Hi, some of you will remember some posts from me over the last couple of years regarding my T140V running issues.Got fed up with getting nowhere last year and parked it (before I destroyed it....seriously!!!)Hoping for some more wisdom please guys....Restored the bike about three years ago and have never had her running right. Earlier this year I had another go and for a while she seemed to be ok..ish!! still temperamental at starting, but when running seemed fine until I got home from work a couple of weeks ago and she stalled in the drive and would not start again. Put it down to the fact that she did'nt like starting when hot and just pushed her in the garage. Next day I got her to start but as soon as i give her any throttle misfires real bad, like she struggling to run on one cylinder.Any way, jumping forward a little...Decided it got to be ignition (as I've pissed about with the carb's more times than I can remember!!!) So just fitted a new Tri-spark EI, Tri-Spark 6V coils, new N3 plugs, new leads...and...still no change(could put a lotta swear words here!!!)So what gives guys??? Seems as though right pipe is a little hotter than left after a few sec's, HT testers are both flashing, removed plugs (after a few sec's and left is wet and a little 'dirty', right is dry and clean!! Mk1 Amals have been cleaned (loads of times) including 'poking' the idle jet through.New needles (set at stock setting) new needle jets, main jets,floats(0.80" down from bowl edge) float needles and slides. (all genuine AMAL) Slides open simultaneously and the mixture screws are one and a half turns out (choke IS off) Re-checked all the connections Think that covers it... I am seriously at my wits end, if bike had not cost me so much, it would be in the quarry now... But I want to sort it and enjoy it so any help would be hugely appreciated.... Oh, new EI replaced a Boyer Micro digital (new at rebuild!) Thanks Jel
Doubt its your problem but that is a starting point only, once the engine is warm you adjust for best tickover speed and then take the tickover speed down using the throttle stop screws. Each carb will end up with a different number of turns out.
I always start with the simple cheap things first. Keep a couple of sets of fresh plugs around. When the symptoms start, change them. I've seen too many sparkplug lead shorts to count, so that gets attention right away. Switches on these bikes get old and funky but most of them can be cleaned. I've diagnosed these kinds of problems before the bike has coasted to a stop just by popping off the gas cap. (blocked vent) Fine rust in the tank will ruin your day also. I've had two bikes in the last year chew and swallow the intake gaskets.....?!? Weak charging systems are a real bugaboo on these old bikes. I use a volt meter on the handlebar just to monitor things. You'd be surprised how many faults can be diagnosed by just watching that thing. And patience. This is the key ingredient. And persistence. Also, the best tool I have is this forum. Cheers, Bill
Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 07/29/131:52 am.
Bikes 1974 Commando 1985 Honda Nighthawk 650 1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger" Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Three different bikes, Triumph, Norton and BSA, same symptoms, intermittent poor running, hard to start and dying. Would come and go with no rhyme or reason. In all three cases it was the ignition switch.
+1. Check what the EI box is actually getting for voltage. The feed from the battery has to go through a number of connectors plus ignition switch, fuse, kill button, etc so there's quite a bit of scope for voltage drop, which EI are particularly susceptible to. Remember also, the ground return wire/s are part of the SAME CIRCUIT.
Just recently I saw a miniature LED voltmeter and thought how good it would be wired to the power feed at the EI box and ground. Go for a ride and see if volts move out of acceptable range under all conditions. Just a thought and I haven't tried this.
I had a similar problem with my T140. I installed a Pazon. Turned out the battery wasn't being charged enough to provide good spark. Run and die, acted like it was starving for fuel. With the battery charged it started and ran fine. The short was in the ignition switch.
1:Instant/easy battery check: see if turn signals work and horn honks. 2: Drain float bowls and check flow. 3: Change plugs. 4: Spritz of carb cleaner into carb mouths, throttle open. 5: Kick engine over with battery charger connected to 1st coil lead and ground. 6: More beer Bob
thanks for the replies, tryed new plugs straight away, champion N3, and NGk B8's, no change. also changed leads and caps. New (better quality) ignition switch has been fitted. Wiring should be ok as new loom was fitted at rebuild, kill switch has been by-passed all together. Getting full voltage to EI. One of the reasons I changed to the Tri-Spark is because apparantly they will work even with voltage as low as 7 volts!!
Banging my head on the wall because i feel I have covered everything!!!
Last edited by Jel; 07/29/138:15 am.
Re: T140 STILL.....Won't run right!!!!!
#499518 07/29/138:54 am07/29/138:54 am
With respect, that the problem appears to be with the left cylinder would rule out most of the electrics, simply because most of the electrics - battery, wiring, ignition switch, e.i., low-tension supply to the coils, etc. - is common to both cylinders. You say you've replaced the plugs, HT caps and leads? With known good ones? 'Fraid simply throwing money at the problem - buying new stuff - doesn't in itself guarantee a solution, ask me how I know this. Have you swapped one component at a time to see if the problem moves from one cylinder to the other? Have you used a Volt- or multi-meter to check that the Volts leaving the battery are actually arriving at the e.i. and not being lost at some dodgy connection en route? Do the e.i. and the coils have proper dedicated return cables to battery +ve, not just to the nearest bit of metal?
