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#476525 - 02/11/13 5:44 pm Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ...  
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http://www.eBay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Daytona-T100d-1975-VERY-RARE-/140913066894?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33%26meid%3D5522564350226580602%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D1031%26rk%3D4%26#ht_234wt_1172


Seems to have deteriorated since it's appearance in Classic Bike some years ago


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
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#476555 - 02/11/13 8:48 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140913066894?r...6894%26_rdc%3D1

T100D JJ 58006

Originally Posted By: meriden4ever
Seems to have deteriorated since it's appearance in Classic Bike some years ago



Are you sure it's the same "Last" T100D you read about in CB mag.?

The "Last T100D" featured in the April 2001 edition of CB mag. was JJ 58013.

#476584 - 02/12/13 1:45 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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...which makes me think this ain't it ...


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
#476744 - 02/13/13 1:20 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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There appears to be a hole in my knowledge here, I always thought the last 500s were made at the Small Heath facility after the tooling for them was 'snuck out' of Meriden during the 'sit-in'.

So that's not what happened?

#476748 - 02/13/13 1:42 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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Quote:
So that's not what happened?


That was the Triple that had new tooling so Small Heath had somewhere to fit the triple engines they still made. The 500 tooling was in Meriden and the Co=op must have taken ownership when formed but decided not to use it.

#476752 - 02/13/13 2:10 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Englishman]  
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Originally Posted By: Englishman
There appears to be a hole in my knowledge here, I always thought the last 500s were made at the Small Heath facility after the tooling for them was 'snuck out' of Meriden during the 'sit-in'.

So that's not what happened?


If the T100Ds were the last of the 500 models, and the Meriden stock list of "19th December 1973" previously posted by John Healy is accurate, then the "25 T100D" models were locked-in at Meriden at that time (along with 284 T100Rs and 177 TR5Ts) so must have been manufactured at Meriden.

#476753 - 02/13/13 2:41 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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Also, most of the bits and bobs used to assemble 500 frames and other parts of the motorcycle, including a complete run of TR5 parts scheduled for production, were housed across the street in a second factory. While the TR5 bits got sold up years ago, all of the un-welded frame bits were sold as scrap metal. I made a bunch of lamps from 650 steering head castings.

The second property (Factory 2), with tons of 500, and other parts, was sold by Dennis Poore to the Danish Triumph importer, Busder Reinhardt, just as the workers took over the main factory. This became PS Motors. When "Buster" died David Holder bought PS Motors, and the property. David is the son of the late Matt Holder (Aero Jig and Tool) who now Trade as The Vincent Company and The Velocette Company.

There was a lot of trading of parts, and contract production of 500 and 650 bits by the workers co-operative between PS and the co-operative. Jack Shortland (the S in PS) was supplying badly needed 500 and 650 spares to the US dealer market. Not known to Dennis Poore, Jack Shortland (PS Motors) was dealing with, the then director of the co-operative, John Nelson.


#476769 - 02/13/13 4:58 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: L.A.B.]  
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: kommando
That was the Triple that had new tooling
The 500 tooling was in Meriden and the Co=op must have taken ownership when formed but decided not to use it.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Some of the tooling used to build complete T150's at Small Heath from March 1974 was new. However, some - along with parts for models other than 750 oif twins - came from Meriden when the blockade was lifted briefly in February 1974 aiui. One of these latter tools was the hearth used to make tube-'n'-lug frames, which the triples and the T100R retained but the Co-op obviously didn't require for the oif.

The problem with the 500 was it 'fell between two stools' - the Co-op didn't want it because it required some different tooling from the big twins, NVT didn't want it because they were focussing on the triple and the Commando; neither could build it cheaply enough to compete on either quality or price with contemporary Japanese bikes. frown

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
If the T100Ds were the last of the 500 models, and the Meriden stock list of "19th December 1973" previously posted by John Healy is accurate, then the "25 T100D" models were locked-in at Meriden at that time (along with 284 T100Rs and 177 TR5Ts) so must have been manufactured at Meriden.

