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#487665 - 04/27/13 7:01 pm T140 valve guides?  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Jel Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jel  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Rugby,United Kingdom
Hi..
would like a little advice on what to about my valve guides please.
T140V (1979) rebuilt a couple of years back, but have never got running just right. Takes a few kicks to get her started (especially when hot) and she will not tick over until at running temp (with or without choke)But when running she goes ok.Think she is a bit rich as the plugs are slightly black, more so on the left side. Now...I have got a guy who is going to take a look at her but can't do it until the start of June. This guy during conversation mentioned the valve guides which has got me thinking.... I never replaced the guides at the rebuild as I was told it would be more trouble than its worth and I reckoned they were ok anyway (not that I'm an expert!!!)
Now the thing is I'm wondering if I should have them replaced in the meantime anyway???
Bike has only done 21,000miles (but I believe they were not kind miles, poor servicing etc....)left side pipe smokes but not excessively. Tappet noise is quite excessive and there is a kind of 'clangy' rattle at between 2 to 3000 revs acelerating and throttling off, which I cannot ascertain from where, could just be something loose, but could it be the valves/guides???
any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated...
One thing I would like to know I guess is how long do the guides last generally anyhow????
Thanks.....
Jel

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#487735 - 04/28/13 9:34 am Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: Jel]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 355
GTSRider Offline
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GTSRider  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 355
Tampa, Florida
I also have 2 T140's...my main rider is a 81T14OES with
27,000 miles on her.
I recently did my top, and measured everything 3 times.
To my surprise guides were in factory spec, so I put in new
valve seals and left it. Bike runs strong with an occasional puff out the tail pipe.
If it were my bike I think I would enjoy the riding this season, and tear her down next winter.
Don't worry so much...just enjoy the ride !
Sounds like you need an enricher seal kit foe your cabs ...
common for the MK II 's


PM
#487754 - 04/28/13 2:10 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: Jel]  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,997
T140V-Rich Offline
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T140V-Rich  Offline

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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,997
Sunny South Carolina, (US)
Just thinking out loud here. The excessive tappet noise you're suspecting as worn valve guides? I would think should that be the case, she'd be smoking a bit.

Two simple things to check before getting into some serious fettling. The primary chain tension as well as the tappet clearances.

I had a particular rattle once. Checked all the mechanical movements, etc before realizing my drive chain was in need of a bit of attention. Tightened it up, noise gone. Point being, consider everything.

Cheers

Richard

Last edited by T140V-Rich; 04/29/13 11:35 am.

1977 T-140V
1973 T-140V
2011 Bonneville SE
Author of "Relics and Reminiscing."
#487794 - 04/28/13 7:06 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: GTSRider]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Jel Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jel  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Rugby,United Kingdom
thanks for the replies, yeah think I will take your advice and just ride her for now, just wish I could get her starting more reliably!!! got a guy looking at her in a few weeks so I will just see what he comes up with!!!!
Rich, good point about the chain, will check it out and I had the same thoughts about the guides if they were that bad I guess there would be a lot more evidence...smoke etc....
thanks again....

#487797 - 04/28/13 7:15 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: Jel]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,965
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,965
Boston, Massachusetts
In a conversation with Brian Jones I once asked him what he thought of the valve guide specifications listed in the Workshop manual. He said, for years he never looked at one, but when he did he was aghast at what they had listed. He admitted that at those figures the guides were worn out.

Beside the ones already mentioned, a Triumph engine has many sources for noise. With no quieting ramps the valve train is always suspect. This is made worse because Triumph long ago stopped selectively fitting cam gears to remove back lash. It should be nil for cam gear to pinion and .001-.002in. for middle pinion to crankshaft pinion. While is was a normal part of production on non-unit engines, most unit T120 and T140s come no where near this standard.

Piston slap is always possible when T140 piston clearance exceeds .006in. This noise is present when the engine is cold and lessens, or goes away, as the engine reaches operating temperature.

Drive or timing side bearing failure can be the source of all sorts of noises.

WIth a little practice, using a stethoscope or long screw driver to your ear, one can go around the different areas of the crankcase and listen. Often this will give up the offending part or system that is making the noise.

For example piston slap is easily distinguished by holding the tip of the screw driver to the side of the cylinder between the fins. Failing bearings can be detected by listening the areas adjacent to the bearings, etc.. Takes a bit of practice to distinguish the uneven whirring sound of a failing bearing from the clacking sound of the cam gear teeth slapping back and forth as they are pushed one way, then the other by the valve springs.
John


#487818 - 04/28/13 9:26 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: Jel]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,879
triton thrasher Online content
BritBike Forum member
triton thrasher  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,879
scotland
Another point from the first post: a cold engine should not tick over well.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#488273 - 05/01/13 7:01 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: John Healy]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Jel Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jel  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 191
Rugby,United Kingdom
hmmmm!..lot to think about there John.Will have a 'listen' with a screwdriver as described, should'nt be a bearing prob, they were all re-newed at rebuild and only done 1000 miles since.Pretty much everything re-placed in fact (except valves/guides!!)Just a thought about the primary chain, manual gives freeplay spec, but how do you get it right by peering/feeling through the inspection hole??
thanks again for the replies....

#488280 - 05/01/13 7:23 pm Re: T140 valve guides? [Re: Jel]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,965
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content



Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,965
Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: referring to the bearings
Will have a 'listen' with a screwdriver as described, should'nt be a bearing prob, they were all re-newed at rebuild and only done 1000 miles since.


There is a classic problem that we experience here in the North East (USA). It is a premature timing side ball bearing failure. It typically happens between 750 and 1,000 miles. It starts with the engine being stored in a place where there are constant changes in temperature that cause condensation. This could be in a heated garage where the garage door is opened a lot. The bike sitting adjacent to a South facing window. Or a classic, the bike sitting next to a furnace (central heater-UK). Anywhere that the temperature changes a lot and the air is damp. If you wear eye glasses you know the problem.

This bearing is typically quite dry of oil and condensation sits in the bottom of the bearing and eventually breaks through the oil layer leaving microscopic rust spots. These degrade rather rapidly, depending upon how badly the bearing rusted. So while it probably isn't your problem it warrants taking a good listen.
John



Moderated by  John Healy 


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