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#483837 - 03/31/13 9:40 pm Re: Exhausting work ***** [Re: TR6Ray]  
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R Moulding Online content
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Christchurch NZ

The trick with the silencers is to be very carefull how stressed they are where they join the headers. The Armours silencers i have were just a little oversize and would not clamp down tight to the header pipes. They lasted 15000 miles, then i made up a shim from a drink can and clamped them down tight. They broke pretty quick. I brazed them several times off the bike and they kept breaking. The last time they broke i was in a rush and brazed them in place. It was then that the problem became apparent. The header pipes angle in slightly where they meet the silencer. This shows up when you view the repaired silencer from above. The stubs on the silencer now exit at a funny angle but they have not broken yet. You need to have the front pipe clamped solid to the head when you slip the silencer on, if you have to pull it to reach the bracket it's going to break.

The short silencers will give your bike a much louder tone compared to the longer ones. Fitting the L brackets will also only help if everthing else fits, i know that from experience. My bike should have a simple cross piece in place of the L brackets.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Sorry to rabbit on again.

Rod

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#483843 - 03/31/13 10:15 pm Re: Exhausting work [Re: R Moulding]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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Thanks, Rod. That all makes sense to me. I'm trying to get it all fitted with no pre-stressed connections.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#484366 - 04/04/13 3:10 am Re: Exhausting work [Re: TR6Ray]  
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Well, I made a bit of progress today. The exhaust system is on now, and all tightened up. It's aligned the best I could get it. I smeared a bit of Hi-Temp gray silicon at each of the four connections. Here are some pictures:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The little bracket I made (pictures in last previous update), with the rubber bumper pad, seems to work okay. The side loop on the center stand would be hitting the silencer without the pad in place. Here is the clearance between the center stand and the silencer.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#484370 - 04/04/13 4:45 am Re: Exhausting work [Re: TR6Ray]  
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R Moulding Online content
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Christchurch NZ

Just absolutely stunning Mate. Bolt the carb on a go?

Rod

#484391 - 04/04/13 1:46 pm Re: Exhausting work [Re: R Moulding]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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Thanks, Rod. It's not quite ready to bolt the carb on and go. The only wiring on there right now is for the front and rear lights. Well, the stator wiring is there, but stops in space underneath the engine. So that will be the next thing. The carburetor was last used in 1971, then sat in a barn for 38 years. For the last several, it has been sitting inside a coffee can on my shelf, where it lives now. I'll look at that once the wire harness is in place.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#484491 - 04/05/13 3:03 am Re: Exhausting work [Re: TR6Ray]  
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T140V-Rich Offline
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Wow. That is a beauty, Ray. Hat's off to you. I've enjoyed reading every word and seeing every photo. You realize you're encouraging me to get off me duffer and get back in the fettling shed? Blimey. I was enjoying the break and now you've gone and done it. smile

Cheers

Richard


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
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Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
#484547 - 04/05/13 2:05 pm Re: Exhausting work [Re: TR6Ray]  
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So close...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#486036 - 04/16/13 8:59 pm Some electrical stuff [Re: GrandPaul]  
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I have spent a ton of time reading through old threads on here about all things electrical, and kind of stalled out on the bike work while trying to decide how to proceed. I decided to at least put the coils on.

Since this bike started life with a 6V system, the proper coils were there for the Boyer, if they were any good. The only multimeter(s) I had around were a few from Harbor Freight. For a while they were giving them out free with a $5.00 purchase. I didn't trust these much, so I decided to pick up something better without breaking the bank. I got a Sperry DMM.

With this, the old coils checked 1.9 ohms; for primary resistance, (which is what the Boyer wants) and showed no continuity to the case from either the primary or secondary terminals (good). I cleaned the coils up and was going to use them. Then I realized I had not checked for continuity between primary and secondary. I found on here that this should read about 5 to 7 K-ohms; or so. The Sperry was showing infinity (I thought) so I figured the coils were bad. I got a pair of Indian made Lucas coils from Mitch Klempf and they checked the same. Hmmm.

Looking a bit closer, the Sperry only checks to 4 K-ohms; and it was not showing infinity, it was showing OL for "over limit"! Duh.

With the little Harbor Freight junk meter, I found the reading to be 4.9 K-ohms;. I'm going to use the old ones and keep the new ones for spares.

The coil mounting brackets were different from side to side, perhaps a running engineering change, or one is aftermarket??

[Linked Image]

One side is stamped out such that it does not need a "D" washer. The other side uses two of them, both of which were toast. I think these are aluminum and were squeezed from overtightening. They split when I tried to open them up.

I checked around and couldn't find any, so I made some pretty easily from a piece of 1/2" steel rod from the junk bin. I drilled a 3/16" hole through the center, split it lengthwise, then crosswise with a hacksaw. Here's what I mean:

[Linked Image]

A bit of poor man's cad (Rustoleum Silver) and they're good to go.

With the coils on, the plug wires were the next problem. The original wires used straight-in connectors and this caused the wires to rub the seam on the bottom of the fuel tank. Here's one of the wires I took off the bike:

[Linked Image]

I made up some wires with 90° ends, and they fit without rubbing.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It's probably been at least 35 yrs since I made a plug wire, so I had to buy some crimpers. This is a pair by Belden, along with the copper core wire, and the boots and terminals I used:

[Linked Image]

Here's the business end for the 90° coil terminals, along with the wire cutter and stripping jaws:

[Linked Image]

Below the pivot point are the jaws for the other style terminals (for either 7 or 8 mm plug wire):

[Linked Image]

Another important tool for the job is some good rubber lube. John Healy promoted the use of this stuff, and I agree with him -- it sure makes life easier:

[Linked Image]

The boots need to be slid onto the wire before you make the terminations (at least for the 90° coil end). The P-80 makes this very easy to do. (Sorry, this picture is a bit out of sequence, but gives the idea):

[Linked Image]

