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Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #505824
09/12/13 8:31 am
09/12/13 8:31 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,841
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Anne, as your running the needle roller timing side conversion... where will you use the oil feed take off? SRM/Devimead used the front dowel as the feed.


beerchug
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Re: new engine [Re: Allan Gill] #505906
09/12/13 4:40 pm
09/12/13 4:40 pm
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline
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J
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

FYI The early Devimead motors were just a copper tube with a couple of banjo bolts, one end into the pressure switch port and the other into the alloy bush welded onto the timing cover to carry the quill seal.
A number of others used a similar manner then doing their own conversions to cut down in the machining work.

bye-o

John

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #506057
09/13/13 3:16 pm
09/13/13 3:16 pm
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netherlands
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lemans Offline OP
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a hose.
a oil line (hose) will run from the prv, modified of course, to the oil filter (norton style) and the to an ugly fat lump of alu welded to the outer timingsidecover to carry the oil-crankshaft seal. see my other pictures for details.

this time I'll try the down size the ugly lump so all will fit behind the timing side cover.

regards A

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #531003
03/01/14 6:00 pm
03/01/14 6:00 pm
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lemans Offline OP
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did some work today on the new engine in a well equipped workshop.
-bolted the outer timing side cover to the mill-bed
-used the innertiming side cover the line up spindle and main bearing centerline
-drill 28 mm made the required hole
-fitted inner timing side with needle roller bearing
-finished seal holder ready to be welded on the outer timing side cover

crankshaft still to be modified, it is a used item and today appeared to be bent, have to check that one again or use my own crankshaft (from my still running engine, modified in '82)

axial setup will remain more or less the same, with different parts and material selection.
oilpump still to choose.

[img:left]http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/lemans41/media/DSCF2400_zps98c8fc9e.jpg.html[/img]

[img]http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/lemans41/media/DSCF2401_zps4a2c3d22.jpg.html[/img]

regards Anne

Last edited by lemans; 03/01/14 6:02 pm.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #531009
03/01/14 7:17 pm
03/01/14 7:17 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,841
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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looks good Anne.

I admire your skills bigt


beerchug
Re: new engine [Re: NickL] #531050
03/02/14 12:59 am
03/02/14 12:59 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline
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J
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi

Or machine the seal carrier to size after welding to allow any distortion.
On one engine, I used aero-quip hose and fittings to pipe in the oil supply, this gave a bit of flexibility and looked quite tidy.

John

Last edited by JER.Hill; 03/02/14 1:00 am.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #551897
07/08/14 4:19 pm
07/08/14 4:19 pm
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 208
netherlands
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lemans Offline OP
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the srm-camshaft arrived today.
looks very good and should go with the 90 drg crank


Last edited by lemans; 07/08/14 4:19 pm.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #551898
07/08/14 4:22 pm
07/08/14 4:22 pm
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Ger B Offline
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Looking good, Anne. bigt


Ger B

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #603098
06/05/15 10:10 am
06/05/15 10:10 am
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netherlands
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lemans Offline OP
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netherlands
after a delay of more than a year things are picking up again.

dismantled my old engine as I need the rods for my new engine.
old bottom end has not been apart in 25 years!.

general condition: used, sludge trap completely filled, needle roller bearing in good condition, axial bearing in good condition.

used the stb BSA axial setup, however made a bronze bush to size as the main bearing was removed. will post some pictures.

Question: how to remove the sludge trap tube?.
anybody

regards Anne

Last edited by lemans; 06/05/15 10:10 am.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #603144
06/05/15 7:20 pm
06/05/15 7:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 313
Bowral NSW Australia
John Goodwin Offline
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Bowral NSW Australia
I've just removed one by using a 14 mm tap, just putting a couple of turns on the sludge trap and working it out using the tap as a puller. Very basic, but it worked.
I went to do the same on the second crank I have and the tap isn't a large enough diameter!
I'm going to make a dowel with a spring loaded peg to pick up the oil delivery hole. Bit like the system used on the quick adjustable alloy crutches and walking sticks you get.

