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Question about Dunlop #463841
11/18/12 3:59 pm
11/18/12 3:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Could anyone help me out as to which sizes of Dunlop K81 and K70 that will fit between the forklegs of a late 60:s Bonneville? And give room for a fender fitting as well.
Would hate to by online to find out that it is too wide http://www.dexon.se/landsvag/veteran-c-156-1.aspx But on the other hand I want as fat tyres as possible.

I have a Metzeler Block C for a front tyre at the moment which is strangely wide in places not needed. It actually carves on to the fork gaiters when "suspending".

I know this is a lovely topic of endless debate but any suggestions on good and goodlooking retrotyres for 19xVM2 and 18xVM3 would be much appreciated.

regards,

simon

Last edited by Simonofsweden; 11/18/12 4:00 pm.

I make misstakes on a daily basis!
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Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #463860
11/18/12 5:48 pm
11/18/12 5:48 pm
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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For Dunlop K70's, the most common set-up for the north America market on big twin Triumphs was and still is:

Front- 3.25x19
Rear - 4.00x18

You could fit a 3.50x19 up front as well but I have gathered from the endless debates that 3.25 is best for handling concerning street riding. If you're just motoring about and not laying into the curves I don't see why 3.50 won't work for you since you did say you want the fattest tire possible up front.


As for K81:

Front - 4.10x19
Rear - 4.10x18


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Jon W. Whitley] #463863
11/18/12 6:00 pm
11/18/12 6:00 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Thanx!

I bit surprised about the recommendations for K81 though. Would have expected something along the lines of
Front - 3.50x19
Rear - 4.25x18 (or 4.10 as you indeed recommend)

How ever, thank you very much!
My new rear hub will be arriving shortly and a rim is on the way. So I will spend the winter making a new rear wheel. And perhaps replace front spokes with stainless while I am at it. To make them match the new rear wheel I mean.

/s


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #463872
11/18/12 7:10 pm
11/18/12 7:10 pm
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Posts: 10,177
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
Could anyone help me out as to which sizes of Dunlop K81 and K70 that will fit between the forklegs of a late 60:s Bonneville? And give room for a fender fitting as well.

Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
As for K81:
Front - 4.10x19

Dubious, ime.

Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
Rear - 4.10x18

Mmmm ...

A 4.10 will fit between '69 or '70 fork legs - i.e. after Meriden increased the centre-to-centre distance to 6-3/4" - but it's a faff to get the wheel in and out, you either have to deflate the tyre or remove the fender and brackets. frown

At the rear, 4.10 is both narrower overall and has a smaller overall diameter than 4.00.

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
on the other hand I want as fat tyres as possible.

Be careful what you wish for ... whistle While it's only one factor, in the late 1960's, when Triumph, BSA, Dunlop, Avon and probably other tyre companies still did a lot of testing, only the front tyre width on the triples was increased - from 3.25 to 4.10 - not the twins; the triples are approximately 70 lb. (35 kg.) heavier than the twins. When the twins were fitted with K81's, the front was 3.60x19 (90/90x19 closest equivalent) although the overall diameter is smaller than 3.25x19.

At the rear, the 4.25/85x18 is a tiny bit wider overall than 4.00x18 but, again, the overall diameter is smaller; it might not be a problem on a twin but, on a triple, you do notice the loss of cornering clearance. frown

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
surprised about the recommendations for K81
Would have expected something along the lines of
Front - 3.50x19
Rear - 4.25x18 (or 4.10 as you indeed recommend)

No such tyre as a 3.50x19 K81 - 4.10x19 is pretty much the same overall diameter but wider overall.

4.25(/85)x18 is both wider overall and a larger overall diameter than 4.10x18.

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
any suggestions on good and goodlooking retrotyres for 19xVM2 and 18xVM3

Avon Roadriders - 3.25x19 and 4.00x18 are available.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Stuart] #463879
11/18/12 8:07 pm
11/18/12 8:07 pm
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Do doubt since he wants a fatter tire out back. I considered posting the 4.25/85x18 but took a look at the specs for a 1979 T140 and since it listed it as 4.10x18 decided to leave it at that, not being overly familiar with the K81 rear of any size.

