late but we'll find out.

Sorry for the out of focus photos but I was having a time doing all of this with just two hands....and in a hurry.

To remove the pin that holds the camplate to the inner cover,

Use one of the small screws that holds on the outer cover.



Screw it into the end of the pin,



Remove the cotter



You should be able to pull the pin now....make sure you line up the hole for the cotter when you put it back.

Also make sure you have all the screws out of the case and the stud that holds the kickstart spring needs to be out too.



You should be able to remove the inner cover now....and have a look inside.

Opie Gone Bad

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/10/13 9:16 am.
#505498 - 09/10/13 10:10 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: Gordon Gray]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
I worked on the bike a little more last night. I'm taking small bites out of this, and remembering to walk away and learn more, before doing thing that can't be undone. That being said....

I was having difficulty finding the drain plug for the crankcase and I think I know why. I think it fell out. I did manage to locate the one on the primary side and it had some oil dripping out of it. Well turns out it was stripped (I may have helped it do that, but im 100% sure it was pretty much done)

1) At the bottom of the case there is a hexagonal protrusion with a hole that has threads in it (pictured below). The hole is about 5/16". Is that the crankcase drain plug?

2) I removed all the hardware holding the inner cover on (except for the cotter pin, thank you so much for the tutorial on that) and the auto-advance unit. I made a mark on the camshaft and the cover. Now, how do you keep the camshaft from spinning in order to take out the bolt? My manual, (the original red one) just says to take it out, but not how.

Gordon, and everybody helping, thank you so much. I know im in way over my head, but I want to get this going again to enjoy the fall riding season, but don't have the funds really to have it done.

Here's two pics. One of where I think the drain plug must have been (and if not, where the F is it?)as the only other holes have hose connected to them. Unless it's that bulbous hex/bulb bolt thing coming out of the front??And the other is where im at right now.




#505499 - 09/10/13 10:37 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
There is no crankcase drain plug, there is a large square sump towards the front but leave that alone, its a dry sump engine so there should be little oil to drain from the engine. You look to have found the gearbox drain plug which for some reason has an early plug fitted with a level hole (there is a tube which only allows excess oil to drain out, to remove all the gearbox oil remove the large hex, and buy a proper B50 gearbox drain plug to replace it.

Unscrew the bolt holding the AAU on, the engine will stop the camshaft rotating as it will attempt to turn the engine but spring pressure and compression will stop it.

#505500 - 09/10/13 10:55 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
Originally Posted By: kommando
You look to have found the gearbox drain plug which for some reason has an early plug fitted with a level hole


So you're saying the hex in that picture above IS the drain plug? Because it appeared to be molded to the case. I did try but because of the frame you can't get a socket on there. I can try again with a wrench when I get home..

Last edited by CT Beezer; 09/10/13 10:56 am.
#505506 - 09/10/13 11:34 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
CT...hang in there. We'll get through this in spite of ourselves. You're doing the right thing by taking your time.

Here's what kommando's talking about.

The Transmission oil drain plug



The Transmission oil drain plug you have




The crankcase sump cover (in a dry sump engine...MOST of the oil is pumped back up to the oil tank)



Okay, I'm just grabbing stuff lying around so some of it is dirty (don't hold that against me).

I'm also using an earlier model..(that's why my cases don't look exactly like yours)..BUT if we need to I'll pull a B50 engine off the shelf and start using it for the photo's.

Hang in there....we'll get it.

Opie Gone Bad

#505508 - 09/10/13 11:41 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: Gordon Gray]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
Awesome, thank you so much for all the pics! So will I need that bolt that goes into the bottom of the drain plug eventually? By all that grease and oil wasn't there a few months ago when I started riding, I cleaned it verrry well. Im a little embarrassed...

#505509 - 09/10/13 11:45 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,751
shel Online content
BritBike Forum member
shel  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,751
ohio
Don't be embarrassed, they all look like that.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
#505511 - 09/10/13 11:50 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
I see no rust, that oil and grease has its uses wink

Yes you need the bolt or the later single piece one to replace the whole thing, the later single piece one has a O ring which cuts out another leak.

#505512 - 09/10/13 11:51 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
Also- what do you guys think I should I do about the stripped out primary drain plug? It threads in, but then doesn't tighten. I probably shouldn't worry about it just yet, but at the same time if it's a part I need to order and etc...

#505513 - 09/10/13 11:55 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
CT, you'll need one type of plug or the other. The second one (the one you have?) has that tube with it.....the top of the tube (with the plug installed) is supposed to be the oil level. You remove the smaller bolt and fill the trans case with oil until oil comes out and then you know you have the proper amount. See.....BSA meant for there to be some oil on the bottom of the engine, it keeps things from rusting. laughing

Being a cheap arse myself....once you have that main drain plug out..if the threads for the smaller bolt are stripped...retap it for another bolt or epoxy it closed and become a PDO yourself!!!! We've all (well, a lot of us) been there. laughing

Last edited by Gordon Gray; 09/10/13 12:07 pm.
#505514 - 09/10/13 12:14 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: Gordon Gray]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Wow....we're answering you so quickly I can't keep up.

Primary drain plug, I need to take a look at that. you wouldn't want it falling out while riding.