As with any stripper, you don't want to bite the insulation and spin the cable. That can "ring" the copper wire. The jaws are made to cut the insulation without nicking the conductor. Bite, release, turn the wire, and repeat. Three times around the wire, and it comes off cleanly:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I found that 3/4" strip length worked well. (Remember to take this into account when cutting your wires to overall length.) Then you just bend the copper wire back along the cable and hold it while you crimp on the terminal:

[Linked Image]

This picture is kind of dark, but it gives the idea of how it comes out. The brass will curl around, following the jaws, and grip the insulation on the cable. There should be about 1/4" of cable sticking past the terminal. The boots are made to accommodate this:

[Linked Image]
(More to follow)


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#486046 - 04/16/13 10:50 pm Re: Some electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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On the plug end, you do the crimp in two stages, using one part of the crimper to get started, and another (depending on 7 or 8mm wire size) to finish it:

[Linked Image]

Finished, it looks like this, and it is easy to slide the boot into place (maybe with a bit more P-80). The copper wire is bent over and trapped between the terminal and the insulation on the side opposite from the curled crimp:

[Linked Image]

With the coils in place, I pondered a long time and finally decided where to place the Boyer box. Thanks to the coil bracket without the "D" washers, as mentioned earlier, the coil on one side stood far enough out to make room for the box. I drilled a couple small holes through the frame stiffener plate, dabbed in some POR-15 paint, and poked some tie-wraps through. I added a couple strips of foam seal to help dampen vibrations:

[Linked Image]

Because the box extends out past the front of the stiffener plate, the tie-wraps pull it back against the coil bracket. I got around this by adding a couple short pieces of fuel line hose around the tie-wraps:

[Linked Image]

This spot was chosen to hide the box in a place where the wires are nearest to where they need to go.

Another issue was that of the rotary Lucas switches on the sidecover on this bike. There is one for the lights, another for the ignition. Both are Lucas type 88SA (used on many British bikes, even those things called BSA). These puppies are expensive to buy NOS (US $115.00 for the ignition, $150.00 for the light switch). I just knew mine were crap inside, but I wanted to save them if possible. I took the ignition switch apart, only to find that it looked remarkably good inside. Lucas sealed these up pretty well and used dielectric grease. The grease was discolored, but the copper was still fairly bright.

This adventure reminded me of when I was a kid and decided to take apart a pocket watch to see how it worked (that didn't end well), but I got through it O.K. Here's what I did with the ignition switch --

The switch body is die cast pot metal, with the back made of brittle Bakelite. The Bakelite disk is held in via three crimps:

[Linked Image]

What worked well to open the crimps was to clamp a 24mm socket in a vise, sticking barely out to one side. The switch terminal pins will fit inside the socket like this:

[Linked Image]

Then I tapped lightly around the periphery of the crimp with a small hammer:

[Linked Image]

At first, I only opened the crimps enough to get the switch apart. Later I found that re-assembly was easier if the crimps were fully open. This method opened the crimps to where it was difficult to even tell where they had been.

Here's a look at the guts, showing the original grease. Note the open pocket where there was no contact wiper. That's correct. The inside piece of Bakelite is evidently used for different switch bodies. It's a bit easier to see in the second picture below:

[Linked Image]

There are five springs inside that make re-assembly a bit fiddly. Here's where they are located. Also note the slot (picture below) and mating lug (picture above) to orient the position of the Bakelite contact plate:

[Linked Image]

So, I took the switch apart and cleaned everything, adding some fresh dielectric grease and thinking the whole time, "How do I get this thing back together without breaking it?"

The detent ball and spring want to push the disk off center, yet to put the other disk in place, the end of the center shaft must enter a central hole in the disk. The spring on the center shaft wants to keep the back of the switch unseated. All of this needs to be fitted together and then held while fresh crimps are made. The main problem I worried about was breaking the Bakelite back. I figured I needed something that would maintain the shape of the switch body while I made the crimps.

I looked around and found a piece of 1-1/2" black pipe that was slightly smaller ID than the OD of the switch body. I took this to my friend's shop (I don't have a lathe), and we bored the end to 1.450", about .20" deep. The switch body has a lug on the outside:

[Linked Image]

So I used a Dremel to cut a clearance notch inside the pipe. It looked like this:

[Linked Image]

Now the switch body was a very light press fit into the pipe. With the pipe in a vise, and the switch in the end of the pipe, only the very edge of the crimp area was exposed (about .09"). I then assembled the switch and used a socket to push down and compress that pesky center shaft spring. While doing that, I used a small drift and a hammer to form three new crimps:

[Linked Image]

Not quite as pretty as Lucas did at the factory, but it works:

[Linked Image]

The last step was to use the Lucas diagrams on the GABMA site. I found what I needed on page 17 of this .pdf document. It shows which contacts are supposed to be connected by the internal wipers for each of the three switch positions. I checked continuity for every pin at each switch position (also making sure that no continuity existed where it shouldn't) -- not that I thought I had made an assembly error you understand whistle , I was just seeing if the Lucas parts were still any good.

They were bigt

Based upon the internal appearance of the ignition switch, I decided not to disassemble the light switch. Instead, I cleaned the outside thoroughly, and then checked continuity as on the ignition switch. It passed the test and will stay together.

Finally, after a lot of thought, I have decided to modify and re-use my original harness. I am going to buy a proper crimper and some spade terminals, probably from British Wiring.

By the way, you may have read on BritBike that Lucas never soldered their harness connectors. I am here to tell you that, yes -- they did. My harness is original to my 1964 TR6. It has Lucas tags fluttering from the rotted loom weave. There is not a single bullet that was crimped. They were all soldered. Also, while the spade connectors were nicely crimped, there is also a tiny bit of solder on each one. The female spade terminals appear to me as if the copper wire was pushed against the blade and spot welded in place. I'll add some pictures as I clean up the old harness.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#487456 - 04/25/13 11:40 pm Some more electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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Here's the wiring diagram from the FSM, for 1964 Coil Ignition 6-Volt Models:

[Linked Image]

I've been looking at this recently, as well as at the GABMA pages and other places. On my '64 TR6, I'm thinking I will re-use my original harness, but modify it. My harness is original and uncut, but a little tatty from living in a barn. After I die, if somebody in the future cusses me out as a DPO wire mangler, who ruined an original harness, then so be it! I won't be around to hear it anyway! laughing

There's just too much goofy stuff they did in 1964 to make anybody other than a 6V, points only, non-regulated, AC-available-in-emergency, purist want to keep it original.

