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#685375 - 02/18/17 11:46 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) ***** [Re: SidSnot]  
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Gary E Offline
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Gary E  Offline
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Medford, Oregon
Originally Posted By SidSnot
Thanks Gary.
Next question.
What is the difference between the US (68-6536) and the UK (68-6535) variants of the 6 tab front guard and the one specified for a 66 Hornet 68-6544?

The UK 68-6535 has mounting holes on top along the centerline of the fender for the UK style long curved vertical license plate "crotch slicer").

The 68-6544 is fitted to '66/'67 west coast model Hornets. It has the 6 tabs that are splayed out at more of an angle (about 45 degrees) for tire clearance. The west coast front tire is the large Dunlop Gold Seal K70 4.00 x 19, so it needs more clearance than the standard 68-6536 east coast model Hornet fender that has the 6 tabs in a more vertical position for the mounting of a 3.50 x 19 K70 tire. The 68-6536 is also what is utilized on all of the other same year A50/A65 models.

The west coast model also uses a wider rim, the WM3, for the large 4.00 tire, as opposed to the standard WM2 rim on the east coast model for the 3.50 tire.

Images and narrative of the front fender differences as well as tire sizes (3.25, 3.50, 4.00) are contained in the original 64 page thread with the thread link provided by John in the very first post of this current thread.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
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#687104 - 03/07/17 7:13 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Gary E]  
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SidSnot Offline
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Auckland, New Zealand
Thanks Gary.
The more I dig into these front guards the more confused I seem to be. Both the 66 and 67 parts manuals show the front guard stays going over the top of the guard and I am guessing these are the UK version?
Virtually all images of 66 and 67 (even west coast) show a standard stay that bolts straight to the guards front tab.
When setting up my 66 front guard it seems to sit way too high with about an inch of daylight (probably over 2 inches of actual gap) between the guard and the 3.60 tire. On a recent trip to my local bike breaker he gave me 3 says of differing length.
The stays I have are 12 inches between the bolt hole centers. Strangely these are the same on my 67 West Coast but according to your old post on page 6 (Restored) Gary the WC are longer.
What are the length please of the East Coast ones and does anyone have a 66 parts book image of the standard setup with numbers? I also had about 5 front guards there and there seems to be a great variance in guard radius and tab positions.
Sid

#687130 - 03/07/17 2:45 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Gary E Offline
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Gary E  Offline
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Medford, Oregon
The manual drawings depict the front stay that applies to the Spitfire, regardles of whether it is export or UK. There is no manual drawings of the straight style front stay. For the east coast model Hornet (as well as all of the other model machines, except the Spitfire) the front stay length, as well as the rear stay, the length is 12 inches (center of hole to center of hole). The stay is straight. The west coast model Hornet stays (all 4 of them) are 12.5 inches hole-to-hole and have one end that is slightly bent. Same with the center bracket and tab; the west coast brackte is bent on one end for the 4.00 tire clearance and the fender tab is bent outward.

East coast stays = 12 inch length, straight end, 3.50 tire, all fender tabs are straight (fender is the same as all other model machines) (stays are the same as all other model machines except Spitfire)

West coast stays = 12.5 inch length, bent end, 4.00 tire, all fender tabs are bent out (stay usually has an "H" stamped on one end)


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#689276 - 03/25/17 3:38 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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SidSnot Offline
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Auckland, New Zealand
Can anyone point me in the direction of service notes that cover trouble shooting ET ignition. I used to have them but do you think I can find them?
Sid

#689278 - 03/25/17 4:30 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Gary E Offline
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Medford, Oregon
Cannot help you right now as I'm at the annual big BSAOCNC Clubman's Show in San Jose this weekend.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#689372 - 03/25/17 11:32 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Gary E]  
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SidSnot Offline
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Auckland, New Zealand

#690083 - 04/01/17 2:58 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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NE Ohio
I have a line on a '64 Hornet that is pretty much complete but no title. Is it worth the risk? I'm in Ohio

Thanks,
Tom


Newbie to BSAs - Rebuilding '67 West Coast Hornet
1972 Norton Combat Commando 750
1973 Norton Commando 750
1974 HD Sportster
1982 Honda CB750K
2006 BMW R1200RT
#690088 - 04/01/17 3:43 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: tomkatohio]  
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Gary E Offline
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Medford, Oregon
Originally Posted by tomkatohio
I have a line on a '64 Hornet that is pretty much complete but no title. Is it worth the risk? I'm in Ohio

Thanks,
Tom


It would be a Spitfire Hornet. That is what they were in '64/'65.

