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help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? #504855
09/05/13 4:01 pm
09/05/13 4:01 pm
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13
israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
wanted to order wiring harness for my 1965 Thunderbird 650, in one book it's written as 12v system and the dealer say it's 6v.
Any one has an idea if it was 12v or 6v ?

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Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504858
09/05/13 4:52 pm
09/05/13 4:52 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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Don't know why the harness would care one way or the other.
For the finest quality, bike specific harness these are the guys.

http://www.britishwiring.com/Triumph-s/61.htm


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504872
09/05/13 6:06 pm
09/05/13 6:06 pm
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Carmel, CA
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Doc_dup1 Offline
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For what it's worth, my 65 shop manual says that they are 6 volts up to DU 5824 and 12 volts from DU5825 on.

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's a Norton, and two BMW's

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504873
09/05/13 6:08 pm
09/05/13 6:08 pm
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israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
on this site as well, they say 6v for the 65. So "TRIUMPH RESTORATION BOOK" is wrong ?!!

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: desco] #504885
09/05/13 8:12 pm
09/05/13 8:12 pm
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Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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Originally Posted by desco
Don't know why the harness would care one way or the other.

It might matter if you're looking for a wire to plug onto the zener,and it's not there.6V had no zener.

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #504886
09/05/13 8:17 pm
09/05/13 8:17 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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Pete,
That's why I usually wait for someone else to reply.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504897
09/05/13 10:39 pm
09/05/13 10:39 pm
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Posts: 2,597
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by davidvak
on this site as well, they say 6v for the 65. So "TRIUMPH RESTORATION BOOK" is wrong ?!!
If you are talking about David Gaylin's book, Triumph Bonneville & TR6 Motorcycle Restoration Guide, then -- no, the book is not wrong. The book is not dealing with the Thunderbird, but only the Bonneville and TR6, as the name implies.

According to the Factory Service manual, the Thunderbird went to 12V at DU5825, using two 6V batteries wired in series. The Bonneville and TR6 during this same time frame continued as a 6V system. They didn't change to 12V until DU24875, which is the starting S/N for 1966.

Ray

{Edit} For davidvak, since DU5825 is the starting S/N for 1964, and the Factory Service manual says that the Thunderbird went to a 12V system at DU5825, then your 1965 Thunderbird should be a 12V system.

Last edited by TR6Ray; 09/05/13 10:45 pm. Reason: added note for davidvak

'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: TR6Ray] #504907
09/05/13 11:55 pm
09/05/13 11:55 pm
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Posts: 7,325
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Offline

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Ray,

I'm willing to bet he's referring to Triumph Twin Restoration by Roy Bacon or Triumph Motorcycle Restoration by by Timothy Remus & Garry Chitwood.

http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Twin-Restoration-Roy-Bacon/dp/0850456355

http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Motorcycle-Restoration-Timothy-Remus/dp/1929133421


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504912
09/06/13 1:58 am
09/06/13 1:58 am
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Posts: 10,262
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Hi David,

Originally Posted by davidvak
Any one has an idea if it was 12v or 6v ?

Ime, I'd recommend 12V, unless you're a masochist.

Regards, grin

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504979
09/06/13 4:08 pm
09/06/13 4:08 pm
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israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
thank you all for your kind help !

Yes the book is Triumph Twin Restoration by Roy Bacon.

Now for the second question, i've been searching the web for wiring harness and found sellers that ask 50$ and others that ask 200$ for apparently the same item, is there anything i have to look for when i buy one (beside fitting my TB) ?

Can you recommend me of someone that sells them ?


Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #504984
09/06/13 5:12 pm
09/06/13 5:12 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: desco] #505092
09/07/13 12:10 pm
09/07/13 12:10 pm
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Posts: 13
israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
Originally Posted by desco


they also have only 6v for the model we are talking about , i need the 12v.

