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#499852 - 07/31/13 9:26 am sad day  
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scott67TT Offline
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nc usa
I'm reading an ad on eBay for a '64 TR6C from the Sullivan collection. Restored and never started. Ad states starting it would lower the value. Sad day in my mind. Go buy a damn painting is my first reaction. But these guys have a place in the world I suppose. I just cannot for the life of me imagine sitting across the room from this bad boy and having no inclination to ride it or even knowing if the damn thing runs. Beyond the investment side, I just don't get it. Nut I'm certainly used to it. My brother, who has the means to write a resto check without blinking an eye, has owned and kept in a fucking storage shed for over 35 years a matching number 1969 Z28. Sad day.

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#499874 - 07/31/13 1:42 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Quote:
Ad states starting it would lower the value.


Marketing ploy from a clever ad-writer?

Any statement has to be taken with a grain of salt. .

It takes all kinds!


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#499881 - 07/31/13 2:31 pm Re: sad day [Re: JBMorris]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted By: JBMorris
Marketing ploy from a clever ad-writer?

Any statement has to be taken with a grain of salt. .

It takes all kinds!
Nope, not if it's part of the Sullivan collection. He has more than a few like that. Regardless of who built it, I'd prefer to know compression numbers and at least see a bike run down the road and back (if no test rides allowed) before I'd part with the cash to buy it cause it looked nice.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#499928 - 07/31/13 7:09 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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HawaiianTiger Online content
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At most shows I've attended, the judges inspect the bikes for signs of having been run. No carbon at the exhaust? Points off!
Only an non-motorcyclist idiot buys a bike without hearing it run.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#499943 - 07/31/13 8:54 pm Re: sad day [Re: HawaiianTiger]  
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gcuz Offline
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Sylvan Lake, MI
I think it's a matter of personal taste & opinion, of course.

My personal opinion is that a build on a bike is not complete without it having been run. Timing needs to be dialed in, carbs need to be balanced, rings have to at least begin to seat, and leaks (air or oil) need to be identified and resolved, electrics need to be tested under running conditions. Only then is a bike ready for delivery to a customer.

Again...my two cents. And I have huge regards for Bobby Sullivan & Ryan Bissett. That '64 is a damn fine machine.

#499959 - 07/31/13 10:26 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Simonofsweden Offline
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Well to each'is own. In my book not starting up a bike would lower it's value. Can't really see the point of a motorcycle that has never been started up? There might not even be anything inside the cases and cylinder...

At Swedens biggest custom show "Norrtälje Custom Bike Show" it is mandatory to drive the bike in to the exibitionarea in order to enter the contest. From which one year Stellan Egeland qualified and won the World Championship. A Championship where many of the bikes are trailer queens with empty engines.

Here's Stellans bike by the way
http://www.seservice.se/galleri_hulster_eng.html

/s

Last edited by Simonofsweden; 07/31/13 10:28 pm.

I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
#499965 - 07/31/13 10:46 pm Re: sad day [Re: gcuz]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Originally Posted By: gcuz
I think it's a matter of personal taste & opinion, of course.

Timing needs to be dialed in, carbs need to be balanced, rings have to at least begin to seat, and leaks (air or oil) need to be identified and resolved, electrics need to be tested under running conditions. Only then is a bike ready for delivery to a customer.


And the carb's fuel air mixture needs to be set correctly!


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#499967 - 07/31/13 10:48 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: scott67TT
a '64 TR6C ... Restored and never started. ... I just cannot for the life of me imagine sitting across the room from this bad boy and having no inclination to ride it or even knowing if the damn thing runs.
To jump in with another point of view, all of the machines discussed on this Forum were mass produced, and this '64 TR6C is by no means the only one of its kind in the world. Because they were mass produced, buying any given one and locking it away in no way deprives anyone else from the pleasure of riding one.