So I think I will start by removing the hi-lighted wires, along with the rectifier, AAU, and breaker points (there is no Zener to remove, cause it never had one):

[Linked Image]

Notice that this leaves no power (in fact, no wires at all) going to the ignition switch! That is because power was originally fed from the light switch to the ignition switch. IMHO, that was another bit of craziness in 1964. You, or anybody else, could turn the lights on and leave them on, even if the ignition was locked with that little straight-bladed screwdriver type key. I realize you can still do that in even a modern car, but only if the doors are left unlocked. A motorcycle should be dead, dead, dead, when the ignition is off. If anybody is crazy enough to leave parking lights on when they break down, they can turn the key on as well. In my book, all the parking lights did was attract thieves with trucks. But I guess it was a law back when these bikes were built.

Here's a partial edit I made after taking out the hi-lighted wires. Note that I added in the alternate positions of the switch wipers, both ignition and lighting, (but left off the ignition emergency position, which cannot be used with EI anyway). Notice the light switch alternate position labels at the bottom of the diagram. The one on the left says, "Pilot, Tail, and Gage Lights ON":

[Linked Image]

That bit about having the gage lights come on when the lighting switch is in the pilot and tail light position makes no sense to me. If there is enough daylight that you don't need the headlight on, there is no reason to waste precious amperage from the less-than-robust charging system, no matter how slight, by lighting up the speedo and tach in broad daylight. That would be changed in the diagram below.

Here's another work in process version of the diagram.

DISCLAIMER -- REFERENCE ONLY -- I'M NOT DONE HERE YET!

Also, before anyone yells SPG, it will be, I just didn't mess up the diagram by drawing it that way. Actually, as Stuart has pointed out several times in the past, the Lucas harness came with red ground wires for nearly everything, even in 1964:

[Linked Image]

Stuff I'm still thinking about that is not shown here:
  • I still intend to use relays for the hi/lo beams on the headlight, and for the horn.
  • I want to add a volt-meter or at least a battery condition light.
  • I may leave the ammeter in place for decoration, but not actually wire through it. The one I have is a re-pop and I don't trust it much. I do still have the original Lucas gage, but it looks pretty nasty.
  • I'm still shopping for a fuse block I like. I've looked at dozens but have found something I don't like about them all. The fuse shown in the +ve leg will be the "main" fuse, rated at 15A. The others will all have lesser ratings, sized as needed for the various branch circuits. (Not shown on here yet.)
  • I'm thinking about a real, key-type ignition switch, though I'd like to leave the original switch in place.
  • With the horn operated by a relay, the horn relay should only be operable when the ignition switch is ON. A fused wire that actually supplies the power (switched by the horn relay) to the horn could bypass the ammeter if necessary. (Not yet shown that way here.)
  • The brake light should only be operable when the ignition switch is ON. (Not yet shown that way here.)
  • There should be a grounding kill button on the black/yellow wire for the Boyer system (Not yet shown that way here.)
  • Probably a few other things I can't think of right now.


The reason for all the various fuses: I once had a 2000 Harley Davidson Ultra Classic. I kept it 10 years and put 60,000 miles on it, but it is absolutely the last new Harley I will ever purchase. I had more trouble with it over those ten years than any other single vehicle of any kind that I have ever owned. One niggling problem (compared to all the others) was the little light in the tip of the front fender.

It was on a circuit with the headlight, protected by a 10A fuse. That fuse would blow frequently and put out the headlight. The bike was under warranty and the dealer could find no faults in the circuit. Eventually, we unhooked the fender tip light while replacing the front tire (it was not easy to get to the connection with the tire in place) and the fuse never blew. That is, never until the next tire change when the helpful tech noticed the light was unplugged and reconnected it. When the headlight fuse blew again, I told the service manager I wanted it fixed properly. He said that he had started putting in a 15A fuse and had no problems. The fuse was "on the edge" with its rating. Though I was leery of this, we did it and there was never a problem again.

Point is, that stupid, unnecessary, marker light repeatedly took out my headlight. Not fun at night, at speed, though I had flood lights I could run with fairly well. I think the headlight needs its own fuse. Likewise, it would be bad for a short to take out a gage light fuse and kill the tail light at night.

My 2c on fuses.

As the Brits say, Cheers!

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#489366 - 05/08/13 5:42 pm Re: Some electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by TR6Ray
By the way, you may have read on BritBike that Lucas never soldered their harness connectors. I am here to tell you that, yes -- they did. My harness is original to my 1964 TR6. It has Lucas tags fluttering from the rotted loom weave. There is not a single bullet that was crimped. They were all soldered. Also, while the spade connectors were nicely crimped, there is also a tiny bit of solder on each one. The female spade terminals appear to me as if the copper wire was pushed against the blade and spot welded in place. I'll add some pictures as I clean up the old harness.

The harness isn't cleaned up, but here are the pictures I mentioned earlier of the original Lucas connections:

This is typical of the male spade terminals and the eyelet terminals. They are crimped onto the insulation and to the wire, then soldered:

[[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The female spade terminals are crimped to the insulation, then the wire is spot welded to the terminal:

[Linked Image]

All the bullets are soldered like these. Here you can see no crimp marks, and there is a dab of solder out the end of the bullet:

[Linked Image]


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#490603 - 05/18/13 9:36 pm Even More electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Still no work done on the electrics, but some more thinkin' about it. I was going to use a Hella 8 position fuse holder (wired from the sides), and mount it on the front of the battery box. Turns out it is too big from back to front and would foul the frame center post. I got a 5 position holder instead, from O'Reilly Auto. This one wires from the back, which will be the bottom in this case, and will be mounted with the lid facing upward:

[Linked Image]

I'll make a couple little brackets and hang it from the battery box front crossbar. Wires will hook on from below. The wires can then be tie wrapped to the frame center post to help prevent the spade connectors from coming apart.

