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Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: Tridentman] #488080
04/30/13 5:25 pm
04/30/13 5:25 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,242
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,242
Scotland
Hi Richard,

Originally Posted by Tridentman
somethings (like fine wine and us) improve with age but I dont think it applies to switches made by Joe Lucas!

whistle Ekshully ... the o.p. switches were made by Smiths, the Co-op switched (sorry) to Veglia along with the clocks when Smiths stopped manufacturing ('78? '79?).

Originally Posted by Tridentman
So a change to a new switch is I think sensible before we jump out of our prams about low oil pressure. Having said that--there could well be a problem with low oil pressure!

At the risk of repeating a tale you might remember anyway, I had very similar on the T160 I bought second-hand, then five years old with about 13k on the clock. I had the 'oil light flickering at idle when hot'; "it's the switch", said the 'experts'; so I changed the switch and, sure enough, the oil light stopped flickering at idle. A few months later, at about 5,000 rpm on the M11 one sunny Saturday afternoon, something felt odd, I shut the throttle and coasted to the hard shoulder. By the time we pulled up, the engine had stopped. So I restarted it, but it needed about 3,000 rpm for the o.p. light to go out; "time to use the breakdown recovery", I thought.

Long story short: fine grey powder in the oil on the sump plate; when the engine was stripped, all valves and guides bu66ered, all big-end and plain main bearings bu66ered (ball and roller bearings changed too), timing-side rod big-end (the one with the least lubrication) eye oval - would've gone very soon after if I hadn't shut the throttle when I did. frown Even now, the rebuild cost would make you wince; nearly thirty years ago, it was a small fortune. sick cry

Originally Posted by Tridentman
did the T140 as standard ever use a hydraulic rear brake switch?

I dunno how much more help you're intending to give Cory but bear in mind the possible delaminating hose problem if the rear brake hose is original? Then, if Cory intends to replace the hose, he can dump the standard Heath Robinson arrangement for a single length of braided, when it's relatively easy to incorporate an hydraulic switch. :bigt

Hth.

Regards,

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Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #488134
04/30/13 11:40 pm
04/30/13 11:40 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Thanks for the info ref rear brake light switches, Les--appreciated---again!
Stuart---yes the oil light coming on at idle even when the engine is quite cold is worrying.
I have recommended to Cory that he:
a) Change the oil pressure switch.
b) Dismantle and thoroughly clean the OPRV.
c) Change the oil as this is an unknown at the moment.
If the red light at idle still persists after the above then some examination of the engine is indicated--starting at the timing cover oil seal and then getting progressively deeper into the engine.
My personal gut feel is worn big end bearings and a largely blocked sludge tube ---but these are just gut feelings at the moment.
Thanks again for all your help, particularly Les and Stuart.

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #488143
05/01/13 12:15 am
05/01/13 12:15 am
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 434
australia
T
tiger_cub Offline
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tiger_cub  Offline
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T

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 434
australia
If the timing cover is off check the tightness of the oil pump nuts. I once had a 650 unit where a PO replaced the studs/ nuts with allen screws without locking of any sort, and they worked loose.


1970 TR6C
1970 TR6R
Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #488218
05/01/13 12:17 pm
05/01/13 12:17 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Thanks for the tip, Cub--much appreciated.

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489062
05/07/13 1:18 am
05/07/13 1:18 am
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ
C
corymarc Offline
BritBike Forum member
corymarc  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ
A little update and a few questions.

I replaced the oil pressure relief valve. It had a lot of wear on the piston and didn't seem to move back and forth freely.

I also replaced both oil seals under the timing cover. One of them was worse than the other. But I don't think that was the cause of my low pressure.

I ordered a new oil pressure switch. But it was on back order

And lastly I checked my oil pump as per the manual. First I cleaned it then tested it and it failed. I put some oil into the piston and plunged them down. Oil didn't come out of the bottom hole of the larger cylinder. And then when it finally did I covered the top holes with my thumb and drew the piston back the oil is supposed to stay in the bottom hole. Which it doesn't.

I'm I correct that I need a new oil pump?


Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489091
05/07/13 5:44 am
05/07/13 5:44 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,604
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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triton thrasher  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,604
scotland
Just fix the pump you have.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: corymarc] #489120
05/07/13 10:24 am
05/07/13 10:24 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
Originally Posted by corymarc

And lastly I checked my oil pump as per the manual. First I cleaned it then tested it and it failed. I put some oil into the piston and plunged them down. Oil didn't come out of the bottom hole of the larger cylinder. And then when it finally did I covered the top holes with my thumb and drew the piston back the oil is supposed to stay in the bottom hole. Which it doesn't.