Hope that helps.
Cheers John

Last edited by John Goodwin; 06/05/15 9:47 pm.

Current: 2 x 1966 A65S, 1 x 1967 A65SA, 1 x 69/70? A65LA space Y, 1 X D14/4 & 1 x B175
Past: 4 x 1976 T160V, 1 74/5 T150V, 83 model GSX 750 ESD, Z650, Katana 1100(Bathurst Model), 79 T140V, 70's TR6, 2 x 1971 BSA 250 Gold Stars, 50's 350 Goldie, A65 Spitfire semi basket case, 1965/6? A65 LC, Tiger 21 350 & a D14/4 Bantam, 175 Bridgestone Twin with Zimmerman discs!
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #603381
06/07/15 11:38 am
06/07/15 11:38 am
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lemans Offline OP
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promised to post pictures of the timing side main bearing conversion of the old engine.

needle roller is SKF "NKI 35/20 TN"
axial bearing is a modified std BSA, I made a bronze ring which is partly inserted in the main bearing bore. the axial setup has worked very well.

converted sometime in 1982~1983, all work done in the royal navy workshop.
hasn't been dismantled since, used regularly for the last 8 years,
total mileage after conversion, my best guess is 12~17.000 km


pictures tell the story.









Last edited by lemans; 06/08/15 4:52 pm.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #618098
09/19/15 4:48 am
09/19/15 4:48 am
Joined: Mar 2011
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lemans Offline OP
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new crank is in, collected yesterday from Nourish
marvelous piece of work, pictures tell the story

[img]http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/lemans...?sort=3&o=2[/img]

[img]http://s1233.photobucket.com/user/lemans...?sort=3&o=1[/img]



regards Anne

Last edited by lemans; 09/19/15 4:51 am.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #618100
09/19/15 5:12 am
09/19/15 5:12 am
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Ger B Offline
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Piece of art, Anne.
PS: you do not read my newspaper. Just joking mate.


Ger B

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #618104
09/19/15 6:32 am
09/19/15 6:32 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,332
Scotland
kommando Online content
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Shame to hide in a set of crankcases wink

What is the coating on the rod journals.

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #618122
09/19/15 10:08 am
09/19/15 10:08 am
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 333
Forfar, Scotland
J
JER.Hill Offline
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Forfar, Scotland
Hi Anne

Nice piece of kit, well worth the wait.

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #618124
09/19/15 10:16 am
09/19/15 10:16 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,841
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Nice work Anne, I like your end fed setup, does the thrust face allow you to run with some end float?


beerchug
Re: new engine [Re: Allan Gill] #618186
09/19/15 4:43 pm
09/19/15 4:43 pm
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lemans Offline OP
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indeed well worth the wait, more than well worth the wait. of course it took some time but when the piece of work in on your dinner table and you start imagining the amount of work to make this out of a solid lump with all sizes to spec, all centerlines lined up, it didn't take that long.

axial bearing setup is std BSA, in one of the previous post you could see my solution used 25 years ago. this worked well and will be used again in slightly modified form. the axial bearing setup BSA used for the A65 is a normal and proper method and I've never had any issues.

of course the axial bearing can be changed but that doesn't mean it will be improved.

coating on the rod journals is protective tape

regards A

Last edited by lemans; 09/19/15 4:45 pm.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #633717
01/05/16 9:34 am
01/05/16 9:34 am
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lemans Offline OP
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progress, holidays over, all the best 2016 wishes to all of you, drive safely.

finished the axial setup today
had the previous engine a genuine bronze axial bearing, this one will have to do with plain alu, with some alterations.

old engine; needle roller not supported on the outside, axial bearing press-fitted into the old main bearing hole. see previous posts
new engine; needle roller supported on the outside by a 4mm ridge, alu axial bearing plate loosely fitted.

as the old timing side bush + bronze insert is 4mm thick, I made the alu bearing out of a 4mm strip. It lies slightly raised above the timing side main casing material.

end float, negligable but all turns freely. casings will expand more, so no problem. actually my ducati has an negative end-float when cold.

regards A










Last edited by lemans; 01/05/16 9:37 am.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #633762
01/05/16 2:50 pm
01/05/16 2:50 pm
Joined: May 2013
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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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I've got to say I really liked your original setup with the modified bush.