Putting the fuse block in front of the battery box means the Pod needs to go elsewhere, so I'll hang it from the bottom of the battery box as many have done.

I decided I needed a wiring diagram that would document the changes I am about to make to the electrical system. This will help keep me straight as I make the changes, and be a reference later on -- either for me, or for someone else if I ever sell the bike. My problem with plain old schematic diagrams is that two points shown in electrical continuity may be spread way apart on the bike, and the schematic doesn't necessarily show the wire routing or the intervening connectors. I tried to make up a diagram that is slightly more related to how the electrical system is spread out on the frame, sort of a pictogram if you will. I made it in four pages, each 8 1/2" x 11".

Page #1 only shows the tail lamp / stop lamp and the related little harnesses for them. The stop lamp will be controlled by a relay, which is only active when the ignition is on. This same relay will supply the horn as well. Hence the stop lamp and horn will both be dead when the key is off.

Here's Page #1:

[Linked Image]

Page 2 has more of the guts of the system, including the battery, alternator, Podtronic R/R, fuse block connections, etc. This is also the start of the main harness, which will run on forward into the headlight. So, where the harness goes off the right edge of page #2, it comes in on the left edge of page #3. Fuse ratings shown here are only a WAG. I'll need to figure out later what is appropriate, but all are of lesser rating than the main fuse between the +ve battery post and the ground stud. Also, the ignition and light switches are the original ones from this bike. I am only showing the pin connections I will be using. They are shown on this page because they are mounted on the left side cover.

Here's page 2:

[Linked Image]

Page #3 shows the ignition system connections and the horn.

[Linked Image]

Page #4 shows the stuff up front. I cheated and left some of the wires off the picture, but covered them in notes on the page.

[Linked Image]

So, not elegant, but I think I can work from it. Next step is to finish dissecting the harness, clean all the terminals, and make up whatever new connections are needed. I have already carefully cut off what was left of the cloth loom, and taken pictures of everything. I also have a written record of where every bit of wire (of each color) went on the original system.

I found that the wires are removable from the ignition and lighting switch plugs. I'll be taking them all out of the plugs, cleaning them, and re-installing the ones I want to use.

I still need to order crimping pliers, some wire, and some connectors from British Wiring. I waited till I had my diagram sketched out so I can (hopefully) get all I need in one order.

Cheers,

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#490633 - 05/19/13 8:00 am Re: Even More electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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R Moulding Online content
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Christchurch NZ

Your a far smarter man than I, Ray. Well done!

Rod

#490651 - 05/19/13 1:57 pm Re: Even More electrical stuff [Re: TR6Ray]  
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GrandPaul Online content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I can almost hear it running...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#491863 - 05/27/13 3:56 am Battery box mods [Re: GrandPaul]  
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It seems that half the battle, so far, with electrical changes is figuring out where to hide the new stuff. My '64 battery box is very small. I maybe should make a new one to hold a bigger battery, but will try to make the original one work. A lot of people put their Podtronics Regulator/Rectifier on the bottom of the battery box. Because the '64 box is so small, I was going to put mine on the front instead. Then I decided to put a fuse box there, so it's back to the bottom with the reg/rect.

The smart way to attach the reg/rect is to drill a couple holes and file them square to accept carriage bolts. That leaves the carriage bolt heads sticking up and the battery has to sit on them. A rubber pad with two clearance holes cut out will take care of that. However, I'm not that smart, so I went to a little more trouble.

I had some 1/4-20 flat head, countersink machine screws around, so I used them. With two holes laid out and drilled through the bottom of the box, I dropped the bolts through and surrounded them on the bottom side with some big oversize flat washers. On top of those washers went a smaller washer and a nut. Then I tightened the heck out of the nuts till the countersink heads came flat with the inside of the battery box, like this:

[Linked Image]

Since the bottom of the battery box is double thickness plate, I could not quite form the countersink areas strictly by tightening the little bolts. A few taps of my trusty hammer on a drift finished the job. Of course, all this made some bulges sticking out the bottom, but I had a plan for that. While not absolutely needed, I've read it's a good idea to have some sort of heat sink for the regulator, especially since this one will be somewhat shielded from the air stream. So I cut one from some 3/16 aluminum. It wound up being 3" x 5", so about 15 square inches, before the corners were dubbed off a bit. I countersunk the holes in the heat sink plate for clearance like this:

[Linked Image]

The heat sink plate extends a little forward of the battery box, but doesn't look too bad. That area is hidden anyway. It gives the reg/rect a good place to bolt up. The heat sink plate and the reg/rect have to be staggered forward to clear the slope of the rear fender (mud guard) angling down directly behind them. In this picture, my hand is on the back of the battery box, where the fender will be. It is a very close fit but has just enough clearance:

[Linked Image]

Next, I formed up a little bracket out of some 22 gage steel to hold the small fuse block. It is bead blasted, but not yet painted black. The tab on the right hand side is to mount a relay for the horn and stop light circuit:

[Linked Image]

To fasten this stuff together, I'll use some stainless steel hardware, but I filed the markings off the heads and bead blasted them to look (somewhat) like cad plated hardware. The bolt to the left is what I started with. At least they won't rust, and I got some Nylok nuts to try to keep them together:

[Linked Image]

The fuse block and the relay will attach with their male spade connectors sticking down. Here's a view from the bottom side where the wires will attach:

[Linked Image]

Finally, here's a shot of the battery box assembly, with the fuse block and relay loosely attached to the bracket, and the bracket hung onto the battery box cross-bar:

[Linked Image]

There is just enough clearance for my fat fingers to squeeze the plastic lid on top of the fuse block to unsnap and remove it. The center post of the main frame comes up directly in front of the fuse block, which should be a good spot to tie-wrap some wires, leaving them with a bit of slack.

