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Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville #504219
09/01/13 12:56 pm
09/01/13 12:56 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
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QikBSA Offline OP
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QikBSA  Offline OP
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Q

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
Still trying to sort my wiring out. The harness looks british original, but none of the colours match up with any wiring diagram Ive seen. IE the leads off the zener are Brown/Blue not white/brown white. The ignition switch has Brown/white, blue/white and isolated brown/blue. Thats just one of many? Looked both at export and domestic. Any ideas what I may have?

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Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504220
09/01/13 12:57 pm
09/01/13 12:57 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
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QikBSA Offline OP
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QikBSA  Offline OP
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Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
Opps. Forgot 1969 Bonneville. John

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504228
09/01/13 2:07 pm
09/01/13 2:07 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 896
Skudeneshavn Norway
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Stein Roger Offline

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Skudeneshavn Norway
Usually later Triumphs has brown/blue from rectifier to the Zener and to the battery and switch.

72 Trident: http://www.triplesonline.com/images/factory/72T150UK_wiring.gif

SR

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: Stein Roger] #504233
09/01/13 2:34 pm
09/01/13 2:34 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,866
Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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http://www.britishwiring.com/PVC-Wires-s/67.htm

Your bike is 44 years old. Who knows how many idiots have performed abortions on it in that time?
Best to start over to avoid future confusion.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: Stein Roger] #504277
09/01/13 7:09 pm
09/01/13 7:09 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
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QikBSA Offline OP
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QikBSA  Offline OP
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Upstate NY USA
Stein Roger...You are right! Started pulling up later model wiring diagrams and there it was a 1973 Triumph harness on my 1969. Now that I can trace things are OK...except I have to figure how to wire in my ammeter which is there but not connected. Have live line from ignition switch just got to figure what to plug into.
Thanks Roger

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504281
09/01/13 7:32 pm
09/01/13 7:32 pm
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Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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http://www.gabma.us/page2.htm
There is an article here on wiring an amp meter, plus a zillion other things.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504294
09/01/13 9:26 pm
09/01/13 9:26 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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Vic. Australia
A few things won't be in the right place,and you'll need to extend some wires.The coils and condensors are under the seat on a '73,and the zener is not far from there on the air filter case.

To use the ammeter,you won't be using the existing brown/blue battery lead.Tape that up,so it goes nowhere.
Run a new wire from the battery to one side of the ammeter.Join the other side of the ammeter to the brown/blue wires that connect to the ignition switch.

The horn will be wired differently too,and the harness won't have what you need.Run extra wires for the horn.You could take the power for the horn from the main battery lead,so the horn doesn't overload the ammeter.

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #504327
09/02/13 6:55 am
09/02/13 6:55 am
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Posts: 10,262
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi John,

Originally Posted by QikBSA
1973 Triumph harness
Now that I can trace things are OK

Ye-ea-ah ... you might want to stop and think about this ...

You've noted already that you'll have to add new cables to use the ammeter. Pete says, "a few things won't be in the right place" ... uh, yeah ... ime, a lot of things "won't be in the right place". frown Plus '73 and '69 handlebar switches are entirely different, '73 and '69 lights toggle switches are entirely different, yadda, yadda.

Also, a correctly-made '69 harness will have thicker main (Brown/Blue, Brown/White, White or White/Blue and Red) cables; standard '73 cables are too thin for the current they have to carry. frown

It isn't impossible to connect a '73 harness to a '69 bike ... but it's a lot of faffing about. Add in that you're going to have a lot of unused cable ends anyway because you're fitting a electronic ignition and ime you run several risks:-

. you get fed up with all the extensions and cuts you have to make to make the connections;

. it looks crap when you've finished;

. it doesn't work;

. it's a 'mare to maintain.

Have you considered:-

a. simply swapping/selling/buying the '73 harness for a '69?

b. making your own?

The latter isn't as hard as it sounds. I'm hoping you've looked at the British Wiring site and have either bought or are planning to buy decent tools and the correct cable and terminals? :bigt Rather than cobbling things together with those horrible red-, blue- and yellow-insulated terminals, random bits of cable and pliers? sick If you're doing :bigt , you've got everything to need to build the harness your bike needs, rather than fiddling about with a copy of something designed nigh-on half-a-century ago. Plus the satisfaction of being able to say, "I built that". smile

Originally Posted by QikBSA
except I have to figure how to wire in my ammeter

Originally Posted by Pete R
To use the ammeter,you won't be using the existing brown/blue battery lead.Tape that up,so it goes nowhere.
Run a new wire from the battery to one side of the ammeter.Join the other side of the ammeter to the brown/blue wires that connect to the ignition switch.

Ahhh ... no. How will the alternator/rectifier charge the battery? The "existing" ('73) Brown/Blue connects the rectifier to battery -ve as well as the Zener and ignition switch.