After reading this, I realized that I just posted the sizes that the late T140's came with according to the book when fitted with K81's but gave it no thought to him fitting them to a late '60's twin.

I personally favor the K70's and usually go with the 4.00x18 rear and 3.25x19 front. Same with the Avon SM Mk.II series. Although I have been thinking of a 3.50x19 front for one of the bikes.

So, I think if he goes with that combo using K70's he'll be good to go.



Originally Posted By: Stuart

Dubious, ime.

Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
Rear - 4.10x18

Mmmm ...

A 4.10 will fit between '69 or '70 fork legs - i.e. after Meriden increased the centre-to-centre distance to 6-3/4" - but it's a faff to get the wheel in and out, you either have to deflate the tyre or remove the fender and brackets. frown

At the rear, 4.10 is both narrower overall and has a smaller overall diameter than 4.00.



At the rear, the 4.25/85x18 is a tiny bit wider overall than 4.00x18 but, again, the overall diameter is smaller


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Stuart] #463883
11/18/12 8:21 pm
11/18/12 8:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Stuart

No such tyre as a 3.50x19 K81 - 4.10x19 is pretty much the same overall diameter but wider overall.

4.25(/85)x18 is both wider overall and a larger overall diameter than 4.10x18.


Sorry, I ment 3.60x19 K81

Stuart, Do I understand you correctly that the K81 3.60x19 is equal to the 3.25x19 only with a smaller diameter?

Tricky numbers to get a grip of this I tell you! When higher number not automatically equals larger...

To bee honest I was mostly thinking of looks when I said that I wanted fat tyres. I think that might be a slightly different approach to setting up the bike then some of the people on the board. BUT on the other hand I do enjoy riding and I do ride rather aggressively so I might go for the roadworthy compromise after all...

I do like the look of the K81 the best I must say.

Thanks for all the great advice so far!

/simon


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #463911
11/18/12 11:36 pm
11/18/12 11:36 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,806
Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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Why the Hell would you want to put a K-70 on the front, other than for a 1968-on restoration?

K-70 tires ("Tyres," for you Brits) were designed for the REAR of bikes. The wear pattern of "cupping" which the K-70 displays
after a thousand miles of operation should be a clue that something is wrong, and they ALL do it. They were designed
to be "pulled" on the rear end, not "pushed" on the front.

My '72 Daytona never handled better than when I replaced the K-70 with a Dunlop "rib" front tire.

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Irish Swede] #463988
11/19/12 12:26 pm
11/19/12 12:26 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Irish Swede
Why the Hell would you want to put a K-70 on the front, other than for a 1968-on restoration?

K-70 tires ("Tyres," for you Brits) were designed for the REAR of bikes. The wear pattern of "cupping" which the K-70 displays
after a thousand miles of operation should be a clue that something is wrong, and they ALL do it. They were designed
to be "pulled" on the rear end, not "pushed" on the front.

My '72 Daytona never handled better than when I replaced the K-70 with a Dunlop "rib" front tire.


Dunlop specifies them as suitable for rear AND front use http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tire-catalog/road/vintage/k70/

I do however thank you for valuable info on poor handling whatever dunlop specifies.

regards,

simon


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464004
11/19/12 2:30 pm
11/19/12 2:30 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 836
derby england
wak Offline
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wak  Offline
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derby england
All my bsa and triumph wear k70 fronts 3.50 x 19,look great and handle.



BSA lightning
BSA B50MX
TRIUMPH TR6C
BSA BUSHMAN
BSA Gold Star Daytona
BSA Gold Star Scrambler
BSA Rocket Gold Star
BSA C15S
BSA Cyclone
Triumph T120
Triumph T100 Daytona
Triumph 5TA Trials
Triumph T100 Scrambles
Cheney 560 TT
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: wak] #464005
11/19/12 2:47 pm
11/19/12 2:47 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: wak
All my bsa and triumph wear k70 fronts 3.50 x 19,look great and handle.