I had ordered anRNA4907 bearing which arrived today, the OD is bigger than yours but the 20mm width is the same. For the oil groove to align with original I'm thinking of making a 4mm ring to sit on the inner side of the crank, then maybe a thrust washer inboard of that.



How will you hold your aluminium plate in place?


beerchug
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #633765
01/05/16 2:57 pm
01/05/16 2:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,134
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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A
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Bolton Lancs UK
Alan, with a needle roller bearing you do not want the oil spilling out of the oil groove into the bearing, that will be robbing oil pressure from the big ends.
Ideally the oilway leading to the groove should be plugged, the needle roller bearing will get plenty lubrication by splash


1955 BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350
1967 Greeves 360 Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #633771
01/05/16 3:26 pm
01/05/16 3:26 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,841
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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I don't want to Hijack Anne's thread here. However the crank is end fed so no pressure being lost, and there is a bleed to feed this bearing drilled in the crank case. But thanks for your interest.


beerchug
Re: new engine [Re: Allan Gill] #633794
01/05/16 5:10 pm
01/05/16 5:10 pm
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lemans Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Allan Gill


How will you hold your aluminium plate in place?


well, not at all. as you can see in picture 3 in post #633717, the BSA-shop machined a recess into the timingside casing. probably to standard dimensions for the crank and to provide a reasonable flat surface to press the main bearing bush to. the depth of this recess is small, prob less than 1~1,5mm (1/16 inch) but enough to prevent the alu-plate from sliding forward and backward. the ends of the recess are round and the alu-plate is filled to fit preceisly. so the axial bearing fits snugly, free to move a little bit but not much.

regards A

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #634405
01/09/16 2:01 pm
01/09/16 2:01 pm
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lemans Offline OP
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Dutch Approach

as the new set of cases came without nuts and bolts and the set from the old engine is rather knackered, new ones had to be sourced.

searching the internet, for instance: http://www.eBay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.X5%2F16+x+26+x+2.TRS0&_nkw=5%2F16+x+26+x+2&_sacat=0

revealed some ridiculous pricing; 5/16 x 26TPI x 2,5"@ 1,20GBP each. P&P to be added.

local machineshop has the correct dies for 4 GBP and M8 (yes metric) has the correct shaft diameter.

improvement possible, I'll make a new set out of M8 allen-bolts

regards A


Last edited by lemans; 01/09/16 2:02 pm.
Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #634413
01/09/16 2:48 pm
01/09/16 2:48 pm
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Ger B Offline
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Not only cheaper I think but you will also be sure you have the correct steel quality.

Looking good, Anne.



Ger B

Re: new engine [Re: lemans] #646101
03/28/16 9:04 am
03/28/16 9:04 am
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lemans Offline OP
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started today with axial end float/play
straightforward task: mount crankshaft in cases, measure end-float. insert spacer acc to calculation. measure end-float. finished.

still there is some voodoo involved. first measurement 0,67mm. inserted 0,65mm spacers. second measurement 0,07mm end float. hmm somewhere found another 0,05mm play. added an extra 0,05mm spacer. third measurement 0,07mm float. hmmmm, cases are made of putty. added more spacers and am satisfied at 0,04mm with the thought of putting the cases together with ducati superbond liquid gasket.

reg A




Last edited by lemans; 01/08/17 1:05 pm.
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