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#487325 - 04/25/13 12:40 am Gold Star starting procedure?  
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Swan Online content
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Winona, MN
Help, my leg is getting tired trying to start this beast. I am having difficulty getting my bike started and need real world advice. I have spark, compression, correct timing and fuel air delivery. Timing, points gap, valve geometry etc has been carefully checked 6 times.

Here is what I am doing:
closing air slide
retarding ignition halfway back
tickle carb
kickstart to find TDC
pull in compression release
slightly opening throttle
kicking down hard as possible while releasing compression lever

It almost starts, but will not catch or run.

Here is what I have:
New AMAL 389 Monobloc on earlier CB head
#3 slide, valve #3, pilot 25, needle jet 106, middle position and 330 main jet
93 octane gas (fresh)
Champion N3C plug (new) properly gapped. It is clean, not oil or gas fouled.
pilot screw 1 1/2 turns out

I was difficult to start last weekend but I was able to run it for a mile. This is a catch 22, I need to start it to adjust the carburation but I cannot get it started.

Advice, hints, tips, tests etc? Thanks!

Last edited by Swan; 04/25/13 12:45 am.

1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
BSA Gold Star eBay items

BSA Gold Star forum This board is dedicated to BSA Gold Star motorcycles.

#487328 - 04/25/13 1:23 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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rick e. Online content
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Earth
After you ran it for a mile the bike did a small heat up and cool down cycle. Did you recheck valve clearance ? Snug up the head? Anyway, stuff moves a bit after that

Use the compression release just to get you over TDC. Release lever. Set up your kicker. Then swing.


"Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

#487331 - 04/25/13 2:06 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: rick e.]  
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Rickman Offline
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Ohio
Also,
Do not wak the throttle wide open.

I've found that if you BARELY open the throttle, the air going past the ... idle? circuit, is forced to speed past this, and draw the fuel up and out.

Wak-ing the slide wide open, doesn't allow the air any speed, at this low RPM, to readily draw fuel up and out into the airstream...

#487332 - 04/25/13 2:23 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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dave - NV Online content
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Elko, Nevada USA
uuhh Jon.. Your starting method sure sounds difficult.
Here's the drill. Bring the piston up on compression, pull the release and ease the engine just past compression. Now with the kicker back up and just a smidge of throttle kick it over and bombomBarroom. What you're doing is allowing the inetia in spinning crank to start the engine.
Generally any kickback problems when starting indicates the throttle is too far open.

After you get it running adjust your carb idle speed for about 1k revs. From then on Don't open/touch the throttle when starting. You better have a Big Leg to start a Goldie with the throttle open!

You'll prolly find there's no need to use the enrichener if you tickle the float first.

If things don't work out, pull in the compression release and with the throttle open kick the engine over a time or two to clear any excess fuel and start over. With your monoblock adjusted properly starting should be a breeze, unlike with a GP mounted.
Comprende?

Let us know how it goes.

Last edited by dave - NV; 04/25/13 2:27 am.

dave - NV
#487337 - 04/25/13 3:03 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Swan Online content
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Winona, MN
Thanks guys, tomorrow is another day. I had to walk away and work on another bike while I mulled this over and waited for your advice. I shall try again tomorrow night with fresh eyes, mind and leg and let you know how it goes. Thanks again.


1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
#487339 - 04/25/13 3:11 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: dave - NV]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: dave - NV
pull the release and ease the engine just past compression.
Just in case it isn't clear, this sentence ends with an implied "and then let the release back out again."

Another starting procedure to try until you run out of friends is to have two of the strongest of them push you with the bike in gear while you're holding in the compression release. When they've achieved max. velocity let go of the compression release lever. Warn them ahead of time that you want them to keep pushing as long as possible even after you've let go of the release.

Another one that can help if you have weaker friends (but you'll still need two of them) is to follow Dave's procedure to get the engine just past TDC, then pull in the clutch, and have them push you up to max. velocity while you're standing on the pegs. At that point simultaneously plop down as far back as you can on the seat to put weight on the wheel and dump the clutch. Again, warn them to keep pushing.

Both of the above can result in abrupt stops, so Ms. Manners would tell you to yell a warning just before you dump the release/clutch.

And, if you run out of friends before the bike starts:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCYCLE-START...=item232a307391

p.s. no one needs bikes with electric starters and fuel injection, but times like these remind you why those features can be so very nice to have.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 04/25/13 3:17 am. Reason: added p.s.
#487341 - 04/25/13 3:32 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Comox BC Canada
Swan: All good advice above, especially the easing it past TDC, releasing the decomp lever and bringing the kicklever all the way up before giving it a full and mighty kick.

One of the issues will be the size of the engine sprocket as it affects how many degrees you spin the crankshaft with a kick and how fast it is spinning when it coming up on the compression stroke.

