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1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? #378463
06/12/11 10:07 am
06/12/11 10:07 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,146
Gothenburg, Sweden
Morgan aka Admin Online happy OP

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Morgan aka Admin  Online Happy OP

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Gothenburg, Sweden
I am going to buy a 1939 BSA M22 (KM22) in original look.
It has a 6 spring BSA clutch and I wonder it's possible to buy and fit a 4 spring triumph clutch with BSA adaptor?

Would it fit right on? anyone out there having knowledge or experience with this?

Cheers

Attached Files m22.jpg

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Morgan Johansson
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Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378471
06/12/11 11:14 am
06/12/11 11:14 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,569
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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Mainshafts all have the same taper so the Trumpet conversion will work the same as it would on any other BSA.
Because the primary is tin & not aluminum you will need to adjust the position of the engine sprocket to get proper alignment of the primary chain which is done by altering the spacer behind the sprocket.

I use old ball race outers ground down to whatever size is needed.
Occasionally some clutch drums will sit out too far and foul on the case in which case a thicker primary gasket ( or 2 ) will sort it out short term.
Not all clutch centers are the same.
The tapered holes are different sizes ( taper is the same ) which alter the position on the main shaft so it might be worth while getting a few old ones.
When I was buggering around with the clutch conversion on the WM 20 there was better than 1/2" difference in position on the main shaft between the 1/2 dozen or so had I had in the " clutch parts box " so I will have to sort that one out a bit later.

If you are going that far you may as well do the alloy pressure plate conversion as well. It is well worth while.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378482
06/12/11 12:31 pm
06/12/11 12:31 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,146
Gothenburg, Sweden
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Trevor
Thanks for the input, I heard somewhere that there are two different adaptors but have not had it verified so your input is of great interest.

At first i want to assemble the 6 spring clutch and start the bike and test it.
You see this winter he had done some work on it but missed to mount the primary chain link clip so when I started it the chain broke and damaged several teeth on front and clutch sprocket. So i had to in my office clothes remove the hole primary
fix it and reassemble again. Well I couldn't finish the job as i didn't have a chain split link and i also noticed that the front sprocket was out of alignment.

The sprocket was to far out and I couldn't refit the sprocket nut as the spring was to heavy to push in so far.
I'm ready to go back tomorrow with a new spacer The old was 19,6 mm or more than 3/4". My eyes said that i could reduce spacer to at least 5/8".

Allan: Nope do not want to modernize tha bike that much fitting a newer G-box.

I could have use of engine sprocket parts. the sleeve anyway.

Step 1, fix the primary so I can test it properly
step 2, buy it and then buy a complete 4 spring clutch

If more tips are available please keep em coming..

Nice bike eh..


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Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: ] #378632
06/13/11 9:54 am
06/13/11 9:54 am
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 134
Muriwai,New Zealand
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Muriwai,New Zealand
Originally Posted By: 1968BSA
out of curiosity, could you fit a later pre-unit A10 type gearbox? into something like the M20/ 22 etc

Here is an image of a cool rigid b31 fitted with a swingarm box.Doing the same thing myself just have to cut some front engine plates to mount motor then pattern rear plates to suit different g/b mounts.M20 should have a little more room than the b series and i have seen a s/a box mounted on its side in a 1930's bsa v twin

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378634
06/13/11 10:57 am
06/13/11 10:57 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12
Somerset UK
Offshore Dave Offline
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Somerset UK
Hi Morgan, I would be interested how the clutch mod goes. I have a 1936 model Q8, empire star, which has the single spring clutch, it would be good to fit the later clutch. The Q8 gearbox/clutch was basically later used on the early M20's, so I am thinking it might just be possible to go the clutch route you are looking at. Having said that the primary chain case is all alloy and (I believe ) specific to the Q8, so not sure there is room for the later design of clutch.

Rgds Dave


1967 Rickman Metisse 8 valve road race.
1970 T120R.
1974 TR7 + Squire sidecar.
1976 T140V
1936 BSA Q8 Empire Star
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378649
06/13/11 1:59 pm
06/13/11 1:59 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Seattle
Yea, Morgan, I'd be very interested to find out how you do with this since I'm still undecided as to whether to use the original six-spring or upgrade as you are on my M23.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378724
06/13/11 8:13 pm
06/13/11 8:13 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,146
Gothenburg, Sweden
Morgan aka Admin Online happy OP

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Morgan aka Admin  Online Happy OP

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Joined: Jul 2001
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Gothenburg, Sweden
Went today and worked with the M22, mounted the primary but left the outer cover. The six spring clutch was really saggy and I had trouble getting it to work properly. However the main thing was to start and run the bike and so I did. Conclusion is i will get a trailer, buy and fetch it tomorrow. big smile grin

I can tell you it will look good in BritBike Museum

Ps i will probably buy a complete 4 spring and five friction plate clutch from SRM with that nice new adapter. Fit that onto my touring goldie. Then i will take the present 4 spring clutch from my Goldie which has 4 friction plates and use that on the old M22 which does not have that much POWER.. wink

Beware this might take several months before it's been done


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Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378728
06/13/11 8:53 pm
06/13/11 8:53 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
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Michigan, USA
Morgan , I have no experience with your situation but I have fit the 4 spring to an A-10 and a couple things I haven't seen mentioned are the adaptors.There were some made in the past that were wrong taper , I ended up with one and it gave me fits trying to make it work , Rabers in CA. stock the correct pieces.With my setup I was able to use a 3 spring center hub with the cush drive giving me more options with the engine sprocket/compensator/alignment.Also the alloy 3 spring plate is far easier to come by.One last thought , I have what I thought was the standard 4 spring chainwheel in good very shape but when I got it home I found it is nearly 3/8" sallower than standard .Since you may require fewer plates if you run into clearance issues with the chaincase cover this might work for you ,I'd be happy to pass it along.