It is common in the book collecting world to buy two copies -- one to read and one to sit untouched on the shelf. Presumably the book collector derives pleasure sitting across the room from that particular pristine copy, and no doubt it has greater investment value than a dog-eared copy. Again, most books (like the TR6C) are produced in quantity, so not reading every single copy that was printed isn't necessary to derive pleasure from owning it. I happen to own multiple copies of a particular museum catalog that was produced with two variations of the cover (and in hard and softback) and in four languages. I've never even opened most of them, and have no inclination to do so, but I do have a dog-eared copy as well. So, while if the '64 TR6C were my only motorcycle I almost certainly would ride it, if it were my 10th I very well might not.

p.s. I just mentioned this discussion to one of my colleagues and he told me that stamp collectors used to value cancelled stamps higher than unused ones, because only a cancelled stamp had been used "as it was intended." However, he said now the opposite is true, and never-used ones are valued higher. I didn't bother checking whether or not what he told me is correct, but either way it illustrates that these things are conventions, not absolutes. As conventions, they change. Until fairly recently "over-restored" old American motorcycles had the highest value, but now as-found ones are more sought after. In ten years it might change again.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 07/31/13 11:13 pm. Reason: added p.s. about stamps
#499974 - 07/31/13 11:08 pm Re: sad day [Re: HawaiianTiger]  
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D.Bachtel Online content
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SLO County, CA
Originally Posted By: HawaiianTiger

Only an non-motorcyclist idiot buys a bike without hearing it run.
Bill


Hey..... none of the bikes I've bought ran, and only a few of them rolled!


Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
#499988 - 08/01/13 1:20 am Re: sad day [Re: D.Bachtel]  
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Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Bad combination Don, you can't just roll them out of sight/out of mind...(currently tripping over a B40 with locked up engine and rear wheel, might have to work on it just to clear a trail in the garage!).

#500007 - 08/01/13 3:59 am Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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HawaiianTiger Online content
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OK, basket cases and barn finds excepted. I do it all the time, myself. Those bikes were meant to be perfect in every way except that they are not used as intended. It's real hard to wrap your head around.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#500018 - 08/01/13 7:11 am Re: sad day [Re: Magnetoman]  
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Simonofsweden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Magnetoman

It is common in the book collecting world to buy two copies -- one to read and one to sit untouched on the shelf.


Ha ha! You got me there. I have vinylrecords that are still in it's unbroken plastic seal and that I never intend to play. Although I do have other copies that I do play (and CD:s and internet streaming). Guess you can't rule out that if I had unlimitied sources of money I would look at bikes the same way.
But I doubt it.

/s


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
#500048 - 08/01/13 1:26 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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GrandPaul Online content
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Not many people will challenge the accuracy & quality of a Sullivan bike, but it seems the majority opinion holds that they are a distraction in that they have never run.

Perhaps the only things worse are the ones in unopened crates. Shroedinger's Cats, anyone?


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#500062 - 08/01/13 3:14 pm Re: sad day [Re: GrandPaul]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: GrandPaul
it seems the majority opinion holds that they are a distraction in that they have never run.
OK, a confession -- I have just such a bike that has never run after it was restored fifteen years ago. In my defense, your honor, it's not like I actually "need" to ride this particular bike since I have others that fill same niche in bike-space. In addition, it has been displayed in a half-dozen museums and has additional sentimental value as well so I have no interest whatever in selling it, either.

However, when Simon confirms he's played those records of his, I'll consider starting it...
Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
I have vinylrecords that are still in it's unbroken plastic seal and that I never intend to play.

#500088 - 08/01/13 6:29 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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HawaiianTiger Online content
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Maui Hawaii
OK, OK, basket cases, barn finds and museum pieces, excepted. But the reason I hold this opinion is that I have entered the collector bike world before and have exited from the other side.
Bikes that are not run just sit there and deteriorate. I find that heartbreaking.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#500103 - 08/01/13 8:54 pm Re: sad day [Re: GrandPaul]  
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Tiger100 Offline
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Tiger100  Offline
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Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted By: GrandPaul

Perhaps the only things worse are the ones in unopened crates. Shroedinger's Cats, anyone?


People actually have bikes in crates! Seriously?

Years ago I often heard about some old bloke over this way that had a 1940s Triumph restored and in a glass display cabinet in his home bar but always thought it was likely a furphy.


Regards

Grant
#500108 - 08/01/13 9:33 pm Re: sad day [Re: Tiger100]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Well, I just won $300.00 from the lottery games so now when the next big one hits I will definitely build a house with a room specifically designed to show off a non-leaking Triumph!

Ever the optimist, no sad days for a dreamer. . .


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#500115 - 08/01/13 10:46 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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John Healy Online content
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,971
Boston, Massachusetts
Bobby worked as a mechanic in a California Triumph shop in the 1970's, and developed a love for Triumphs. Being far from home and living hand-to-mouth he could not afford one.