Where's "the Meriden stock list of "19th December 1973" previously posted by John Healy"?

Many years ago, John Nelson told me that it was normal practice for the the production line workers, just before they 'broke up' for their summer holiday/works shutdown, to build up around ten of each of the 'next' season's models and leave them on the production line. Not all bikes were fully-built, so staff like production planners, working through the shutdown, could check details. If his figure is correct, that would account for ten of the "25"; perhaps there were parts for another 15, that the Co-op workers assembled before the "stock list" was compiled?

When the T100D's were removed from Meriden (in February 1974?) because the Co-op didn't want them, because NVT didn't want them either, they went to Andover Norton for any necessary completion before sale to selected dealers.

Hth.

Regards,

#476780 - 02/13/13 6:40 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Where's "the Meriden stock list of "19th December 1973" previously posted by John Healy"?



http://www.coventrysparesltd.com/motorcyclesstock1973.jpg

Originally Posted By: Stuart
Many years ago, John Nelson told me that it was normal practice for the the production line workers, just before they 'broke up' for their summer holiday/works shutdown, to build up around ten of each of the 'next' season's models and leave them on the production line.


The T100Ds locked-in at Meriden were: "....a partially completed pre-production batch of 18.....machines awaiting completion on the day of closure." (CB April 2001).
It would appear that another seven had been either assembled or partialy assembled by 19 Dec. '73.
The lock-in did not begin until 14th September 1973, by which time as we know, the factory had built a significant number (3,000?) of 1974 season bikes, 1974 production starting from GJ 55101 (J R Nelson) so the '74 season must have commenced at some point around June '73.

JJ58013 (the highest serial T100D) was supposedly "assembled on 6 September 1973". Date of dispatch: "11 July 1975" (info. CB article - dates supplied by the TOMCC).

Last edited by L.A.B.; 02/13/13 8:00 pm.
#484368 - 04/04/13 4:23 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: L.A.B.]  
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It was along time ago, but I seem to recall that HGB Motorcycles had at least one T100D in their, short lived, Pinner showroom in the mid 70s (I know I saw one somewhere). I thought they were very cool at the time and still do now. Maybe HGB were one of the "select" dealers?

Last edited by TR5T_Mark; 04/04/13 4:25 am.

Mark
#484389 - 04/04/13 12:55 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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Back on the mainland!


Re-listed

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#484490 - 04/05/13 2:58 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: JubeePrince]  
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Curious. Is there any doubt about the authenticity of the bike listed on eBay? Does anyone know its history beyond what the seller says in the listing? I guess we will find out the market value of a T100D when the auction ends. From what I recall there were two or three very nice original low mileage unrestored 1970s Daytonas sold on eBay in the US last year at between US$5,000 and $6,000 (a good number did not sell). This T100D has already been bid up to the equivalent of US$5,200 and there is still three days to go until the auction ends.


Mark
#484646 - 04/06/13 7:46 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: TR5T_Mark]  
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
The T100Ds locked-in at Meriden were: "....a partially completed pre-production batch of 18.....machines awaiting completion on the day of closure." (CB April 2001).
It would appear that another seven had been either assembled or partialy assembled by 19 Dec. '73.
The lock-in did not begin until 14th September 1973, by which time as we know, the factory had built a significant number (3,000?) of 1974 season bikes, 1974 production starting from GJ 55101 (J R Nelson) so the '74 season must have commenced at some point around June '73.

If the same '74 season start date was used for the T100's as for the T150's, it was 1st July 1973.

Also, the drum-brake T100's were designated 'Series 1' while the T100D was designated 'Series 2'.

