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#457401 - 10/05/12 4:00 pm Identifying RE 1960?  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Steve Erickson Online content
Steve Erickson  Online Content


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The Northwoods... Michigan
A friend dealing with an Estate has contacted me for info regarding what he believes is a 1960 Royal Enfield single. He hasn't sent pictures or details yet, but has dug up a few numbers to "help" identify the bike.

These aren't much help to me, as I know little about RE. Is there a site that lists the VIN and range for various years and models?

He has a Colorado title that doesn't offer much apparently. He will be sending pictures and more info that I will try to post here.

This bike will be sold, not by me, but I'll try to offer it here first if there is interest.

Any help is appreciated!

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#457411 - 10/05/12 5:04 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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George Elston Offline
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George Elston  Offline
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upstate ny
Steve
As far as I know they were still using a G prefix for the 350s and a J prefix for the 500s. Unless it's a unit motor in which case it is likely to be a 250 although they made a few 350 unit singles also.


57 Woodsman
64 Interceptor
58 Trailblazer
59 Constellation
64 500 Sport twin
61 Hornet

2001 W650
1966 W1
#457495 - 10/05/12 11:40 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: George Elston]  
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Steve Erickson Online content
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Thanks George... though that doesn't correspond with the "M" that he gave me as a suffix. I don't think he has actually located the VIN yet, probably just reading casting numbers or title code to me.

Does the number 37619 sound like anything belonging to a RE of that vintage?

I'll find out more in the next couple days, and then... maybe... won't be asking such iggie questions!

#457497 - 10/05/12 11:49 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Gordon Gray Online sad
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Gordon Gray  Online Sad
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North Carolina
I'm watching this one closely.

Can't wait to see what it turns out to be.

Current caretaker of one of the "Worlds Slowest Indians"...Gordon in NC

#458109 - 10/10/12 2:09 am Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Steve Erickson Online content
Steve Erickson  Online Content


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The Northwoods... Michigan
The numbers he found on the bike were almost under the horn bracket... G251619. So I guess it is a 350. The title, as I said, shows it is a 1960. I hope I am able to post a few pictures here, we'll see...

Anyway, the bike, especially the forks, look to be modern. Though some things, like the primary case, look vintage. Do the numbers indicate a 1960 bike?... and if you can see these pictures, does it look like a combo of new and old?

Any assessment of this bike would be welcomed!

Attached Files RE1.JPGRE2.JPGRE3.JPG
#458133 - 10/10/12 8:48 am Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Rohan Online content
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Oztralia
Single seats style looks odd for that era ?

The carb on that looks to be a Mikcarb, which suggests its going to be Indian made. The tank and other bits also look Indian made. But given that lotsa parts are interchangeable (as you would expect, given their common origins) you may have to look closely at all the bits to see exactly what it all is. Brit Enfields had a dual sided brake and leading axle fork, not sure the Madras ones had that ??

Rear tyre needs some factory air...

Nice looking bike.

Really need a pic of the timing side to better compare to the factory brochure. Someone who knows their Madras Enfields could probably say just by looking, but I think that style battery and toolbox mounting has no english connection for a supposed 1960 model.

Cheers.

#458147 - 10/10/12 11:46 am Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Rohan]  
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Sandgroper Offline
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Beyond the Black Stump
The G2 number indicates a 350, circa 1962-63, sent in kit form from England to India. However, there is very little, if anything, on the bike that is that old. The cylinder head shows that the engine is a 500, either a restamped 1990's-up or a converted late 350 - beware! Forks, wheels, swingarm, sidestand, mudguards, tank, toolboxes, centre stand and battery carrier are all 1980's or later.
It is possible that the frame and casquette are original, but given the dubious provenance of everything else, I'd be wondering. Are there any frame numbers stamped on the left-side of the headstock, just forward of the tank mounting bolt. Any numbers with an EI prefix on frame or left crankcase?

#458149 - 10/10/12 12:04 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Sandgroper]  
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obsolete Offline
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huntsville ont. canada
I would not hesitate to say that the bike is a later India built Enfield . The front forks , front wheel , casquette , tank , fenders , toolbox , battery holder , carb . , side stand , rear stand , all lead to that assumption . A picture of the back wheel hub would help ID that item better .
Possibly the frame is of the early type but if the original numbers are not stamped on the headstock (left side), then it was likley restamped so that it could be titled in whatever country it came to .
Please do not take this as written in stone . Just a observation taken from the pictures .

Last edited by obsolete; 10/10/12 12:05 pm.