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #505192
09/08/13 4:15 am
09/08/13 4:15 am
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Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Hi David,

Originally Posted by davidvak
i've been searching the web for wiring harness and found sellers that ask 50$ and others that ask 200$ for apparently the same item, is there anything i have to look for when i buy one

My first-hand experience of off-the-shelf harnesses isn't good frown - I've experienced wrong-size cables, cables that didn't match up (where the harness was made originally in a 'front part' and 'back part'), extra cables, wrong connectors ... mad You can't check all of that but you can look for:-

. Main cables - Brown/Blue and Brown/White to ammeter and ignition switch, Red to battery +ve - were originally 44-strand (relatively thick). Modern metric 44-strand is even thicker so modern 28-strand - with either standard or 'thinwall' insulation - is acceptable; however, some makers of cheap, poor-quality harnesses have reduced these cables to 14-strand, which isn't acceptable imho. mad

. Original spade/tab terminal insulation looked like this, not like this.

. Original bullet terminals looked similar to this and were/are connected together with these and these (there are others with more sockets if you find yourself adding non-standard items later smile ). There is also the correct tool for pressing bullets into connectors. :bigt

. [Edit] Later off-the-shelf harnesses were/are covered in self-adhesive tape, usually black, wound round and round groups of cables in a near-continuous spiral. However, original and ime good-quality pattern harnesses of the era you're looking at were/are covered in a cloth braid, again afaict mainly black but inter-woven with usually a red and blue pattern. I can't find an exact picture but the braid looks not-dissimilar to "Braided sleeving" on this page.

Otoh, I already had experience of building my own harnesses - with cables, terminals and tools from both Autosparks and Vehicle Wiring Products - so I've continued to build my own.

Originally Posted by davidvak
Can you recommend me of someone that sells them ?

Do you have any particular country for the supplier in mind? Most Britbike parts retailers, irrespective of where they are in the world, are supplied by a handful of wholesalers, mostly based in GB.

My bad experiences of off-the-shelf harnesses were some years ago. I know triples much better and I've been told by others that certainly harnesses for them from L.P. Williams are very good quality, with improvements to the poor parts of the originals. :bigt Although LPW is a triples specialist, the company do also sell parts for twins. If Phil (the owner) doesn't stock the harness for your bike, he might be able to get one from his supplier, or recommend a retailer of a good-quality one?

Or Ace Classics do specialise in bikes like your Thunderbird. However, I've never used them so cannot comment on the quality of the parts they sell.

Hth.

Regards,

Last edited by Stuart; 09/09/13 6:24 am. Reason: Types of harness covering
Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: Stuart] #505250
09/08/13 2:53 pm
09/08/13 2:53 pm
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Posts: 13
israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
Stuart, That's amazing knowledge, thanks a lot for sharing it !
I just wrote LPW an email, will keep you posted .

as for country, I am from Israel , but with the internet the world is much smaller. 90% of the parts for my project came from the UK.

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: Stuart] #505266
09/08/13 5:19 pm
09/08/13 5:19 pm
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Posts: 692
Sunny Sussex, UK
tbird649 Offline
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I have bought parts from Ace Classics, (not a wiring harness though),everything I have got from there has been excellent. I would not think they would risk their reputation by selling inferior products.



Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #505288
09/08/13 8:22 pm
09/08/13 8:22 pm
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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Originally Posted by davidvak

They also have only 6v for the model we are talking about.I need the 12v.

There wouldn't be much difference between the last 6V and first 12V harness.The only difference I can think of would be the extra wire for the zener with 12V.The zener is only about 6" away from the rectifier.It wouldn't be hard to add 6" of wire to join them.
If you have a 3-wire single-phase stator,you can join 2 of the stator wires full-time (instead of only with headlight on,via the light switch) to get more output at low rpm with the lights off.They did that on later models.

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #505340
09/09/13 6:06 am
09/09/13 6:06 am
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Pete,

Originally Posted by Pete R
There wouldn't be much difference between the last 6V and first 12V harness.The only difference I can think of would be the extra wire for the zener with 12V.

Otoh, actual comparison between the wiring diagrams in the workshop manual shows more differences than "only ... the extra wire for the zener with 12V". Can you detail the the differences between the workshop manual 6V wiring diagram and "the last 6V" harness? Can you say if the differences are merely a matter of connections, or buried in the harness?

Then there is also whether David feels confident in his ability to modify an off-the-shelf harness?

Regards,

Re: help needed, 1965 Thunderbird 650 was 12v or 6v ? [Re: davidvak] #505520
09/10/13 12:37 pm
09/10/13 12:37 pm
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israel
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davidvak Offline OP
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israel
Just placed the order for the harness from Phil.
Will keep you posted when it will arrive !


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