Without knowing the dates of the 1973 'summer shutdown', it's speculation but doesn't seem impossible that the "significant number" of drum-brake (Series 1) T100R's were built between June or July '73 and the 'summer shutdown', the T100D pre-production batch (10 or 18) were part-built and the workers went on holiday, to return to the kerfuffle that eventually led to the sit-in

Originally Posted By: TR5T_Mark
It was along time ago, but I seem to recall that HGB Motorcycles had at least one T100D in their, short lived, Pinner showroom in the mid 70s (I know I saw one somewhere). I thought they were very cool at the time and still do now. Maybe HGB were one of the "select" dealers?

You sure it was HGB? I've never known them to be any sort of Triumph dealer, "select" or otherwise (they were a Honda 5-Star Dealer in 1979). Otoh, Abbey Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in the area (not sure where as they'd closed by the time I moved to the area) and Roebuck Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in Rayners Lane.

Regards,

#484649 - 04/06/13 9:20 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Without knowing the dates of the 1973 'summer shutdown',


Presumably, the summer shutdown would usually have occured sometime within the school summer holiday period, so between mid-July and the end of August?

Apparently, the Coventry area shut-down usually ocurred mid-July, however I don't know if Meriden did likewise?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/yo...92746-26796676/
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Summer+exo...es.-a0263633189

"Until the 1980s, the majority of people all went away at the same time as the city's engineering industry shut down in mid July for the annual 'Holiday Fortnight'."

Originally Posted By: Stuart
it's speculation but doesn't seem impossible that the "significant number" of drum-brake (Series 1) T100R's were built between June or July '73 and the 'summer shutdown',


It does seem to indicate that '74 season model (500, 650 & 750) production probably started before the summer shutdown if '74 season 750 twin production started during June (G), at GJ 55101(Bonnie-Nelson) and '74 500 production commenced from HJ 56408 (TR5T, 5th July, Trophy Bible- Woolridge) and going by the serial numbers, Meriden must have assembled and dispatched many '74 season (500/650/750) models before the sit-in started.


Originally Posted By: Stuart
the T100D pre-production batch (10 or 18) were part-built and the workers went on holiday, to return to the kerfuffle that eventually led to the sit-in


I don't really follow that? As the 18 T100Ds were supposedly "built" on or around the 6th of September and still "awaiting completion" at the time the sit-in started (according to the TOMCC info supplied in the CB article) so it seems unlikely they were part-built before the summer shutdown.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 04/06/13 10:21 am.
#484656 - 04/06/13 11:05 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: L.A.B.]  
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Hi Les,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Originally Posted By: Stuart
Without knowing the dates of the 1973 'summer shutdown',

Presumably, the summer shutdown would usually have occured sometime within the school summer holiday period,

I appreciate that, but if it was, say, the last two weeks of July, that would've given plenty of time to complete the T100D's before the sit-in; otoh, if it was the last two weeks of August, that gives less time available to complete the T100D's?

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Originally Posted By: Stuart
the T100D pre-production batch (10 or 18) were part-built and the workers went on holiday, to return to the kerfuffle that eventually led to the sit-in

I don't really follow that? As the 18 T100Ds were supposedly "built" on or around the 6th of September and still "awaiting completion" at the time the sit-in started (according to the TOMCC info supplied in the CB article) so it seems unlikely they were part-built before the summer shutdown.

Define "built" - the engine was assembled, the engine passed final test, the engine went into a frame, etc., etc. smile Given that the "part-built" information came from John Nelson himself, who was there at the time, who confesses a particular interest in the T100D and owned the first one until relatively recently, as opposed to an uncredited source in a motorcycle magazine (which has never had an unblemished reputation for historical accuracy) twenty-six/-seven years after the event, who might or might not have just looked at a column on a page in a book, ... you'll forgive me if I go with John's version? wink

Hth.

Regards,

#484665 - 04/06/13 12:00 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
otoh, if it was the last two weeks of August, that gives less time available to complete the T100D's?


Yes, "If"?


