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74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? #465189
11/27/12 7:46 pm
11/27/12 7:46 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Rochester, NY USA
K
Keith Hyde Offline OP
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Keith Hyde  Offline OP
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K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Rochester, NY USA
I recently purchased a 74 Roadster and would like to have the tank and side covers refinished in the original candy apple red color. Anyone know where I can find an equivalent paint color?

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Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465224
11/27/12 11:49 pm
11/27/12 11:49 pm
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
west central ohio where all be...
D
drp Offline
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drp  Offline
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D
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 554
west central ohio where all be...
I don't know the color code but two years ago I sent my 73 candy apple roadster tank and side covers to Don Roe(DWR)from this site. The tank and one of the side covers had been crunched and Don did great job repairing my parts and coming up with a great color match. I recently picked up an interstate tank and side covers and hopefully I can get these sent to Don this winter. Don also painted my Norton Atlas tank and it looks great too. You can't go wrong if you send it to Don (new jingle?).

Dave

Last edited by drp; 11/27/12 11:49 pm.
Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465231
11/28/12 1:06 am
11/28/12 1:06 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
R
Rohan Offline
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Rohan  Offline
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R
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Oztralia
Don't have a code either. But candy apple red is a silver fleck basecoat oversprayed with a transparent red top coat - and probably with clearcoat over that these days.

Its very noticeable that BMs, Suzook, Onda and HD all have extremely similar colors too these days - whether they are identical though.. ?

Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465254
11/28/12 8:05 am
11/28/12 8:05 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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Posts: 5,963
NL
Hinkley Triumph has or had a candy apple red on the Sprint models.
But as Rohan says: whether they are identical...


Ger B

Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465273
11/28/12 12:04 pm
11/28/12 12:04 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,232
Scotland
kommando Offline
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Scotland
They can't be identical as the colour sprayed varied from day to day, it was a silver base over sprayed with coats of a red coloured varnish, the coat thickness and the number of coats varied which means there is no modern exact match. The colour also faded very quickly under the sun to an orange.


Plundered this from the AMC website, other than being called Candy apple Red there may be no other connection but worth a try.

Candy Apple Red
(As used on the late G80CS and other Matchless and Norton of the same vintage):
First of all, this color is correct (sic) for the very last short stroke G80CS machines, that being
late 1965, 1966 and 1967. Contrary to some popular opinion there were no G80CS's
manufactured in 1968. There were several of them that were titled and sold as being 1968
machines, but that is an entirely different thing than manufactured.
My 1967 G80CS is the 32nd from the very last one made and it was dispatched from Plumstead
on May 1, 1967, shipping docket K1614 and shipped to Joseph Berliner Corp. in New Jersey,
then to Poke Cycle in Seattle, Washington when it was purchased by the original owner. I
subsequently purchased it from him. The very last G80CS manufactured was shipped to a
dealer in Canada during early August of 1967.
Again, contrary to popular belief, there is no metal flake in the Candy Apple color. The metallic
appearance was generated through the use of a medium silver base coat which also was used
to accomplish the hand lining of the tank.
What follows is the recipe for the base, color and top coats using PPG Deltron 2000 DBC
Acrylic Urethane paint. I would suggest the use of PPG DPLF Epoxy Primer if there are minimal
scratches on the bare metal surface. This can be sanded with two to three coats but generally
not much more than that. If the requirement to fill deep scratches and voids is necessary, than
first prime the bare metal surface with an appropriate PPG epoxy primer, then use PPG PRIMA
K36 Acrylic Urethane Primer Surfacer. You can fill a large amount of scratches and voids to
arrive at a perfect surface with this material.
To mix ONE PINT of the base color, the formula is:
354.4 grams of Deltron DMD690, with,
106.6 grams of Deltron DMD689
This gives a one pint total of 461.2 grams of Orion Silver (DBC34236).
The silver base coat is considered to be a course silver
Place two coats of this silver on the tank as the base coat.
To mix ONE PINT of the color coat (G80CS RED), the formula is:
12.4 grams of Deltron DMX211 Orange, with,
17.7 grams of Deltron DMX214, with,
399.8 grams of Deltron DBC500
This gives a gives a one pint total of 429.9 grams of G80CS RED (my name not theirs).
Place 4 to 5 LIGHT coats of this color coat over the base coat of coarse silver.
The final TOP COAT is Deltron DCU2042 Low VOC Speed Clear, but that can be substituted
be some other clear coats. I would advise caution when substituting the Clear Coat to insure
that it is compatible with the PPG Deltron 2000 color coat.
You can obtain a spec sheet on all of these individual parts and pieces by simply going to any
local PPG dealer and asking for the following informational specification sheets:
PPG P-196 covering DPLF Epoxy Primer,
PPG P-169P covering PRIMA Acrylic Urethane Primer Surfacer K36 (it is vitally important to
remember that this can not be used on bare metal,
PPG P-175 Deltron 2000 Base coat DBC/DBI, and finally,
PPG P216 DCU 2042 Low VOC Speed Clear DCU2042.
The easiest way to obtain the silver striping is simply to mask the desired strips prior to applying
the color top coat. The dimensions for the striping are available in the material that I sent to you
and it has the correct spacing, widths, and parameters for the two stripes.