Yep! That does look pretty good to me. What do you use for the rear?

/s


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464007
11/19/12 2:50 pm
11/19/12 2:50 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 836
derby england
wak Offline
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wak  Offline
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derby england
4.00 x 18 K70 Rear


BSA lightning
BSA B50MX
TRIUMPH TR6C
BSA BUSHMAN
BSA Gold Star Daytona
BSA Gold Star Scrambler
BSA Rocket Gold Star
BSA C15S
BSA Cyclone
Triumph T120
Triumph T100 Daytona
Triumph 5TA Trials
Triumph T100 Scrambles
Cheney 560 TT
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464009
11/19/12 2:56 pm
11/19/12 2:56 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 836
derby england
wak Offline
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wak  Offline
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derby england
more K70 madness



BSA lightning
BSA B50MX
TRIUMPH TR6C
BSA BUSHMAN
BSA Gold Star Daytona
BSA Gold Star Scrambler
BSA Rocket Gold Star
BSA C15S
BSA Cyclone
Triumph T120
Triumph T100 Daytona
Triumph 5TA Trials
Triumph T100 Scrambles
Cheney 560 TT
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464019
11/19/12 3:58 pm
11/19/12 3:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,549
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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I don't put K70 tyres on the back wheel, because they wear so fast.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464112
11/20/12 2:24 am
11/20/12 2:24 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,177
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
the specs for a 1979 T140 and since it listed it as 4.10x18 decided to leave it at that,

You've reminded me that the Co-op did eventually go 4.25/85x18 on the back, and a couple of times I've posted the apocryphal story about the Service Department quietly changing them to 4.10 on any bike whose owner complained of 'funny handling' ... whistle However, with the 4.00x18, twins did have a wider rear than 4.10 for many years without problems, so possibly one factor was that the corresponding front was the narrower 3.25 while the Co-op paired the 4.25 with the wider 4.10 front ...?

Originally Posted By: Jon W. Whitley
not being overly familiar with the K81 rear of any size.

The K70 web page URL has been published already but I use this one - Dunlop "Vintage" tyres - to access both K70 and K81 specs.

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
Do I understand you correctly that the K81 3.60x19 is equal to the 3.25x19 only with a smaller diameter?

Yes. You can get an idea for yourself from the aforementioned Avon Roadriders web page - 3.25x19 has a very similar overall width to a 90/90x19 (very close equivalent to a 3.60x19) but the overall diameter of the 3.25x19 is much closer to the 100/90x19 (modern equivalent to a 4.10x19 but a slightly larger o.d.).

Originally Posted By: Simonofsweden
on the other hand I do enjoy riding and I do ride rather aggressively so I might go for the roadworthy compromise after all...

It's hard to be sure given tyres will or won't work for a given rider - different rider weights, different riding positions, different rider perceptions, different maintenance standards, even on things only slightly connected to the tyres ...

Originally Posted By: Irish Swede
My '72 Daytona never handled better than when I replaced the K-70 with a Dunlop "rib" front tire.

But, just because you can get "a Dunlop "rib" front tire" in the US, how do know Simon can get one in Sweden? Even if he could, afaict Dunlop don't appear to list any ""rib" front tire" officially, so what guarantee have you got that some part of Dunlop actually made the tyre, with some decent qa?

This is precisely why I can't see the point of searching out 30-, 40- 50-year-old tyre designs. Triumph (in this case) fitted their bikes with some of the best tyres available when the bikes were built. At least one tyre maker has invested millions bringing modern tyre design to our old clunkers. So I simply don't understand the logic of using tyres to a 40- or 50-year-old design probably knocked up in a shonky low-wage Far Eastern economy and possibly moulded in shonky old moulds. When the tyres are our sole connection to a world otherwise filled with multi-pot disc brakes, ABS, power-steering and more attention-grabbing gadgets than a space shuttle. confused

Originally Posted By: triton thrasher
I don't put K70 tyres on the back wheel, because they wear so fast.