My wire, terminals, insulators and fancy ratcheting crimping pliers just came in from British Wiring. I'm anxious to start running some wire. There are two more relays to locate, but they will be going inside the headlight bucket. I think there is clearance to attach one each side to the mounting ear bolts. Triumph made those bolts a bit long -- perhaps thinking somebody might have a use for them someday?

Cheers,

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#495926 - 06/30/13 5:45 am Wired up [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: May 2010
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Posts: 2,547
Illinois, USA
Long time with no update, but I haven't been completely idle.

I mentioned before that I took the Lucas rotary type 88SA ignition switch apart and managed to get it back together okay. The wires that I removed from the connector plugs on the ignition and light switches were all dark greenish brown/black with copper oxide (I like the term "verdi gris" as Tridentman once called it). This is a highly sought-after look for copper roofs, but not for wire terminals. I did not want to damage these terminals, because I haven't seen them available for sale. I cleaned the old ones with some ZEP Aluminum Brightener, disobeying the rules and using it full strength, but I did wear latex gloves. I didn't leave it on very long, maybe 5 minutes max, and scrubbed the terminals inside and out with a pipe cleaner soaked in the stuff. I also cleaned the rest of the wire insulation with mineral spirits. This was all followed by a good water rinse. They cleaned up pretty well:

[Linked Image]

That little tang on the backside is what holds the connector inside the plug. There is a tiny access opening on each hole in the plug where you can poke in a small seal pick, depress the tang, and pull the wire out. After cleaning each one, I used a knife to gently lift the tang out a bit, making sure it would engage the plug when it went back together.

If you looked at my previous stuff about 1964 wiring, I mentioned that a lot of original wires were unnecessary and that I was going to remove them. I re-used what I could, re-purposing some of the wires and marking up my diagrams for color codes. Here's a bit of green/black with a new 1/4" spade connector and sleeve from British Wiring crimped onto one end:

[Linked Image]

I don't like bare wires clipped here and there, even when out of sight, but I despise that round, ribbed, semi-flexible plastic conduit. I used to work with a Cuban engineer who called that stuff "gator dick", which I thought was a good name for it. I looked around and found this stuff:

[Linked Image]

It is made by TechFlex, and I bought some through Grainger Industrial Supply. It is pretty good stuff and although it is woven plastic, it looks like loom weave. The good thing is that it works like those Chinese finger trap toys for kids. Push it together and it expands, let go and it returns to the original shape and size. The size I got is 1/2" I.D., but it could easily enclose a big Lucas bullet connector and snug itself down around the rest of the harness if I wanted it to. Here it is partially expanded.

[Linked Image]

I had a number of spots along the harness where I needed to have one or more wires break out of the loom. I could have done that with this wrap, but TechFlex also makes something called FlexWrap. I bought some of that in 1/2" nominal I.D., that would fit a range from 3/8" up to 3/4". I found this too bulky and exchanged it for some with 3/8" nominal I.D. This works pretty well, allowing breakout wires as well as the abililty to add/remove wires later. I found that this material has very good memory and returns to its original shape. It works like the gator dick stuff only it is easier to install, is more flexible, and just looks better.

[Linked Image]

Here's an example of a breakout wire. The gator dick conduit is pretty harsh, and you really need to protect where there is a breakout wire, at least make a little hole for it. There is no need with FlexWrap:

[Linked Image]

I also used some vinyl sleeving from British Wiring. They have it in a variety of sizes. I used 10 mm I.D. stuff for the front of the main harness where it goes from the coil area under the tank and on up to the headlight. This is where the original Lucas harness also had vinyl. The Lucas stuff was in remarkably good shape and had a little heavier wall thickness. I almost re-used it, but decided to go with the new. Here's the harness(es) up front, going into the headlight. Besides the main harness, there is also the dipper harness, a kill switch harness, and the gage lights harness with added ground wire.

[Linked Image]

Because the gage lamp harness would have had an exposed upper end, I wrapped that bit with TechFlex. I was worried that a vinyl tube would collect water and carry it into the headlight bucket. One advantage of the TechFlex wrap is that it will not hold or conduct moisture. The other bits here are run in 6 mm I.D. vinyl. (There is also a speedo and brake cable shown here.)

I finally put in the Boyer Bransden stator/rotor, which allowed me to close up the old points cavity in the timing cover. I cut off the BB bullets and replaced them with spade crimps from British Wiring. I also used a dab of silicone where the harness goes into the backside of the timing cover. The unit is static timed, to be strobed if the old lump ever runs again.

[Linked Image]

I used new wires and vinyl sleeving for the BB stator leads, but with a nod to political correctness, I re-used the old aluminum tie wraps on the front frame tube. At the bottom, the tie wrap encompasses both the harness and the speedo, as per factory (or at least the way I found it):

[Linked Image]

Up top, by the petrol tank mount, only the harness is under the tie-wrap. The speedo cable is clipped to the steering dampener. Again, as per factory (or at least the way I found it):

[Linked Image]

I found it convenient for tie-wrapping purposes (I cheated and used modern plastic zip ties where they don't show) to bring the BB stator harness up and through the frame onto the drive side, alongside the main harness. Here's the DS wiring:

[Linked Image]

This also shows the new ground (earth) wires for the coil and engine (on the head steady) that were not there before. And the next picture shows the TS wiring. The plastic sheathed spade connectors are the stator leads connected to the BB control box leads. The Boyer white lead is encased in vinyl back to where it enters the FlexWrap of the main harness. This was one example of a breakout wire:

[Linked Image]

I mounted the horn up front, which is wrong for a 1964 650 twin, but it should be louder, and I needed the space back under the battery box for wires. Because it is in the wrong place, I mounted it flat so that it almost disappears when the tank is in place. I made up a little clip to keep the horn from vibrating around on its single mounting bolt, but that isn't in place yet. I haven't gotten around to painting it. The horn harness is lying there waiting -- another example of wires breaking out from the main harness.

