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Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS #471463
01/09/13 4:59 am
01/09/13 4:59 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
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North Coast, BC, Canada
I've owned this bike for close to twenty years, never had it running, never even heard it running!
A neighbour, who's a regular garage sale attendee, drove past the house one day with it in the back of his pick-up. He had no intention of keeping it, only bought it to do a quick flip. I very quickly came to an agreement with him, and wheeled it across the street to join the rest of my herd.
It was rough and dirty, but mostly all there. I started to peel off some of the exterior bits, but as so often happens, something else came up. This time it was in the form of a major house renovation.
The fleet was moved over to a basement in another location for storage, which is where this picture was taken, somewhere between 1995 and 1998.



I had removed the headlight, the front fender, the muffler, and the air filter/intake. I had also found what quite likely could have been the reason this bike had ended up parked in the first place, the foot change return spring was broken in two. Once it had gotten to first or fourth gear, that's where it would have stayed. Easy fix, a friend has got a pile of Norton bits so he came up with a replacement in short order.
As you can see, I also managed to splash a bit of red into the Matchless logo on the timing case cover.

At this point, other things were happening in my life, I went twelve years from 1998 without riding, or working on, any of my bikes.

Finally, in 2010, the place where the bikes were stored was sold. Moving the bikes back to the house where I live, amongst other changes, brought my attention back onto the motorcycles.
There wasn't enough room in the basement for all the bikes. I had gotten married back in 2001 and my wife had at least as much "stuff" as I had, most of the bikes ended up being stored outdoors, under the back deck.

The last bike I had been riding in 1998 was a 1973 TR7RV, it didn't require much at all to get back on the road so it was brought into the basement workshop area. Gradually a few of the other bikes were moved in, a 1968 Royal Star that also didn't require much to get back on the road, and a 1967 Lightning that does need quite a bit of work.
After a fair bit of rearranging, I was finally able to move the rest of the bikes indoors a week or so ago. There's not much room to move, but it's a better situation than having them outdoors. Our weather up here on the North Coast of British Columbia is pretty harsh at the best of times, it's quite hard on the bikes, even if they are under cover.

Since the Matchless has ended up being the easiest to get at, it's finally getting some long overdue attention!

This thread is not going to be the story of an amazing mega hour/dollar restoration back to better than new condition, accomplished at an amazing pace.
My intention is to clean it up and get it running dependably. Along the way I'll post a few pictures, ask a few questions, make a few comments, and hopefully learn quite a bit about Matchless G80CS's.

It's just in the last few days that I've finally figured out that it is a 1964 model, the engine serial number is G80CS/449x, frame is C995x, the tranny is M31773S.
The numbers make it an early 1964 model, still with the plunger type pump. (Whoops, it's actually a 1961 model, see Dons post after my next one.)

The parts that I pulled off years ago are all stashed away in a Rubbermaid bin, they haven't been looked at since, but soon will be.

The fenders are both aluminium. The front fender threw me off as it did not have a front stay, only a rear one. Since the front lip is not rolled, I have to assume that one of the previous owners cut off the front portion. He did a very clean job of it though, the fender looks like it could have been factory.
One thing that is a bit of a disappointment, the carb is a monoblock rather than the GP5. Would this have been something the dealership would have done, perhaps as an option, prior to initial purchase?

Pulled the tranny cover off today, the tranny was basically empty of oil, there was no sign of rust in there though. The clutch cable was not connected, so basically everything was just how I had left off way back when. There was no gasket, just remnants of some type of silicon sealer, so I made one, re-installed the cover and filled with half a litre of 50wt.
Gave the cover a bit of a emery and polish while I had it off, still can't quite believe how many little nicks and dings are in it. Where the little inspection/fill cover sits looks like it's been beat with the backside of a claw hammer, how does stuff like that happen?
The battery box is a fair mess, not much of a shock there, so I pulled it off. There was a heavy coating of what looked like prairie clay/sludge, along with what looked like the remnants of a birds nest, in behind it. For those of you who have already been there, the nut that holds the bottom of the battery box refuses to come loose from the through rod so the nut on the far side ends up coming off. Turns out that nut is not the easiest thing to get back on as it is buried in behind the primary chain case and the rear drive chain, with just a hair of clearance to the rear drive chain at that! The clearance probably is adequate once a human is on top of the bike though.
Ah well, a little perseverance and it was back together.

More pictures next post.



Last edited by Two Alpha; 02/03/13 7:20 pm. Reason: Get the year right, and re-link image

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Matchless
Triumph
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Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #471639
01/10/13 7:47 am
01/10/13 7:47 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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North Coast, BC, Canada
Dug out the Rubbermaid parts bin, there were a couple of items that I had forgotten about. The stator, and also the skid plate. Not sure what I might have been thinking when I removed the stator back in the day.

Here's a shot of the battery box, and the back of the oil tank. "Dirt" bike all right.