Is there anything for classic bikes (aka "old clunkers") that doesn't "wear so fast"? frown

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464129
11/20/12 4:33 am
11/20/12 4:33 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,806
Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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Stuart, my Dunlop rib tire is a genuine, UK-made Dunlop that I bought some years ago when the second K-70 wore out.
The rib pattern was standard on Triumph road models up to and
including 1967. I had a '67 Bonnie and enjoyed how it handled.
I noticed a difference for the worse when I bought my '72 Daytona
with its K-70 front tire as soon as I rode it home.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. My choice is the
Dunlop (or any) rib tire for the front of my Triumph road model
twins.

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Stuart] #464157
11/20/12 9:34 am
11/20/12 9:34 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,549
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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triton thrasher  Offline
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Quote:

Originally Posted By: triton thrasher
I don't put K70 tyres on the back wheel, because they wear so fast.

Is there anything for classic bikes (aka "old clunkers") that doesn't "wear so fast"? frown
,


Yes. TT100, Roadrunner, Roadrider and SM MkII tyres all lasted longer than K70.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Stuart] #464193
11/20/12 3:39 pm
11/20/12 3:39 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden

This is great! I thank you all for lots of great input. Tomorrow my new rear hub arrives in the mail, later this week I'll get the new rim and as soon as I get a hold of some spokes I will start lacing up a new rear wheel. Probably replace the spokes on front wheel as well. Nothing wrong with them but they will look like crap compared to the new ones in the rear.
I might come back to this thread and post some pictures whenever it is all done.

/simon

p.s.
Originally Posted By: Stuart

But, just because you can get "a Dunlop "rib" front tire" in the US, how do know Simon can get one in Sweden?
As a rule of thumb we can get just about everything here that you can get in the states. With a few exceptions like turkey-ice cream (which a friend of mine actually ate once in New York city).


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: triton thrasher] #464337
11/21/12 3:08 pm
11/21/12 3:08 pm
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Posts: 99
UK
T
TripleTown Offline
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UK
Originally Posted By: triton thrasher

Yes. TT100, Roadrunner, Roadrider and SM MkII tyres all lasted longer than K70.


Agreed. I've always preferred a ribbed front on my Triumphs.

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464385
11/22/12 1:31 am
11/22/12 1:31 am
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Simon,

Just finished installing these Dunlop K70's on my 1971 Triumph TR6R. 4.00x18 rear and 3.25x19 front.

Took it for a ride today and it handles well. Mind you, I don't have my knee on the pavement in the twisties wink






Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #464403
11/22/12 6:22 am
11/22/12 6:22 am
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Posts: 5,166
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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DavidP  Offline

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Gnashville
Simon,
My '71 A65 had a 4.25/85x18 K81 on the rear when I bought it, pretty much as fat a tire as will fit.
I just replaced that with a 100/90x18 Road Rider.
It depends on your riding style. The fat tire is a bit more stable on the highway, but I prefer the handling of the 100/90.
I've never tried a 3.50 K70 on the front of any bike. But, I did have a 4.10 K81 on the front of a '71 Bonnie. It worked until I mounted the fender. Unless the wheel is absolutely true, there was not enough clearance to make me feel safe.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: DavidP] #482247
03/21/13 8:09 am
03/21/13 8:09 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Simonofsweden Offline OP
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Simonofsweden  Offline OP
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Posts: 252
Gothenburg/Stockholm, Sweden
Started this thread some time ago and here's how the new rear wheel turned out

IMG_3315 by Bohuslän i mitt hjärta, on Flickr

Fixing to take on lacing the front wheel next. Thanx for all the advice!

/s


I make misstakes on a daily basis!
Behold a selection of my different means of transportation (very poorly updated these days...) http://www.flickr.com/photos/bohuslan/sets/
Re: Question about Dunlop [Re: Simonofsweden] #482281
03/21/13 3:00 pm
03/21/13 3:00 pm
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Jon W. Whitley Online content

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It looks very nice...K70's coupled with the beauty of a Triumph spoked wheel is a recipe for perfection.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project


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