Originally Posted By: Stuart
Define "built" - the engine was assembled, the engine passed final test, the engine went into a frame, etc., etc. smile Given that the "part-built" information came from John Nelson himself, who was there at the time, who confesses a particular interest in the T100D and owned the first one until relatively recently, as opposed to an uncredited source in a motorcycle magazine (which has never had an unblemished reputation for historical accuracy) twenty-six/-seven years after the event, who might or might not have just looked at a column on a page in a book, ... you'll forgive me if I go with John's version?


The information in the CB article did not come from "an uncredited source" but was supplied by the Machine Registrar (named in the article) of the TOMCC who no doubt had access to the factory records which perhaps could be considered more reliable than J Nelson's memory?

#484677 - 04/06/13 1:35 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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At the time I lived in Rugby (12 miles from Coventry) and worked in Coventry.
The Rugby Holiday Shutdown was the last week in July and first week in August.
The Coventry Holiday Shutdown was the first two weeks in August.
The reports from the Coventry Evening Telegraph etc certainly bring back memories.
Dozens of coaches and tens of special trains were laid on to transport the workers to their holidays.
It was a different society then. You had guys who lived next door to each other and worked alongside each other in the same factory going on holiday with their families on the same bus and staying in the same Bed & Breakfast on holiday.
Made for a close knot society.
But doesnt help with T100D dating---sorry to digress guys!
HTH

#484680 - 04/06/13 2:14 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: L.A.B.]  
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Hi Les,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Yes, "If"?

Originally Posted By: Stuart
it's speculation but doesn't seem impossible

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
The information in the CB article
was supplied by the Machine Registrar (named in the article) of the TOMCC who no doubt had access to the factory records which perhaps could be considered more reliable than J Nelson's memory?

Why? John Nelson worked at Meriden for years. John isn't the only person who worked at Meriden who's told me about new seasons' models part-built to various stages for production staff that worked through the 'summer shutdown', so aiui it was was normal regular practice.

Otoh, you've seen "the factory records". They're columns and lines in a book. In the column/line in question, there's space for a date, nothing else.

Most of the time, when production of, say, twins was in full swing, possibly a bike went from component parts to complete in one day. But what about an assembly of components that was started, say, ten minutes before the shift ended? You imagine the production line worked 'til the last bike started was finished, so the 'Date Built' would be "reliable" for a bunch of old farts to argue about nearly forty years later? Or, if you accept that part-built bikes were left at the end of a shift, to be finished the next day, or the following Monday, or the following Tuesday after a bank holiday ... is it possible the date entered in the appropriate column/line simply represents something agreed at the time between the production manager and accountant, assuming it was even that important?

With respect, the records that "the Machine Registrar of the TOMCC" has access to are those that've survived. With any kind of production experience from even just the era, you'll know that Meriden staff must've compiled far more production analyses; afaik, these haven't survived. Without these, which might even show how long an individual bike took to build, extrapolating one hand-written date into That Was The Date It Was Built doesn't stand up to close examination. You know it doesn't for the triples; if you've more than just skimmed the information in John's and Harry Woolridge's books, you know the 500's weren't produced continuously like the 650/750 twins, so it can't for the 500's either.

Regards,

#484681 - 04/06/13 2:30 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Tridentman]  
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Hi Richard,

Originally Posted By: Tridentman
The Coventry Holiday Shutdown was the first two weeks in August.

Both of Les's links say it was the last two weeks in July ... whistle grin

Drifting even further away from the thread's original subject, if the "Holiday Shutdown" was always the same two weeks, how come it's used as the explanation for the 'season change', from one to the next, when the (surviving) factory records show seasons with two Julys (start and end), two Augusts, etc.? Intriguing ...

Regards,

#484687 - 04/06/13 3:30 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
The information in the CB article
was supplied by the Machine Registrar (named in the article) of the TOMCC who no doubt had access to the factory records which perhaps could be considered more reliable than J Nelson's memory?