Re tap for a larger bolt/screw?

Helicoil? (the fastener sponsor on this site might have the correct one?)

It's just a plug and not holding anything on...just keeping the oil in.

Your call on that one....Opie Gone Bad

#505515 - 09/10/13 12:25 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: CT Beezer
Also- what do you guys think I should I do about the stripped out primary drain plug? It threads in, but then doesn't tighten. I probably shouldn't worry about it just yet, but at the same time if it's a part I need to order and etc...


I just took a look at my B50 and it would be hard to keep an eye on that primary drain plug while riding. If it fell out and you lost the oil....it could get ugly.

So for me (and I'll jury rig something in a heartbeat) that kinda rules out jury rigging stuff like teflon tape and Loctite Thread Fixer.

Maybe somebody has a better fix than retap or helicoil type fixes.

Opie Gone Bad

#505525 - 09/10/13 1:12 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
I had taken the spark plug out and used a t-handle to find TDC (the manual said I should do this prior to taking the inner cover off) so I guess this is why it did not build up compression allowing me to remove that bolt from the auto advance unit?

#505542 - 09/10/13 2:50 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 188
Pelle Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pelle  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 188
Sverige
CT. So it seems you have the earlier type gearbox drain plug, the one with the pipe in Gordon's pic, and that the smaller drain bolt is missing. Running the bike will fling small amounts of oil into the pipe and without the smaller drain bolt to stop it, the oil will gradually leave the gearbox and, instead, protect your frame from rust.

How much oil came out when you removed the outer timing cover? The specs say 280 cc in the box. (And could a far too low oil level be part of your gearbox malfunction?)

#505921 - 09/12/13 6:38 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
Maybe im stupid, but how the hell are you supposed to get a wrench or a socket on the damn drain bolt with the frames crossmember in the way??!!

Also, now that i have the cam bolt out, how does the auto advance unit come off?

Last edited by CT Beezer; 09/12/13 6:51 pm.
#505930 - 09/12/13 7:44 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
So, i took a thin 19mm wrench and bent it with a torch, and although it slightly rounded corners, that bolt didnt budge. It looks seriously as though its just a part of the case. Molded there. Theres no seam.

Last edited by CT Beezer; 09/12/13 7:44 pm.
#505939 - 09/12/13 8:21 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT Beezer Offline
BritBike Forum member
CT Beezer  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 143
CT
Okay, gonna break out the vise grips, heavy hammer, and the for sale sign.

#505944 - 09/12/13 8:56 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,884
Rickman Offline
BritBike Forum member
Rickman  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,884
Ohio
Now, I have little to no real unit single experience....

But, is it possible, those who know, that some DPO didn't put some sort of sealing washer between the drain plug and case, and since they sinched it into place, it bound up the first thread, and now will require getting a socket onto the hex, so it can be turned loose, without boogering up the hex's shoulders??? It's gonna be tight...
And as thin as the shoulder looks, vise grips aren't gonna hold onto that drain plug for long...

Looking at the pic given, I see some possible ... joint?

This means the engine will need to be removed from the frame for CLEAR access to the drain plug...

Here's hope-ing you haven't yet attacked the drain plug...

#505948 - 09/12/13 9:26 pm Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
Gosh CT you were doing so well. Calm down and take a breather smile

First off......FORGET about taking the tranny drain plug out if it's that much of a pain. It might have some of Mr Healy's famous red loctite on it...so save it for another time. Look for a bolt that will fit in it's over flow and move on. You'll just have the tranny oil coming out when you take the inner cover off....no big deal. (if you can't find a bolt to fit PM me your snail mail addy and I'll send you one)

The auto advance is a tappered fit....where you took the bolt out....it has internal threads. If you can find a bolt that fits those threads....screw it in and then LIGHTLY tap the bolt sideways...and the auto advance will fall off.

I just got called back into work.....so I'm outa here for a bit.

Good luck.....somebody will fill in the spaces...hang in there.

Opie Gone Bad

#505998 - 09/13/13 8:16 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: CT Beezer]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
Follow Gordon's advise and instead stick a tray under the inner cover to catch the oil when you take the cover off. Wonder if BSA changed the threads in 71 and by forcing an old drain plug in a DPO has jammed it in tight, if so no biggy, leave it for later.

#506020 - 09/13/13 10:37 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 188
Pelle Offline
BritBike Forum member
Pelle  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 188
Sverige
Originally Posted By: kommando
stick a tray under the inner cover to catch the oil when you take the cover off.

The outer cover is already off. There can't be much oil left in the gearbox, or am I missing something here?

#506022 - 09/13/13 10:48 am Re: 71 b50ss lost ability to shift, help! [Re: Pelle]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
Gordon Gray Online sad
Life Member
Gordon Gray  Online Sad
Life Member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,221
North Carolina
You're 100% correct Pelle. Most of the oil should have passed through that crossover hole into the outer cover.

Good point..... smile

I just hope CT hasn't gotten frustrated enough to have given up. I know a lot of us feel his pain.

Opie Gone Bad

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.608s Queries: 16 (0.063s) Memory: 1.0057 MB (Peak: 1.3650 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-21 10:04:01 UTC