http://archives.jampot.dk/Technical/Tank_details_and_transfers/AMC_Paint_codes.pdf

Last edited by kommando; 11/28/12 5:58 pm. Reason: added codes and link to pdf
Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465497
11/30/12 12:59 am
11/30/12 12:59 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
R
Rohan Offline
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Rohan  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Oztralia
Be interesting to see a finished example of this color, to ensure the elaborate formula is correct ?

Although as folks are keen to point out, probably not even Nortons consistently applied the exact same red to all bikes.
You see quite a range of red AMC tank finishes.

Even today, paint suppliers suggest painting all from the same can (after stirring WELL), since the next one may vary a little...

Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465513
11/30/12 3:01 am
11/30/12 3:01 am
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 591
Oregon
D
Dana_twin Offline
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Posts: 591
Oregon
Presumably you are referring to the 1974 model year Commando 850 Roadster? If you want urethane candy and silver base coat may I suggest RS Motorbike paint? They offer a candy apple red and silver metallic base coat for that year and will ship urethane to the USA by air, you can look it up on their website. I've had excellent experience with RS, and also with a vintage bike painter in Richardson Texas, name upon request via PM. A lot of it is in the look of the silver base coat and I know some are recommending gold. I am risking the mandatory big flame here, but modern urethane paint colours will never precisely match the original period two pack lacquer... ie that original type of lacquer which is now unlawful in most states. It's just the way urethane paint is. In my humble opinion, the RS product is as close as you will get for the least hassle and the least money, but that's just my $.02 cents and based on my own experience. Your mileage may vary...

Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465670
12/01/12 1:26 am
12/01/12 1:26 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
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Rohan Offline
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Rohan  Offline
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R
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Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
Didn't mean to steer this discussion off track (from 74 Commando) by mentioning AMC candy red paint - its just that Nortons have been using candy red paint for quite some years.

P.S. There is no evidence that Nortons EVER used any gold in their paints anywhere, anyone suggesting this is misguided, and is adding modern developments in paint technology to bikes that would never have seen this... ??

The exception may be the Jubilee Model, was it ?, that was actually gold plated. Genuine gold though, for a superspecial show model, no paint involved...

Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Rohan] #465689
12/01/12 3:18 am
12/01/12 3:18 am
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,519
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
JBMorris Offline
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JBMorris  Offline
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Posts: 1,519
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Originally Posted By: Rohan
There is no evidence that Nortons EVER used any gold in their paints anywhere, anyone suggesting this is misguided,


Maybe- maybe not.

My beloved Bonnie finished in C.A.R. was White, then Gold, then Red, although when purchased at + 6 years from new, the red was only available to see as overspray underneath the gas cap.

As NVT became a reality in 1973, it's possible that some antiquated painting technology with lacquer paints was shared?

Here is a scan from a Polaroid when mine was about 6 years faded:



Switched over to an enamel 'Cherry Red', over the lacquer(!), close enough for the 'Judges' who live around my block!

shocked



The black center is 'High Temp' enamel and has stood up quite well- has a ceramic additive to resist gas spills.

bigt bigt


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Re: 74 Commando Candy Apple Red equivalent color? [Re: Keith Hyde] #465693
12/01/12 3:57 am
12/01/12 3:57 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
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Rohan Offline
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Rohan  Offline
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R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,068
Oztralia
No question they used gold pinstriping back then, and Triumph had had some gold paint on some models.

But gold flake under factory candy paints - naaaaa.

Or gold flakes in 1950s featherbed paints - NAAAAA ...

Sure, it can be done in modern paint formulas - but back then ???


Moderated by  Alan_nc 


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