[Linked Image]

All this leads back toward the battery area, where the new fuse block is mounted. Here's a shot of the fuse block. I left enough slack in the wires that I can unfasten the fuse block and lift it up about 4 inches for access. What looks like a big, fat, white wire on the top frame rail is actually the rocker box lube line. I re-used the old one. Like on my wiring diagram, there are 8 wires connected here (4 fused circuits). I have gone back and edited my wiring diagrams in an earlier post to show the rest of the color codes for the wires. I made a few other minor edits there as well. The center fuse position is empty -- storage for a spare fuse. There is also a separate 15A main fuse in a holder in the lead between the battery +ve terminal and the ground stud which I have added.

[Linked Image]

The harness and lube line are routed as they were when the bike came out of the barn, only they're a little different.

[Linked Image]

A few other things, where I neglected to take pictures:

  • The headlight is all connected up, using two automotive relays inside the bucket (one for High beam, one for Low). I simply nested them in with the other wires. I don't think they will have opportunity to rattle around much with all the crap I have in there. Still, it is spacious compared to, say, an old CB450 Honda.

  • I used a grounding type kill button, purchased from eBay. This is mounted on the RH handlebar, near the choke lever. Onto this button, I added a black/yellow wire, inside a vinyl sleeve, that runs down into the headlight bucket. There it connects via a Lucas 2-way bullet to another black/yellow lead that runs inside the main harness back to the BB control box. It is double crimped onto a spade terminal along with the lead from the BB control box. The stator lead connects to this with a female spade crimp.

  • Since the kill switch and the horn switch (part of the dipper assembly) rely on the handle bars for a return path, I added a red ground (earth) wire from one of the p-clamp bolts. It is on the bottom and out of sight. This goes into the headlight bucket and is one of 6 wires in a 6-way bullet connector. One lead from this connector extends back through the main harness to a ground stud near the battery -- the same place to which the battery +ve connects via the main fuse.

  • Even though I drew detailed plans and followed them (what an absolute necessity that was) I still didn't manage to order everything in one batch from British Wiring. In fact, order number FIVE should arrive Monday. All I'm short is one 4-way bullet connector, but I ordered some spares on the rest of the stuff. Unbelievable how disorganized I can be. Of course there is at least $10 shipping for each order! eek


Finally, I have to thank MotorEddy for posting the picture of his finished bike. He did an excellent job on it, and it is hard to quit looking at the picture -- a SWEET looking bike it is. However the main reason I need to thank him is that while staring at his bike picture, I had an epiphany!

While I was happy with the way most of my wiring job turned out, I was having difficulty tucking and tie-wrapping the wires under the fuse block to my satisfaction. I was considering fabbing up a cover to mount on the frame center post to hide them, but didn't think that would look right either. Then, looking at Eddy's TR6, I noticed a fundamental difference. I suddenly realized what would hide all those wires very nicely.

I simply need to PUT THE CARBURETOR AND AIR FILTER ON THERE! crazy shocked blush laughing

I've gotten so used to looking at my bike with a paper towel stuffed into the inlet manifold that I guess I thought it was normal that way. I forgot what it looks like with the carb and filter in place! DUH! That's the next step. Thanks, Eddy, and congratulations on your nice work. I hope you enjoy that TR6 to the fullest.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#495972 - 06/30/13 1:27 pm Re: Wired up [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: Sep 2005
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T140V-Rich Offline
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T140V-Rich  Offline

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Sunny South Carolina, (US)
As always Ray, just blown away by your attention to the smallest of details. And, I believe I could use some Techflex on mine in certain areas for extra protection, such as the entry hole for the harness into the headlamp shell. Besides, it looks so doggone good! Great work.

Cheers

Richard


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
#496674 - 07/05/13 9:21 pm Re: Wired up [Re: T140V-Rich]  
Joined: May 2010
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Thanks, Richard.

Well, the USPS came back from their holiday and brought the stuff from British Wiring that was supposed to be here 4 days ago. With that in hand, I finished the last couple connections and had a minor success!

I haven't bought a battery for the TR6 yet, but I made up some temporary leads to hook the bike up to a battery sitting on a table next to the bike (this battery is too big to go into the TR6 tray).

When I turn on the ignition switch, I can hear the horn/brake light relay click on as it should. Turn the light switch one click and I get pilot and tail lamp. Turn it another click and the pilot goes out, the tail lamp stays on, and the headlight and gage lights come on. The button on the dipper honks the horn as it should. Press the rear brake and the brake lamp comes on. Turn the igninition switch off, and it kills all circuits. So all as I intended, and good on the first try!

Well, almost. I'd be lying if I didn't mention that I reversed the leads for hi/lo beam, and for the ammeter. The dipper and ammeter work just fine, only backwards. A quick trip back into the headlight bucket will cure those two ills. I'm just tickled to see no smoke leaking out anywhere, and to have the bike lit up for the first time since 1971 (electrically anyhow).

Now the old girl still needs some cables (as in clutch, throttle, and choke). Then I gotta look at that AMAL that I put into a coffee can several years ago. Then comes the real test.

Baby steps, baby steps.

Cheers, Ray

{Edit} Ammeter and dipper wires flipped, and they are working correctly now.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#497032 - 07/08/13 9:43 am Re: Wired up [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
Its at that point when it tantalisingly close, I use the 7ah alarm gel batteries that are cheap and they seem to work well. According to the spec they should not work but using them in practise says they do and no spilt acid to spoil all the hard work you have put in. Only issue is they use spade connectors not rings.

#498289 - 07/19/13 2:22 pm Re: Wired up [Re: kommando]  
Joined: May 2010
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Joined: May 2010
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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by kommando
Its at that point when it tantalisingly close, I use the 7ah alarm gel batteries that are cheap and they seem to work well. According to the spec they should not work but using them in practise says they do and no spilt acid to spoil all the hard work you have put in. Only issue is they use spade connectors not rings.