Why? John Nelson worked at Meriden for years. John isn't the only person who worked at Meriden who's told me about new seasons' models part-built to various stages for production staff that worked through the 'summer shutdown', so aiui it was was normal regular practice.


Whichever way you attempt to spin it to fit a theory, the fact is the T100Ds were still at the factory at the start of the sit-in, in mid-September and were still there on the 19th December.

#484711 - 04/06/13 6:09 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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Stuart---the shutdown period in Coventry changed from the immediate post war years to the period we are talking about in the late 1960s/early 1970s.
The actual dates were set year by year by the Coventry district EEF (Engineering Employers Federation).The dates didnt normally change from year to year except that they did sometime in the late 1950s/early 1960s to the dates I quoted in my earlier posting.
HTH

#484713 - 04/06/13 6:13 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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Additionally---my memory comes back in fits and starts----the holiday shutdown periods were attempted to be coordinated with the school holidays.
At the time we are talking about the school summer holidays (6 week holiday) was the last week in July, August and the first week of September.
The EEF and the school authorities liased to prevent the situation where the shutdown started before the school holidays started. If this happened the schools would be open but there would be no kids in the classes!

#484725 - 04/06/13 7:31 pm Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart

You sure it was HGB? I've never known them to be any sort of Triumph dealer, "select" or otherwise (they were a Honda 5-Star Dealer in 1979). Otoh, Abbey Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in the area (not sure where as they'd closed by the time I moved to the area) and Roebuck Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in Rayners Lane.



My T100D (JJ 58012) has Roebuck Motorcycles on the bottom of the number plate and it is clearly possible that they were the original supplier.
I used to use them quite a lot for Triumph spares back in the 80s. Chris Buckle was a good bloke who was pretty devastated when he didn't get the franchise for Hinckley Triumphs.
Chris

#484754 - 04/07/13 1:14 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: meriden4ever]  
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The bikes in the centre are T100Ds minus their tanks sitting in Meriden during the lock-in. Does ths photo help any discussion ?


1983 TR65T Tiger Trail
1983 TSSAV
1983 TSX
1983 TR65 Thunderbird
1982 TR7T Tiger Trail
#484773 - 04/07/13 4:27 am Re: Unusual Meriden lock-in bike for sale ... [Re: Stuart]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
TR5T_Mark Offline
BritBike Forum member
TR5T_Mark  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
Georgia
Originally Posted By: Stuart


Originally Posted By: TR5T_Mark
It was along time ago, but I seem to recall that HGB Motorcycles had at least one T100D in their, short lived, Pinner showroom in the mid 70s (I know I saw one somewhere). I thought they were very cool at the time and still do now. Maybe HGB were one of the "select" dealers?

You sure it was HGB? I've never known them to be any sort of Triumph dealer, "select" or otherwise (they were a Honda 5-Star Dealer in 1979). Otoh, Abbey Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in the area (not sure where as they'd closed by the time I moved to the area) and Roebuck Motorcycles were a Triumph dealer in Rayners Lane.


Pretty sure it was HGB and Pinner, but I would not put any money on it. I lived in the Harrow/Pinner/Rayners Lane area at the time and had friends that worked at HGB in the late 1970's. I was one of only two or three of our motorcycle "crew" who had any interest in British bikes (my regular big bike ride at the time was a 1971 A65FB that I used for commuting to central London during my college years). The Pinner showrooms were there one day and gone the next. I think it may have been a stepping stone between when the Harrow location closed/was closing to when they finally found their feet in the Ruislip area.

Wherever, I recall being very taken by the T100D/Series 2 for its looks compared to the established Series 1. The style of the OIF Triumph/BSA of the period have always appealed to me (I have owned a number over the years). I could never understand why the T100R did not get the same "modern" features as other bikes in the ranges for the 1971 model year. Nor could I understand why the "normal" T100R, let alone the T100D, they were so expensive compared to their 650/750 brethren.

Last edited by TR5T_Mark; 04/08/13 12:44 am. Reason: minor typos corrected

Mark
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