If you look at the '69 diagram, you'll see Brown/Blue runs just from battery -ve to one side of the ammeter (and the horn or twin horns relay). In addition, Brown/White runs from the rectifier to the other side of the ammeter, as well as connecting to the Zener and the ignition switch.

In practice, it doesn't matter whether Brown/White or Brown/Blue connects to the Zener and the ignition switch; however, if you want the ammeter to indicate both charge into and discharge from the battery (as it does as standard), it does matter that the rectifier and battery -ve are connected to different sides of the ammeter. Then it's good practice to connect the Zener directly to the rectifier.

Originally Posted by Pete R
The horn will be wired differently

'69 the horn (or twin horns relay) must be insulated from its mounting, because battery -ve is connected to one side of it while the handlebar button is connected to the other side, and then battery +ve. So the horn/relay is 'live' all the time, just pressing the button makes the circuit and sounds the horn(s).

Otoh, '73 the horn button is supplied from the ignition switch by a White cable (which won't become 'live' 'til the ignition switch is 'on') and it's the horn button that supplies the horn, through the Purple/Black cable. The original '73 horn would still have been insulated from its mounting, and have a Red return cable as well as the P/B from the horn button, but cheapo pattern horns can return via their mounting bracket.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: Stuart] #504330
09/02/13 7:56 am
09/02/13 7:56 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
Originally Posted by Stuart

Originally Posted by Pete R
To use the ammeter,you won't be using the existing brown/blue battery lead.Tape that up,so it goes nowhere.
Run a new wire from the battery to one side of the ammeter.Join the other side of the ammeter to the brown/blue wires that connect to the ignition switch.

Ahhh ... no. How will the alternator/rectifier charge the battery? The "existing" ('73) Brown/Blue connects the rectifier to battery -ve as well as the Zener and ignition switch.

If you look at the '69 diagram, you'll see Brown/Blue runs just from battery -ve to one side of the ammeter (and the horn or twin horns relay). In addition, Brown/White runs from the rectifier to the other side of the ammeter, as well as connecting to the Zener and the ignition switch.

In practice, it doesn't matter whether Brown/White or Brown/Blue connects to the Zener and the ignition switch; however, if you want the ammeter to indicate both charge into and discharge from the battery (as it does as standard), it does matter that the rectifier and battery -ve are connected to different sides of the ammeter. Then it's good practice to connect the Zener directly to the rectifier.


If the brown/blue wire is no longer connected to the battery (taped up as I said),it is still connecting the rectifier and zener to the ignition switch and any accessories (lights etc).Connecting one side of the ammeter to the brown/blue wire on the ignition switch will work perfectly.The battery connects to the other side of the ammeter.The alternator is not on the battery side of the ammeter.

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504341
09/02/13 9:14 am
09/02/13 9:14 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
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QikBSA Offline OP
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Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
OK I can connect from the blue/brown ignition switch on one side but to the battery positive or neg terminal?
Thanks to everyone for your comments and assistance.
John

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504357
09/02/13 11:43 am
09/02/13 11:43 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,262
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi John,

Originally Posted by QikBSA
I can connect from the blue/brown ignition switch on one side but to the battery positive or neg terminal?

Neither.

You need to understand what Pete and I are explaining:-

1. If you want your bike's ammeter to work, and you insist on using the '73 harness, you should not connect the ignition switch directly to the battery.

2. While you can connect the Brown/Blue in the '73 harness to the ignition switch, Zener diode and rectifier output, you must also connect it only to one side of the ammeter.

3. You must tape up the ring terminal on the Brown/Blue that, on a '73 bike, would attach to battery -ve.

4. You must run a new, different, cable between battery -ve and the ammeter terminal that doesn't have the '73 harness existing Brown/Blue attached.

5. Ideally, this new, different, cable between battery -ve and the ammeter should not be Brown/Blue also. It should be another colour or combination not used elsewhere in the harness.

However, I strongly advise against too many additional cable colours just so you can connect a '73 harness to a '69 bike. If you get a problem you can't solve and need someone else's help, that someone isn't going to be happy divining your personal cable code while simultaneously trying to work out where you screwed up; if the someone's a professional auto-electrician, ime it'll cost you dearly. frown

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: Stuart] #504379
09/02/13 1:55 pm
09/02/13 1:55 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
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QikBSA Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 23
Upstate NY USA
Thanks to everyone for thier guidance and input.
ITS ALIVE!!!!!

Re: Weird Wiring Harness On Triumph Bonneville [Re: QikBSA] #504472
09/03/13 12:47 am
09/03/13 12:47 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,262
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Scotland
Hi John,

Originally Posted by QikBSA
ITS ALIVE!!!!!

Didn't Professor Frankenstein say that about his ... errr ... creation? wink

Well done. clap

Regards,


Moderated by  John Healy 


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