If you are going to bump start it I think the best technique is to put it into maybe 2nd gear and back it up on compression before pulling in the clutch. However once you get up to speed you will need to be dropping your full weight onto the seat to coincide with dropping the clutch to prevent the rear tire from sliding. A GS is not an easy machine to bump start without help.

Good luck

Gordo



Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#487347 - 04/25/13 6:15 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Oslo Norway
And by the way, dont be afraid of the ignition timing, you might need more advance. As said earlier most kickbacks are coming from opening the trottle to much. And by the way flood it properly, the petrol shall pour out of the carb, yes I know will make mess of your nice bike, but its important to get a rich enough mixure for starting.


best regards

Per
Goldi Clubmans
Goldi Scrambler
Rob North R3
OIF A65
#487350 - 04/25/13 7:47 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Kerry W Offline
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Middle East,
I'd try flooding the carb and not using the choke (air slide).

Do try releasing the compression release and giving what compression is trapped a full kick is usually successful.

Bump starting is more technique than effort - flood the carb, engage 1st gear (on an RRT/RRT2 box - near to 2nd gear's ratio on a standard box - usually recommended to prevent breaking the primary chain), pull the bike back onto compression (this gives the crank a chance to roll around a couple of times and build momemntum before it meets compression), release the clutch, ignore the compression release, push as fast as possible for 4 paces (should be enough) and apply weight to the bike (either by jumping onto the seat, side saddle - for which you get one starting chance, or lean your chest on the tank - usually only possible with clip-on 'bars - and keep pushing - a bike that fires and runs reluctantly might give you a couple more chances at compression) while dumping the clutch. Use no throttle and JUST crack the throttle open as the motor rolls over.

Used to work every time for me in race push starts, sadly a thing of the past these days.

Last edited by Kerry W; 04/25/13 7:49 am.

No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#487351 - 04/25/13 7:49 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Kerry W Offline
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Middle East,
I'd try flooding the carb and not using the choke (air slide).

Do try releasing the compression release and giving what compression is trapped a full kick is usually successful.

Bump starting is more technique than effort - flood the carb, engage 1st gear (on an RRT/RRT2 box - near to 2nd gear's ratio on a standard box), pull the bike back onto compression (this gives the crank a chance to roll around a couple of times and build momemntum before it meets compression), release the clutch, ignore the compression release, push as fast as possible for 4 paces (should be enough) and apply weight to the bike (either by jumping onto the seat, side saddle - for which you get one starting chance, or lean your chest on the tank - usually only possible with clip-on 'bars - and keep pushing - a bike that fires and runs reluctantly might give you a couple more chances at compression) while dumping the clutch. Use no throttle and JUST crack the throttle open as the motor rolls over.

Used to work every time for me in race push starts, sadly a thing of the past these days.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#487404 - 04/25/13 4:26 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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dave - NV Online content
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Elko, Nevada USA
Push starts .. I've had lots of them from 'willing friends' aarrgh.

A story for you: "My oldest son Joel's first motorcycle race experience".
My pretty bride with a largish 'baby bump' was with me in the pits at the Boise TT helping me with this n that. Somehow I badly flooded the Goldie and it refused to fire. We pushed onto the track and with her maternity dress flying she push started me. The crowd gave her applause. We still laugh about it...

Last edited by dave - NV; 04/25/13 4:28 pm.

dave - NV
#487410 - 04/25/13 4:48 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: dave - NV]  
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Crossthread Offline
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New York
I have the same carb/head combination. My routine:
Turn on the gas. Don't tickle, but give carb 30 sec to fill.
A tad of retard.
One rotation through with decompression lever.
Release decompression lever, bring to TDC, engage lever, ease past TDC.
Kick it through and through. Gotta turn those flywheels over and get some momentum going.

I couldn't start mine either at first. I know how you feel. Then I stumbled on this pattern and all is well. Maybe they are all a little different.


tp
#487416 - 04/25/13 5:37 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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kommando Online content
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Scotland
'smidge of throttle'

This smidge of throttle can be hard to find plus as you kick with your hand on the throttle it can open the throttle a smidge more wink , so if you get an extended throttle stop screw you can turn it in a half to one turn and leave the throttle shut for a exact defined smidge with gloved hands.

I see you have a Monobloc, just use the std throttle stop screw as its extended already .

Last edited by kommando; 04/25/13 5:40 pm.
#487429 - 04/25/13 6:33 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: kommando]  
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Elijah Offline
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South Africa.
You have all got it wrong !!
Don't kick past TDC ..... With the exhaust valve lifted , press gently on the kickstart so the piston rises up the bore about half way.
Relese the valve lifter ... you now have about 4 or 5 : 1 compression ratio ... Allow the kickstart to get back to the top & now give a good kick ... 5 : 1 comp. ratio the motor will fire !!!

Elijah.