FWIW-BONZO

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378743
06/13/11 9:40 pm
06/13/11 9:40 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,146
Gothenburg, Sweden
Morgan aka Admin Online happy OP

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Morgan aka Admin  Online Happy OP

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Thank you Bonzo for your offer however i have found it bad to get parts from different suppliers when it comes to the clutch.
I will get me a complete clutch where i know everything will work together.
The 3 spring option is of course interesting but i'll stick with the 4 spring non cushion hub.

Cheers


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Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #378919
06/14/11 9:12 pm
06/14/11 9:12 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,146
Gothenburg, Sweden
Morgan aka Admin Online happy OP

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here is the bike in BritBike Museum. Our newest family member!!!
lookin good eh!

Attached Files bsa-m22-1939.jpg

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Morgan Johansson
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Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #379402
06/17/11 12:57 pm
06/17/11 12:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,987
Stone Creek OH USA
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Looking good Morgan, the M22 will look even better next year as I ride it to the rally in Sweden bigt laughing


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #379601
06/18/11 5:07 pm
06/18/11 5:07 pm
Joined: Dec 2010
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holland
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theo Offline
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holland
The pre war M OHV looks verry good and ride fantastic the bikes i make have the M20 one spring clutch and works well only my M23 1940 have a 6 spring clutch

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #500975
08/09/13 11:34 am
08/09/13 11:34 am
Joined: Jun 2008
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Rotherham, UK
Ian Clifton Offline

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Rotherham, UK
Hi Morgan,

I know I'm dredging up the past with this, but would like to know how things went?
I'm having 6 spring clutch woes on my M33!! Would like to get it working better, but the Triumph 4 spring sounds like a better option!!
Also, I will need to obtain a BSA single spring clutch for my WM20 project if anyone could help?? or I may have to go down the Triumph route again.. crazy


Just a few Beezers.. ☺

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Ian Clifton] #500980
08/09/13 12:10 pm
08/09/13 12:10 pm
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Death row next in line norfolk
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I fitted a new TRIUMPH 3 spring clutch to a 1937 BSA HM21 also have a 4 spring TRIUMPH clutch fitted to my 1949 B33 & 1950 ZM20 much superior clutch than the six spring BSA!! a case of fit and forget.Thinking of doing same on my WM20 as I use the prop stand a lot and oil is getting into clutch resulting in a badly slipping clutch..Dave


1941 BSA WM20
1958 TRI-BSA 750 PRE UNIT
1957 THUNDERBIRD
1932 R E MODEL GS SPECIAL
1947 BSA YM21
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Tribsauk] #500983
08/09/13 12:21 pm
08/09/13 12:21 pm
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Rotherham, UK
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Sounds like I'm half way there now Dave.. bigt Why though, am I being told the hub adapter will only fit the swinging arm boxes? Is there any fettling involved?


Just a few Beezers.. ☺

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Ian Clifton] #500990
08/09/13 1:00 pm
08/09/13 1:00 pm
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Posts: 342
Germany
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Pete C Offline
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Germany
I have a 4 spring on my M21 and I believe the adaptor is different to that used on the standard swinging arm box. Kiddiminster motorcycles apparantly have the modified adaptors for the plunger/rigid variants.

Cheers
Pete


Cheers
Pete
Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Pete C] #500992
08/09/13 1:05 pm
08/09/13 1:05 pm
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Rotherham, UK
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Rotherham, UK
Cheers Pete.. I'll give them a ring.. bigt Just rung them and ordered the full kit.. 6 spring clutch woes no more!!! grin

Last edited by Ian aka Frank; 08/09/13 1:17 pm.

Just a few Beezers.. ☺

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Morgan aka Admin] #501043
08/09/13 9:29 pm
08/09/13 9:29 pm
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Missouri
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Missouri
I'm in process of adapting a 6 spring set up to an early pre-war hand change 3 speed. You guys have a wealth of information between you. I may have to alter the output shaft length, it seems very long with the cone type pressure plate. Havent taken any measurements, yet. I will keep watching this post for pointers.

Re: 1939 BSA M22: Will a Triumph 4 spring clutch fit? [Re: Ian Clifton] #501430
08/12/13 8:26 pm
08/12/13 8:26 pm
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Death row next in line norfolk
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Death row next in line norfolk
Originally Posted By: Ian aka Frank
Cheers Pete.. I'll give them a ring.. bigt Just rung them and ordered the full kit.. 6 spring clutch woes no more!!! grin


Just spent Saturday stripping out WM20 single spring clutch to find it soaked in oil again!! done less than 1000 miles since I last did it.All cleaned up with new o ring seals fitted new gaskets will also use rear stand as its definately gearbox oil seaping into clutch thru output shaft.The original cork main seal is worn so I shortened it a bit then fitted a O ring either end .Last chance then its TRIUMPH clutch time!!!!!!!


1941 BSA WM20
1958 TRI-BSA 750 PRE UNIT
1957 THUNDERBIRD
1932 R E MODEL GS SPECIAL
1947 BSA YM21

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