I'm missing a battery box cover for sure, perhaps also another cover that goes over both the air filter and the battery box.

More than likely the battery box (after cleaning and painting) and rectifier will be going into the storage bin. A lithium ion battery, and modern charging system electronics, in the space between the fender and the frame, will be the route I'll go.



This lump should be looking a bit better after a serious scrub!






Last edited by Two Alpha; 02/03/13 7:22 pm. Reason: re-link image

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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1964 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #471700
01/10/13 5:23 pm
01/10/13 5:23 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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California
I don't know where you got your year info but mine indicates the frame & engine numbers are for 1961. The battery box fitted is also from 1961-62 but could have been changed. As there were changes each year, it is important to know which parts are correct. Any CS is desirable & valuable. The North American Section of the AMOC manufactures many of the sheet metal parts unique to these, which are available nowhere else. Cheers, Don.

Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Don M.] #471716
01/10/13 6:40 pm
01/10/13 6:40 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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North Coast, BC, Canada
Thanks Don, chalk it up to the usual minefield of misinformation on the internet. There were actually a number of posts which led me to that conclusion. I'll try to track them down as they really should be corrected.

I'm not yet a member of the North American Section of the AMOC but will soon get that fixed.

If I can get a proper cover for the battery box, that would be the preferred location for a modern battery and charging system electronics.


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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #471761
01/10/13 11:45 pm
01/10/13 11:45 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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California
On my 1961 G80CS I'me using one of the reproduction battery boxes which look exactly like the original, sealed AGM battery inside. I attached a modern powerbox to an aluminum plate that mounts to the two threaded bosses on the down tube under the seat. With the powerbox on the back side of the plate it is unobtrusive & the plate gets cooling air. I also converted to 12v to avoid the alternator switching used with 6v. Cheers, Don.

Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Don M.] #471803
01/11/13 6:26 am
01/11/13 6:26 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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Converting to 12V makes a lot of sense to me.

As far as what made me think this bike was an early 1964 model, these internet posts played a fair part in it.

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bboard/showthread.php?17812-G-80-CS-what-yearis-it

See post #7.

"As to the G80CS they were made from 1956 up to 1965. However, the practice of putting a two number code for the model year was stopped after 1963. the year of manufacture is then determined by the numbers after the "G80CS". By September, 1964 (end of 1964 and start of 1965 production) the engine number had reached G80CS 4958. By August, 1965 (end of 1965 production) the number was G80CS 5179. Thereafter, the model number was G85CS and by July, 1966 (the end of Matchless single manufacture) the number G85CS 296 had been reached.

Look at the two posts by torker at the following link, and consider that my engine number is just shy of G80CS/4500 (it's G80CS/449#, not 61G80CS/449#).

http://www.ajs-matchless.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2825#p98271

I guess the question is which parts of these posts are correct, and which parts aren't?





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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #471853
01/11/13 6:19 pm
01/11/13 6:19 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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California
Well, a quick look at the quotes indicates to me that the writer is not that familiar with the brand. The CS was introduced in 1951, not 1956 but was long stroke through 1955. The later ones were the short stroke varient. I have seen cases stamped 1963 but the engine in my 1961 CS is not date coded but the serial number indicates it is from 1963. I have never seen a plunger engine 1964 or a gear pump 1963, but of course have not seen everything in this world. Model year production started in the previous fall, leading to much confusion on effective date.

For reference I use the Menber list for NA, where the serial numbers of engine, frame & gearbox can be compared to what people report. There are errors in that list due to owner confusion but enough entries to sort them out. I also refer to Bacon's: "AJS & Matchless Restoration" where he lists the first serial numbers for the production years. You may get an accurate answer from the AMOC Dating Officer by paying a small fee, but some records are not in existance.

I have been riding AMC since 1956, when I bought my first one from Bud Ekins, a 1956 G80CS. I've had several since then & have four now, as well as BSA & Royal Enfield singles. I am the Technical Specialist for the North American Section but am sometimes stumped for an answer.

If I can be of further help, send a PM & I will reply with my direct contact info. For machine or sheet metal work contact "Iron John" Epp in BC: toold2care@yahoo.ca Cheers, Don.

Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Don M.] #471860
01/11/13 7:00 pm
01/11/13 7:00 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Don M.
On my 1961 G80CS I'me using one of the reproduction battery boxes which look exactly like the original, sealed AGM battery inside. I attached a modern powerbox to an aluminum plate that mounts to the two threaded bosses on the down tube under the seat. With the powerbox on the back side of the plate it is unobtrusive & the plate gets cooling air. I also converted to 12v to avoid the alternator switching used with 6v. Cheers, Don.

I like what you've done there Don, that's probably the route I will go as well.

There's been an order to Walridge sitting on my computer for a month or two, mostly bits and pieces for the TR7RV and A50R.
I finally placed it yesterday after adding the various rubber bits (foot pegs, kicker, shifter) for the G80CS. Also inquired about the battery box cover.
We'll see what my battery box looks like after I have a go at it this weekend.