#487489 - 04/26/13 3:55 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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dave - NV Online content
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Elko, Nevada USA
Luckily we're not talking about atarting a Velo. A whole different deal. Lucky us!

This afternoon .. Gas on, enrichner on, switch off. Kick through.
Switch on, kick once, bombomBaroom. Idle at 1k revs. Back it out, up for low and away down the road. I like that.

The GP carbs are on the shelf. AMAL 'smoothie', SRM Boyer twin plug sparklers. Age has it's privleges eh? The clips are replaced with 'swan neck' bars from Unity. A Gentlemans fast cruiser?. But then I'm not riding a wussy twin, maybe when I get older. heh.

Are we having fun? I hope so.

Last edited by dave - NV; 04/26/13 4:04 am.

dave - NV
#487550 - 04/26/13 6:07 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Kerry W Offline
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Middle East,
Yep, they're all different all right - after nearly 500 miles, my 500 with 1 1/2" GP2 and round separate float chamber, seems to have settled down and likes 5 seconds of flooding..any more and it's 'too flooded'...


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#487551 - 04/26/13 6:25 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Boomer Online content
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Orygone
As Dave likes to say "back in the day", there was a few times of rebuilding an engine the night before a race, up til two or three in the morning, getting to the race track at 7AM having never started a new engine. Flood the crap out of the carb, put it in second, or maybe even third, (I used scrambles ratio for roadracing), back it up to compression then pull in the clutch and push like hell. After about 5 or 6 running paces, dropping the clutch and hopping on the seat at the same time and a wail would usually be heard from the mega. Hopefully get in as many practice laps as possible to break in the rings. I do, and don't miss those days.

Bill


Boomer
#487572 - 04/26/13 10:53 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Swan Online content
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Winona, MN
Thanks all for chiming in. I am still sorting out the idiosyncrasies of the starting ritual, but she is starting much easier. Slight tickle, no choke, hit TDC then go just past it with compression release lever, let the lever go, no throttle, kick hard and then VAROOOOMMM...

The weather went from a threat of snow (again) to 73 degrees, sunny and beautiful today. I did another 7 mile shakedown miles and all is good. She will start in one kick once warm (with an audience). Still need to polish primary cover, sort out a drip from the gearbox and primary cover. But wow, she runs, idles and rides beautifully and sounds great. Tomorrow is going to be nicer and I plan to wrench and ride most of the day.


1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
#487595 - 04/27/13 3:34 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Kerry W Offline
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Middle East,
Excellent.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#487599 - 04/27/13 4:11 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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GS 4112 Online content
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Buy an electric starter and you will never regret it.

#487601 - 04/27/13 4:31 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: GS 4112]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: GS 4112
Buy an electric starter and you will never regret it.
Yes he would -- because we'd never let him live it down. Once started down that path how long would it be before he would be dreaming of a Gold Wing with heated hand grips?

Some of you might have used a Friden calculator in the old days before electronic ones were invented. They were the size of a manual typewriter and did all of their calculations via swirling gears and clacking levers. A division problem might take 5 sec. of mechanical cacophony before it finally presented you with the result, but when the number finally appeared you knew it was something to be believed. Getting a Gold Star started after going through the ritual is much the same -- when it starts, you know you're on a motorcycle. Yes, modern devices have their uses (e.g. calculating a logarithm...), but putting an electric starter on a Gold Star would be like putting an LED display on a Friden. You could do it, but why??

#487602 - 04/27/13 6:06 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Swan Online content
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Winona, MN
Electric start on a BSA Gold Star? Sacrilege!

I was waiting at a red light on my Triton last spring and a guy in a truck pulled up next to me and asked "what is it like to ride a bike without a windshield ?" Without missing a beat I replied "what is a windshield ?" The light turned green and I was gone...


1966 Triton
1962 BSA DBD34 Gold Star
1966 Triumph Bonneville
#487614 - 04/27/13 10:15 am Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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Kerry W Offline
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Middle East,
Unfortuntely, the Phill P/John E 'electric leg' option is a very good one for those 'more mature' GS owners who are put off riding their bikes due to the fear of not being able to get the machine to turn hydocarbons into heat and noise on demand...many Uk rioders with the 'conversion' report riding 10 times as much and getting back to enjoying their machines, which can't be a bad thing..I've tried the electric start out on the original bike, and it works VERY well...

Personally though, I'll stick with the kick start while I can still convince myself I'm tough enough..


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
#487647 - 04/27/13 3:56 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: Swan]  
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GS 4112 Online content
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Have you ever noticed how long term GS owners like myself who require a knee replacement, it's always the right knee ?

#487661 - 04/27/13 6:08 pm Re: Gold Star starting procedure? [Re: GS 4112]  
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Magnetoman Online content
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Originally Posted By: GS 4112
Have you ever noticed how long term GS owners like myself who require a knee replacement, it's always the right knee ?
I'm sure it's purely coincidental...

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