Turn 30 years, one thing-led-to-another, and with a lot of hard work, and some luck, he ends up owning 4 50,000 sq foot warehouses around the country stock full with helmets and the like. Now there are times when helmets fly out the door, and times when they don't. With the economy as it is there have been a lot more of the "when they don't these days."

So instead of laying off his key personnel he trains them to restore, what else, Triumph motorcycles. They do this on days when the phones don't ring. Then one day you look around and there are hundreds of Triumphs that have been brought back to life from piles of junk. But every cup has a brim, to make more room and be able to keep his guys employed, a few are offered.

But don't worry, he is continuing to build more to replace the ones he is selling... So if you hit the megabucks, and there is any oil left in this country when you do, I am sure he would be happy to hitch you up with a new 50 year old Triumph. Do you have any idea how much work it is to keep the tires inflated on 100 plus motorcycles? I suppose its better than being laid off and loosing your health insurance...


#500120 - 08/01/13 11:13 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Boomer Online content
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Orygone
Is he hiring?


Boomer
#500123 - 08/01/13 11:40 pm Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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D.Bachtel Online content
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SLO County, CA
Those guys with the restored bikes that don't run...
I've seen them for years, at shows.
I make it a point to offer up a full price retainer if they'll let me be the test pilot.
I mean what's the worse that can happen? I'll cover any damage. laughing

Really, the start up and tuning involved to make a reliable one kick starter is half the fun of a resurrection and the reward I work for.
It's a satisfaction that can't even be compared to the recognition others may pile on you.

Don in Nipomo


1956 Zundapp KS601EL
1960 Greeves Scottish/Hawkstone Velorex 560
1963 BSA Gold Star Spitfire
1964 Triumph T20SM
1965 BSA C15T
1966 BSA VE
1968 Bonham Tote Gote
1969 BSA VS
1970 BSA A65L (with a "Y")
1972 Husqvarna 450 WR
1986 Yamaha TT 225
1987 BMW K75C
#500127 - 08/02/13 12:15 am Re: sad day [Re: D.Bachtel]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Dr. BreachLock,
What would be the shelf- life for all the breaking in and running in fluids that the apprentice restorer used-- besides Red Loctite?

You might have to ask him to re-build it again, just to make sure!
shocked


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#500128 - 08/02/13 12:26 am Re: sad day [Re: Tiger100]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Magnetoman  Online Content

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U.S.
Originally Posted By: Tiger100
Years ago I often heard about some old bloke over this way that had a 1940s Triumph restored and in a glass display cabinet in his home bar but always thought it was likely a furphy.
I don't know what a "furphy" is, but maybe that's what I have myself. Immediately after it was restored my motorcycle left for fame and glory. Finally, after having been away in museums for several years it was returned to me and, much to the annoyance of my wife, I put it in the entry to our house. Hey, how many people have objects in their house that have been displayed in art museums? Inexplicably, she wasn't impressed with that justification. But, the bike had staked out its territory so there it sat for me to admire every time I came home. Then a couple of years later another museum borrowed it and she suddenly remembered a long-supressed desire to own a piano. Before the motorcycle was returned a piano was sitting in the entryway. I once mentioned that she never played that piano, but without missing a beat she replied that I never rode that motorcycle...

#500146 - 08/02/13 2:44 am Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Tiger100 Offline
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Queensland, Australia
Charles that is funny and quite the response I would expect from my own wife!

Sorry, furphy is a rumour. I think it originated with Diggers in WW1 who would receive news and such from the water cart driver. The water tank on the cart was a made by Furphy tanks & hence had the logo on the tank. I'm guessing a lot of the news passed on turned out to be rumours.


Regards

Grant
#500155 - 08/02/13 3:32 am Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Boomer Online content
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Orygone
I own a '59 Clubman GS that I built in '83/'84 and raced in about 70 races between '85 and '95. The engine was rebuilt about 20 times, I holed a piston three times, lost a valve seat twice, broke the frame twice. I retired it to the basement by the furnace until last year when it was cleaned up and proudly displayed in the mancave in a prominent position with warm lighting and a bedpan. I think it deserves at least that.

Bill


Boomer
#500158 - 08/02/13 4:17 am Re: sad day [Re: scott67TT]  
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Tiger100 Offline
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Queensland, Australia
Sounds like a well earned rest Boomer!


Regards

Grant
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