Hard to say without seeing some images of it and knowing the cost. Worth the risk? At $1,000, most definitely. At $15,000, probably not. Titles can be gotten. Definitely need a legit (signed by the seller) bill of sale though. Maybe even have the bill of sale notorized. Original '64 pipes and rear fenders are hard to source, especially the pipes. I wouldn't do it without them as I would be restoring it back to original.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#690137 - 04/01/17 7:24 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Gary E]  
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tomkatohio Offline
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NE Ohio
Thanks Gary,
Once I saw it, I walked away. Couldn't see any engine numbers at all. Seller was asking $1,500 and it was in pretty bad shape by my estimation.

Need to put the $ in to my Hornet!


Newbie to BSAs - Rebuilding '67 West Coast Hornet
1972 Norton Combat Commando 750
1973 Norton Commando 750
1974 HD Sportster
1982 Honda CB750K
2006 BMW R1200RT
#690185 - 04/02/17 3:17 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: tomkatohio]  
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tomkatohio Offline
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NE Ohio
I posted some pics on the main forum


Newbie to BSAs - Rebuilding '67 West Coast Hornet
1972 Norton Combat Commando 750
1973 Norton Commando 750
1974 HD Sportster
1982 Honda CB750K
2006 BMW R1200RT
#694505 - 05/09/17 2:11 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Roadwarrior Offline
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El Dorado, California
Having a Bit_ch of a time timing the ETS on my 67 Hornet. I followed all the instructions on aligning the rotor with the peg plate, setting the points, but I can't get any spark at all. Even went through Magneto Man's excellent thread on it. And I just think I figured out why. It has a Triumph ETS rotor, not a BSA ETS rotor. It has the Triumph 3 holes S, M, R, and three extra that someone put in.
Does anyone have an extra ETS rotor I can buy for the BSA Twin? Or, will the Triumph rotor work? The "S" hole on the rotor is 37 Degrees BTDC, which is the same as the "R" hole on a BSA rotor.

Last edited by Roadwarrior; 05/09/17 2:12 am.

Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



#694547 - 05/09/17 2:24 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Gary E Offline
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Medford, Oregon
I had several ET rotors, all with recharged magnets, but sold them off last year.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#694555 - 05/09/17 3:44 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Gary E]  
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Roadwarrior Offline
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El Dorado, California
Thanks Gary, I am sure someone will have one.


Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



#694576 - 05/09/17 8:17 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Boomer Online content
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Orygone
Bob, are you sure it's the rotor? I would think even at 37 degrees you should be getting a spark, but I'm just learning about these A65's and my '65 Spitfire Hornet had been converted to DC coils so I'll be watching this thread more.


Bill B...

Last edited by Boomer; 05/09/17 8:18 pm.

Boomer
#694649 - 05/10/17 5:48 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
So this means the timing holes are in slightly different position? I didn't know there was a difference until roadwarrior brought the subject up. I pulled out some of the rotors, both 2 hole and 3 hole versions. Measuring as closely as I could between the relevant holes and the key slot in the hub, I couldn't find a difference. Also could not visually find a difference in the relation of magnetized segments and the drilled holes. Would these differences be so slight? Couldn't the timing be adjusted to compensate at the points plate?

Does Magnetoman address any of this in that great long ET thread? I'm not strong enough to reread it all just now. Anybody that knows something, please jump in.