It looks like this bike may have been set up, from the dealer, more as an enduro than outright competition bike. It's got the lighting kit, battery, non folding road bike style foot pegs, low exhaust, and silencer. The previous owner sure wasn't shy of the mud though, I'll be scrubbing and cleaning for a while yet!
Membership Application for the North American Owners Club goes in the mail this morning.


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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Don M.] #472093
01/13/13 8:28 am
01/13/13 8:28 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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North Coast, BC, Canada
Don, your willingness to share the solid knowledge of these bikes that you've gained over the years is greatly appreciated. And thank you very much for pointing out the reference materials you use.
Once John Diederich receives and processes my membership application for the NAOC, I'll see about getting a certificate for my bike from the AMOC Dating Officer. It sounds like an updated Member list for NA won't be available until 2014, which is not all that far off now.

I've just realized that the drive side footrest on my bike is a folder!
It would seem that someone replaced a folding footrest on the timing side with a fixed one in order to facilitate the low exhaust pipe. The dealer where the bike was originally purchased perhaps?
Is two different footrests on one machine common for the CS models that were fitted with low exhaust?

Last edited by Two Alpha; 01/13/13 11:55 pm. Reason: rephrase question for clarity

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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #472162
01/13/13 4:12 pm
01/13/13 4:12 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 586
California
Don M. Offline
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It was about 1963 that the AMA required folding footrests for bikes in their sanctioned races. Owners or shops cut off the fixed peg portion & welded on folding ones. A year or two later the factory fitted the folding ones by doing the same mod, so they are hard to distinguish. They would have had both, or none originally but not folding until about 1963. The 1964-up T/S pegs may not be machined to clear a pipe as a low pipe was not fitted to the scramblers then. Cheers, Don.

Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Don M.] #473443
01/21/13 7:24 am
01/21/13 7:24 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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North Coast, BC, Canada
The folding footrest on the primary side seems unable to be removed unless the complete primary, including inner cover, is as well. Is that the normal situation on these bikes? Not exactly helpful as motivation to upgrade the footrest on that side.

I've managed to clean a lot of the crud off the bike over the last few days, not finished yet though. There's some surface rust on the frame that's been uncovered, it will need to be attended to.

There have been a few discoveries that create a little concern. Many of the nuts and bolts wear the scars of improper tools/tool usage. A number of the nuts and bolts have been replaced with something other than the proper item, and it's no surprise really that a few of the washers are missing.
On the plus side, pretty much all of the parts, with the exception of some of the fasteners/spacers, are where they should be. The wiring is actually in pretty good shape, just a couple of dangling wires to nowhere.

Pulled the magneto off for a look, it's in good shape and lit up the old KLG plug nicely when spun with a drill on the bench. Hopefully the original ignition set-up will work out, normally I switch all my old brits to electronic ignition but in this case having the magneto working properly has to be the preferred route.
The magneto's back on and timing set by the book, very straightforward. Finding a cigarette paper was a bit of a challenge though.


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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #479175
03/01/13 4:33 pm
03/01/13 4:33 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 143
I'm out in the garage, USA
TOK Offline
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I'm out in the garage, USA
Please keep the picts and info coming. I'm working on a 61 as well.

I'm happy to share what I have too.

Tim

Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: TOK] #479241
03/01/13 9:19 pm
03/01/13 9:19 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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Originally Posted By: TOK
Please keep the picts and info coming. I'm working on a 61 as well.

I'm happy to share what I have too.

Tim


Will do, I've had a couple of things diverting my attention lately but hope to get a little time with the Matchless this weekend.


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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #486202
04/17/13 5:51 pm
04/17/13 5:51 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
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A small amount of progress to report.
The chainguard has been cleaned up and spray bombed. The front fastener was a bit of a problem on the way out, end result being a brand new replacement bolt. The old bolt looked like it's last few threads had seen occasional contact with the chain, enough that it had folded over the nut.



In this photo you can see the lock tab on the bottom, and the square hole for the square nut on the top. Just a matter of prying the lock tab tip up against the flat of the bolt head once everything is tightened down.



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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #487663
04/27/13 6:21 pm
04/27/13 6:21 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 619
North Coast, BC, Canada
Two Alpha Offline OP

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Two Alpha  Offline OP

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North Coast, BC, Canada
The rear lamp setup on this bike is quite different from those I've seen in other g80cs pictures, anyone recognize it?



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Matchless
Triumph
Re: Two Alpha's 1961 G80CS [Re: Two Alpha] #491463
05/23/13 3:55 pm
05/23/13 3:55 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,661
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Elburn, Ill. USA
Rear lamp is obviously an aftermarket item, not a factory one.
The course-thread, too-long farm tractor bolts holding the lamp
together are a nice touch !


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