I'm I correct that I need a new oil pump?

It sounds like you've just got some small particle stuck in the check ball of return pump.That can happen anytime the crankcase drain plug is removed.When things are working,never remove the drain plug.
Undo the square head steel plug on the return pump,and clean it out.
It might not be necessary,but it never hurts to fit a new ball.If you buy extra balls,you can re-seat the brass ball-seat.
When the ball seat is clean,punch a new clean ball bearing onto the seat.Then fit it back together using a different new clean ball bearing (not the one you just punched on).

The plungers and their bores don't wear much.the problem is usually rubbish on the seat and ball.


Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489135
05/07/13 12:59 pm
05/07/13 12:59 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,511
New Jersey USA
Look carefully at the pistons and, holding the body up to the light, look carefully at the pump bores.
The pump runs under ideal conditions (oil all over the place) so the pistons and bores are probably OK---the only way they get damaged is if some really abrasive dirt gets into them.
Then as Pete says--it is a question of cleaning the ball valves thoroughly. While dismantled look under a magnifying glass at the ball seatings--they very often get specks of dirt imbedded in them. Even if they look good then seat the balls as Pete advises. You need a good seal between the ball and the seat and even when new minute differences in dimensions due to tolerancing means that you need to make the seat really fit the ball by firmly tapping the ball onto the seat.
If you are unsure let me know and I will come over and have a look.
HTH

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489138
05/07/13 1:09 pm
05/07/13 1:09 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline
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T140V-Rich  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Two things, one of which Pete covered far better than I could concerning the pump. I sometimes wonder if he wasn't an engineer at Meridan.

The other being the comment, "I also replaced both oil seals under the timing cover. One of them was worse than the other. But I don't think that was the cause of my low pressure."

It could be. I installed brand new seals behind my T140 cover last fall. One blew out after 100 miles or so. Pressure dropped dramatically. The one in particular is the crank seal behind the timing cover. Make certain that one is secure, in place, and not knackered in any way. Remember, mine was brand new and blew out.

HTH

Richard


1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489145
05/07/13 1:52 pm
05/07/13 1:52 pm
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ
C
corymarc Offline
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corymarc  Offline
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C

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ
Ok. I will get some balls! I will post a picture of my pump. To see if you guys think the piston is to worn.

Also do both the oil seals face the same way? If not, how should they be?

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489153
05/07/13 2:22 pm
05/07/13 2:22 pm
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ
C
corymarc Offline
BritBike Forum member
corymarc  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 27
NJ

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489229
05/07/13 11:12 pm
05/07/13 11:12 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline
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T140V-Rich  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
I won't venture to say on the pump.

But as to the seals, yes, both face the same way with the spring side facing the engine. I just did that job last fall.

DISREGARD. See brighter lad's comments below

HTH

Richard

Last edited by T140V-Rich; 05/08/13 1:21 am.

1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: T140V-Rich] #489233
05/07/13 11:41 pm
05/07/13 11:41 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,801
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,801
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by T140V-Rich
But as to the seals, yes, both face the same way with the spring side facing the engine.


No!!!!! The crankshaft seal must be fitted with the garter side away from the engine as the oil flows from the timing cover gallery into the crankshaft.

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: T140V-Rich] #489234
05/07/13 11:42 pm
05/07/13 11:42 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance
P

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
The spring side of the crank oil seal faces into the timing cover,away from the crankshaft.The flat side of that seal faces toward the centre of the engine.

The flat side of the cam seal goes to the outside,away from the centre of the engine.

Re: Tr7rv wiring [Re: cus] #489250
05/08/13 1:04 am
05/08/13 1:04 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
T140V-Rich Offline
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T140V-Rich  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,000
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Oh my word! My sincerest apologies. I stated exactly the reverse of the procedure. No intentional misbehaving on my part. I've done the seals multiple times and stated the opposite. My deepest apologies!!!

Thanks, lads, for catching my error! I'm obviously in no great state to offer insight after dealing with accused murderers all day or 14-year-olds who assault their teachers. Too many distractions.

Richard

Last edited by T140V-Rich; 05/08/13 11:12 am.

1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
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