#694707 - 05/10/17 6:41 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Roadwarrior Offline
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El Dorado, California
He talks about it. The Hornet is timed at 37 degrees. I had the pin in the "R" hole in the back of the stator per the workshop manual. The "R" hole in the Triumph stator is at 41 degrees. I think I can use the Triumph stator if I use the 37 degree hole marked S. I would rather use the correct one for the hornet. I tested my stator as best as I could, and it seems ok. Maybe it's got a problem. The points have to open at exactly the point where the stator is producing maximum voltage in order to generate the spark. At 4 degrees difference (41-37) I think the points won't be open when the voltage is at max. That's what I understood from Magneto Man's thread.

Last edited by Roadwarrior; 05/10/17 6:47 pm.

Bob


73 Triumph T140 Main Ride
70 Bonnie
67 BSA West Coast Hornet

56 Chevy

Who are the brain police?



#694750 - 05/10/17 11:33 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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terry jasper Offline
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phoenix, AZ
Looking for a cyclone. Hello everyone. i am located in Arizona. I have been hunting around for a Cyclone competition. If any of you run across one that you intend to pass on, I would appreciate a heads up. There is one on ebay in the parts section right now. Pretty major project, not to mention it is in delaware and I am in Phoenix. I am tempted to make a reasonable offer on it. I would love to hear what some of the more educated folk have to say on it.


1975 MK3 commando
1971 T100c
1970 B44VS
#695130 - 05/13/17 10:18 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: terry jasper]  
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ljm Offline
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Jerseyville, Illinois
Roadwarrior

John Healy gave me these values on a BSA rotor with the 3 holes S=37 degrees BTDC
M=39 degrees BTDC
R=41 degrees BTDC
I used the S hole for the ET. Don't know if the triumph is different.

#695133 - 05/13/17 10:29 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Gary E Offline
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Medford, Oregon
Good info Leo. The shop manual indicates to use the "S" hole.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#695137 - 05/13/17 11:50 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Leo: Don't have my parts here to look at. So you have a 3 hole version on one of your Hornets? And it starts okay?

#695140 - 05/14/17 12:26 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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Gary E Offline
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Gary E  Offline
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Medford, Oregon
All of the ET rotors I've dealt with have the three holes.


I do not hide behind Emoticons
1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1970 BSA Victor Special
#695206 - 05/14/17 7:38 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
All the old ones I've had, from dragging home different junk, I mean projects, had the 2 holes in the rotor. Then I started gathering a few with the 3 holes after I found how well my 67 starts and runs with the refurbished ET. Been meaning to convert a couple other bikes back to ET.

My 67 , nothing has ever really been apart so I don't know about the rotor. Roadwarrior got me started worrying I'd collected the 3 hole ones pointlessly. All but one of the old 2 holes one I got have loose centers.

#695229 - 05/14/17 11:23 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: leon bee]  
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ljm Offline
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ljm  Offline
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Jerseyville, Illinois
Leon and Gary
All mine have 3 holes. When I was a kid I thought I thought the R on the rotor was for "race". Until it wouldn't start.

#695245 - 05/15/17 1:56 am Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Leo: what have you got these days? I have my 66 that I've had for 40 some years. And my bone stock almost original West Coast 67. I sold a really pretty 66 Hornet replica to an old friend, now I have another replica 66 kinda mocked up.

#695382 - 05/15/17 11:55 pm Re: Hornet, Wasp, Spitfire Hornet, Cyclone (Restored) [Re: Two Alpha]  
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ljm Offline
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ljm  Offline
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Jerseyville, Illinois
Leon

Right now I'm working on the 67 west coast hornet. Been waiting on the rims for polishing and rechrome. Finally got them back and are waiting to get them laced up. Bottom half of the engine is done and all parts are powder coated. Cylinders are bored and the head has new guides, new valves and new springs. This one has been a slow process but its starting to move. Getting the 65 and 66 hornet ready for the Springfield mile the end of this month. They have a vintage bike section and it keeps getting bigger each year. Will be posting pictures of the west coast hornet rebuild as soon as I get something to show.

ljm

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