Turning to the carbs., again have you tried swapping them to see if the problem moves from one side to the other? Or, if swapping's impossible, have you tried another known good (not necesarily new) carb.? Have you actually sized the jets - as advised by John Healy in a number of posts - as opposed to just cleaning them? Along with this, have you checked that the pilot jet cross-drilling is clear?
Have you done a compression check?
Re: T140 STILL.....Won't run right!!!!!
#499529 07/29/1311:58 am07/29/1311:58 am
Hi Stuart, I have checked voltage to the EI and it is ok. plugs brand new, N3 and B8ES (tried both!). Leads are champion carbon fibre moulded at both end ones, but have also tried copper core leads. Also brand new NGK caps.Tri-Spark EI has Y/B wire to live switched feed, B/W wire to one 6V coil (+) link wire to other coil (-) and wire from this coil (+) to earth... have put this wire to battery positive (earth!) and also tried connecting it to chassis (makes no difference)It also has an earth wire in the stator housing straight to the pillar bolt. Everything in the carb's has been re-newed with genuine AMAL parts including jets. I have poked the idle jet through with a 'same size' guitar wire many times, but will do again...Not done compression test, not got the equipment but will do this... Interesting comment about the prob' being on the left cylinder. the left hand plug was always blacker and sootier than the right when she was running and I could never change that whatever I did (change jets, mixture etc...). Left plug is now wet and a little dirty after 10/20 seconds of running and right plug dry and completly clean.. so is left not burning the fuel or is the right not getting any??? Both pipe headers are hot but I think the right side is hotter?? Could it be a valve prob'??? thanks for the reply...
Hi Steve,thanks for the reply.. As you probably know I have never had this bike running right and all the time I had the Boyer fitted the plugs were black, right one slightly, but the left very black (dry and sooty, flat)Now the left is wet and getting black in the wetness...sorry, not the best description!!! but the right is dry and clean. This is after only running for a very short time as it misfires too bad to take for a run!!!
ooops!.. sorry Stuart, EI is wired ok....as you have corrected, got my + and - the wrong way round.
have NGK 5000 OHM resister caps fitted (new)
AMAL... standard .190 main jets. Started with .210 as recommended by Norman Hyde with their half-race camshafts (which are fitted), but came down to .200 and now .190 as I too believed I was running too rich!!! (no difference!!!
Is there no one reading this who lives within easy traveling distance of Jel? Anyone in the Coventry/Leicester/Banbury triangle? This sounds to me to be the sort of problem where two heads together on the spot might well soon sort it out. Sorry, Jel, a bit far away for me now---but I used to live in Grandborough!
Hi Trident man, have got a guy from the Meriden branch of Triumph owners club coming round tonight with his compression tester. That should tell me if I have a prob' in that area. But yeah maybe him being the 'second' head could spot something stupid that I'm just too stoopid to see!!!!! Will post the results when I have them..... Grandborough eh? Just down the road from me...You must be familiar with the Shoulder of Mutton??? Do you miss the 'warm' beer??!!
Yes--very familiar with the "Shoulder of Mutton"-remember used to go to church for a carol service on Christmas Eve and then head to the Shoulder lead by the vicar to drink until after midnight! In those days no problems with closing times--the village cop was in there drinking with the rest of us. Happy days!----and yes--the thing I miss most living in US is the warm bitter beer. So--where do you live? Best of luck with the bike!
Hi, Just done compression test, left cylinder going up to about 150 PSI, Right cylinder only to about 100PSI. Any ideas what that could mean regarding the symtoms with the plugs described in earlier posts?? No offence Tridentman, don't want to be too precise with where I live online as lotta things gone missing due to bad people picking up info that way...(know people who've had experience, so please forgive my paranoia!!) but pretty close to Grandborough...Dunchurch area..... Yeah...the good ol' days..leaving the country pub in the early hours, full of beer,on an icy night with crap tyres trying to remember the way home.....not sure how I survived really....
Anyway... looks like a strip down doesn't it????? but any advice before I start would be appreciated guys...
Did you check your tappet clearances ? During compression test you were supposed to put some oil in your weaker cylinder to find out the culprit of low compression - did you do it ? It would be a good idea to measure your needle jets, very small difference in size could screw your lower revs range quite completely.
Last edited by Adam M.; 07/30/137:48 pm.
Re: T140 STILL.....Won't run right!!!!!
#499810 07/31/131:12 am07/31/131:12 am
Hi Adam, Have checked the tappet clearances several times. clearances (with half-race camshafts fitted!) should be Inlet;.006" Exhaust;.008" and they are spot on... Haven't got anything to check the needle jet size with, but they are new genuine AMAL and replacing the original ones with these made no difference!! No never put oil in cylinder Would like an idea of what the 'culprit' could be and if it give me the problems I am experiencing? Will strip down but want to know what I will be looking for???????? Hoping to get the bike into work next week (if I can get a van!) where hopefully I will be able to have a cylinder leakage test done.... Cheers Jel....