Thanks, kommando, and sorry I took so long to respond. I have read on other forums (fora?) about people using those batteries. One guy said that his workplace uses them in their UPS's (uninterruptable power supplies) for their computers. These get replaced on a yearly basis, and he can have as many to take home as he wants. He simply crimped female spade connectors on his motorcycle battery leads, and they work great. In my case, believe it or not, there is not room for one. I have looked at a very wide range of batteries that will fit my shelf and, all things considered, I believe I am going to try a MotoBatt MB5U, which should be a perfect fit. It only carries a 7AH rating, but we'll see how that works out. I'm glad to hear that your 7AH battery works well for you. I only plan on daytime use, running with the pilot on to satisfy the law. Two respected sources, Stuart and Redmoggy, have indicated that MotoBatt makes a good AGM battery.

Speaking of amperes, after I got my harness in place, I tried out my little Sperry Digital MM. It has a ring clamp that you can put around a single conductor and it will read out the DC amps flowing through said wire. It even shows direction of flow (+/-). I placed it around the main -ve battery lead and checked what I was getting with various loads. In the process, I found that it agreed closely with my el cheapo re-pop ammeter in the headlight. There's no surprisingly new information here, but just for reference, this is what I measured:

  • Turning on my ignition switch, with everything else shut off, there is one relay activated. It simply connects fused power to the horn and stop lamp circuit. This allows the horn and stop lamp to be shut off when the key is off. When first activated, the relay draws 2.95A for about one second. Then, with its armature pulled into place, it settles to .20A and stays there.
  • With the horn/stop lamp relay active, turning on the standard, incandescent pilot and tail lamp kicks the draw up to 1.06A. (1.06-.20=.86A for the pilot and tail lamp ).
  • Another click of the lighting switch, and the pilot goes out, the tail lamp stays on, and the gage lamps and low beam headlight come on. Of course the horn/stop lamp relay is still drawing .20A. The total now reads 5.15A.
  • Flipping to high beam is nearly the same, at 5.20A.
  • With everything turned off again, except for the horn/stop lamp rely, when I honk the horn the draw is 2.20A.
  • With just the horn/stop lamp relay active, stepping on the rear brake kicks the draw to 2.16A.
  • A combination of brake lamp on, horn honking, and the relay showed a reading of 4.08A.
  • Finally, with high beam, tail light, gage lamps, horn relay, brake lamp all turned on and the horn honking, I got a reading of 8.85A. Note that this is without the ignition system draw because the Boyer powers off without rotational signal.



My normally devoted shop assistant found all this honking to be beyond the pale, and elected to go elsewhere for a nap.

[Linked Image]

Aside from that, I deduced that I had used too small a wire for my -ve battery lead. The original harness had two leads (in a common crimp) emanating from the -ve battery post. One went to the horn and stop lamp (neither of which were supplied with power passing through the headlight ammeter). The other lead went to the headlight ammeter and then to the rest of the bike. I opted for only one lead on the battery, and that was a mistake. I took this single lead to a 4-way bullet connector and split it there with one lead to the horn/stop lamp circuit and the other to the ammeter. While it is more convenient to have only one lead at the battery post, I had effectively cut the ampacity of the wire in half. All this would be okay if I had used a larger conductor from the battery to the snap connector, but what I used was a piece of wire from the original harness. So . . . one more order to British Wiring to get some Brown/blue 28/.3 (rated for 17.5A) and replace that smaller lead.

Meanwhile, I've been reading and fretting over fuel lines and ferrules, control cables and ferrules, and not getting much accomplished. I do have a few leads going though.

Later.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#499652 - 07/30/13 2:32 am Misc then into the AMAL [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: May 2010
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TR6Ray Online content
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TR6Ray  Online Content

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Illinois, USA
Well, since last update, I replaced the -ve battery cable with heavier wire and called it good for the wiring (unless proven wrong later).

When I first started this project, in my naivety, I ordered five of the six cables I wanted to replace (speedo, tach, clutch, throttle, and front brake). I achieved a perfect score -- none of them were usable. I know now that Venhill, Flanders, and Motion Pro will make custom cables, and that is likely the way to go. But, I decided that I want to make my own. Flanders sells a solder pot for about US $200.00 and it may be great, but that seems a little steep. I made one for free with stuff I had around. I also sent off to Venhill for one of their bird caging tools. I will put up pictures when the birdcage tool arrives.

I spent some time studying Flanders' web site to see what cable parts I need to order. It seemed it would be better if I could see the stuff before I bought it, so I clicked their site to find a local dealer. Surprise! There is one, and it's a guy I was acquainted with. He's been set up as a dealer for Flanders for a long time. His Dad ran the local Ducati shop years ago. He told me they also sold Greeves, Matchless, Montessa, and a few other makes, "back in the day".

So I went to see him and we quickly made up the cables I need, except for soldering. I'll do that when the birdcage tool arrives. One cool thing was that he and his brother have been collecting race memorabilia for a long time. Hanging on the wall are the race leathers from four names you may recognize. In all cases, these were the leathers they wore when they were carrying the #1 as National champions. How about Steve Eklund, Kenny Roberts, Jay Springsteen, and (my favorite of all time) Ricky Graham? Sorry, didn't have my camera!

For fuel lines, I bought some clear stuff from Klempf's. The challenge now is finding the proper ferrules. Mitch had some, but I believe they are a bit large on their ID, and are short on their length. He warned me about the finish before I asked about them.

[Linked Image]

On the left is one of my old crimps cleaned up. I think it was originally cad plated brass. The plating is gone. I could re-use the old crimps but I'm looking for some that are at least zinc plated, or stainless steel. McMaster Carr and others have them in brass. I still have not found any the proper size. The new clear fuel line is 5/16" I.D. and thick walled, but maybe .020" smaller O.D. than the old lines.

I also have a crimper coming from British Cycle, but don't have it here yet. I want to verify the size range on it before I try to chase down the proper crimps.

I almost re-used my old connecting pipes with some black fuel line and the old crimps, but I want the clear stuff at least initially. Somehow it has that Brit look. More on that next time. As you can see below, the cad is gone off the copper elbows and the brass nuts, so I got some new from Klempf's.

I have my original Ewart petcocks and may fool with them later on. They are tapered brass on brass, complete with hard-as-glass O-rings (no cork involved here). I think they might work with some lapping and some fresh O-rings. For now, I bought a BAP set from Mitch. They are about 3/4" longer, but I think that will be okay on my single carb TR6. They also don't have the original look, but are reported to not leak (internally or externally), which I find important.

[Linked Image]

So, onward to the AMAL. Here are some pre-teardown pictures, showing the original petcocks, crimps, and fuel line routing:

Timing side:

[Linked Image]

Drive side:

[Linked Image]

A long time ago, I stuck the carb in a coffee can and put it on a shelf. Now it's time to have a look at it. Hmmmm, I see I didn't clean it before I put it on the shelf:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This is the first AMAL carb I have ever touched, so I did some reading on it.

It's a 389/97 Monobloc. In cleaning it up, I found the model stamped on the top of the mounting flange. On the bottom of the flange, there is a 2/64 date stamp. Choke size = 1.125 (1 1/8).

Before I took it apart, I made note of the settings:

  • Throttle stop screw was 3 1/2 turns out from bottom
  • Air screw was 1 1/2 turns out from bottom
  • Needle clip was in second groove from the top (five grooves present).
  • Cutaway is 3 1/2
  • Pilot jet = 25
  • Main jet = 300
  • Needle jet = 106T

The float and needle valve are the original plastic / nylon, and appear to be in perfect condition. (I think I will replace with stay up float and viton tipped needle anyway.)

There was no safety wire on the three float bowl screws, and no holes for safety wire either. These screws will be replaced because the heads are rust pitted.

The mounting flange is dead flat, so no one over-tightened the mounting bolts which happens so often. Consequently the slide is free moving in the bore (after some cleaning, but no abrasives). Checking the slide and its bore with my friends mic and dial bore gage, the slide measures 1.4315 diameter. The bore is .0015 to .0020 bigger, when checking from front to back. Side to side in the bore, there is .0080 to .0100 clearance. I've read that .0035 clearance is desirable, but I plan to lube the slide lightly with white lithium grease and see how it works out. It goes up and down under its own weight, and doesn't feel like the movement is excessive. We'll see.

I ordered some pin gages to check the needle jet. They have not arrived yet, but my friend had a nice new #36 drill. Like Pete R has said on here before, this makes a good go/no-go gage for a 106 jet. The shank (.105"+)is a nice slip fit through the jet. The flutes (.1065") will not enter the jet. I'm calling it good. (I know -- I have read all the posts about not using old brass, but you can say, "I told you so" later!)

The needle mics at .0984, so .0001 undersize. I understand that the stainless steel needle itself rarely wears out. It is normally the softer brass jet that wears.

Here's what I have after some cleaning and polishing:

[Linked Image]

The little pile of bits at the lower right are the old gaskets and some corroded external parts for which I have ordered replacements. I also managed to mess up the air control spring, so that's in the replacement pile too.

So, a fairly simple carburetor, but one that often has users tearing their hair out. That part will come later.

Meanwhile, the PO (in this case, the original owner) came over to see what it looks like. I've kept in contact and showed him the paint parts and so forth, but this is the first time he has seen the bike since the day of the fake alligator tears back in 2009 when he sold me the old bike:

[Linked Image]

There were no tears on Sunday. He looked really happy, which made me feel pretty good as well. We had a good visit:

[Linked Image]

I'm still chasing some parts and tools, but the end is in sight. I know, first startup and tuning and other fettling will probably take me a long time too. I'm just itching to get this thing out into the sunlight.

Cheers, Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
#499697 - 07/30/13 9:10 am Re: Misc then into the AMAL [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,830
R Moulding Online content
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R Moulding  Online Content
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Christchurch NZ

I still think you have the patience of a saint, Ray! I know you will want to make your own, but check out Tri-Core website. They have clear fuel line sets already made and are a perfect fit.

Nice to have the date stamp on that carb, even better to find it's flat. I bent mine before i knew better!

All the best
Rod

#499718 - 07/30/13 1:01 pm Re: Misc then into the AMAL [Re: R Moulding]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 742
Dave M Online content
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Dave M  Online Content
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USA
Great work Ray, beautiful! beerchug


66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona

#499749 - 07/30/13 5:02 pm Re: Misc then into the AMAL [Re: TR6Ray]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,887
Scotland
The BAP taps do not leak and I use them on all my bikes since they came available in the 80's but there do look to be good UK made full brass taps available which I will be trying on my T120R.

Just one seller among many.

http://www.eBay.co.uk/itm/140845088964?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

#499887 - 07/31/13 3:28 pm Re: Misc then into the AMAL [Re: kommando]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,547
TR6Ray Online content
BritBike Forum member
TR6Ray  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,547
Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by Redmoggy
I know you will want to make your own, but check out Tri-Core website. They have clear fuel line sets already made and are a perfect fit.


Hey Rod, if I had realized that, I probably would have gone that route. In reading here and on the Rat, it seemed people were searching out the component pieces instead of the assembly. It's good to hear that you have used them and they fit. Not knowing that, I would be leery of ordering anything pre-assembled -- especially from across the pond. If my crimper ever arrives, I have found a source for the proper sized crimp fittings. That should let me renew the lines as often as necessary and make them the length I want them to be. Still, for anybody else doing this, the assembly ready-made from Tricor would be the way to go Tricor fuel line for TR6. I'm not impressed with their individual crimps though.

Dave: Thanks for the comment. I'm enjoying watching your build.

Kommando: It's good to hear that your BAP taps are working well for you. I'm not wild about the way they look, but I have had a petcock on another bike go bad after only a month in service (the ethanol ate the rubber inside). I discovered it by a trail of gasoline trickling across the garage floor. That one got replaced by a Pingel for big money, as it was the only thing available to fit. I'd prefer not to burn the house down, so if the BAP taps don't leak, I'll learn to like the way they look.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
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