1959 Constellation
1968 MK 1A Interceptor
1960 Pashley
1958 Crusader
1962 Super Five
1967 Continental GT
1959 Big Head Fury/Westerner
195? 500 Bullet Woodsman/Westerner ? #6655
1950 Model RE
1946 Model RE
1950 Model G
1955 250 Clipper
#458173 - 10/10/12 3:44 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Steve Erickson Online content
Steve Erickson  Online Content


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The Northwoods... Michigan
Thank you all for your opinions Gents.

He has checked the headstock for numbers and could find none. Does anyone know if Colorado would issue title based on engine number alone? It wouldn't happen in Cal.

I'll have him check again, and see if I can get a photo of the other side, but I think that this will confirm your opinions. I suspected original engine in a modern frame, but based on the odd location of the stamp (and displacement?), I now wonder if even that is original...

#458175 - 10/10/12 4:31 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Sandgroper Offline
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Beyond the Black Stump
A frame without numbers is not original, period. As for the engine, that definitely is not the original one. The tell-tale in your photo is the crankcase breather below the left side of the cylinder, which on all UK-made Bullets was a triangular block attached by three screws. The arrangement visible in the photo, i.e. a cast-on elbow, appeared on the India-built machines in the 1980's.

#458303 - 10/11/12 12:08 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Don Leaming Online content
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Ontario Canada
Nice panniers and seating though.
Looks very much the early 1990s 500s imported into Canada by Terry and Don of T&D Impex.


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
#458622 - 10/13/12 7:19 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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crippledog Offline
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Northern Illinois
Hello.
Just joined up and this is my first post. I have a twin cylinder, single carb, Indian tagged motor in my possesion. The number stamped on the left hand crankcase is CDH5962B. Can I get some help in idntifying what model and year this motor is from? Thanks.

#458645 - 10/13/12 10:21 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: crippledog]  
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Sandgroper Offline
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Beyond the Black Stump
I think you are on the wrong forum here, C'dog. That isn't a number from a British-made Indian. I presume the motor you have is a Vee twin, in which case the CDH indicates an American-made 1948 Indian Chief.

#458691 - 10/14/12 1:52 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Sandgroper]  
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Northern Illinois
Thanks for the reply. It is definitely a vertical twin. Defintely not a v-twin. I'll try to look for more numbers but these are quite visable on the left hand side below the cylinder and above the primary chain cover and just above an aluminum plate that holds a rear chain oiler tube that extends back to just above the front drive sprocket. The Indian logo is where the Royal Enfield tag would have been on the timing cover. Red script on a flatened oval. The 4 speed trans with neutral finder is bolted to the rear of the motor and the front motor mounts are in place and look very similar to Indian made Bullet motor mounts produced today. Thanks.

#458695 - 10/14/12 2:48 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Sandgroper Offline
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Beyond the Black Stump
I don't know what to say about that, C'dog! Very strange. Any chance of posting some pics?

#459016 - 10/16/12 2:12 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Sandgroper]  
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crippledog Offline
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Northern Illinois
Yep, took some photos now just trying to slog my way through the posting process. I'll try to have something up shortly. Thanks..

Last edited by crippledog; 10/17/12 12:02 pm.
#459141 - 10/17/12 12:05 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Sandgroper]  
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crippledog Offline
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Northern Illinois
Posted a few photos this a.m. Any ideas? Thanks.

#459148 - 10/17/12 1:07 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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Sandgroper Offline
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Beyond the Black Stump
OK. This looks like a late 1957 or later 700 twin, with the scissor clutch introduced in the late 1950's. The revcounter might suggest it was originally from an Apache, which was the only model with a tacho as standard, but the timing covers are easily swapped so it isn't definitive.

However, those are absolutely not Enfield factory number stampings; the crankcase has visibly been machined to remove the original numbers, and without those, the engine cannot be accurately identified as to it's exact origin. Strange thing to do to one of these - possibly somebody already had an Indian title with those numbers on that they wished to use. Or, perhaps it was stolen and this was done to hide it's identity.

There is one thing more you can check which might pin things down a little. On the right side top of the gearbox, there will be a number consisting of three letters followed by two or three numerals. This is the gearbox number, which should also be stamped on the front of the right-hand crankcase, indicating that the two were paired at the factory. They should help to narrow down the year of production.

#459183 - 10/17/12 6:45 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Sandgroper]  
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crippledog Offline
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Northern Illinois
Thanks.
I find HDX 352 on the trans but I find nothing on the front of the crankcase although it does appear that some filing might have gone on in the area of where the numbers should have been on the right, front of the crankcase.
It is funny that the serial number for the motor would have been machined away. I agree that the area has been machined but somebody would have had to go to a lot of trouble to machine that area. Also, the machined surface matches perfectly to the cylinder base edge. Can't figure what a motivated thief might be willing to do to keep a bike or hide a bikes ownership.
I notice the cylinder base have BMC cast into the side bottom edge as is visable in one of the photos. Would that indicate replacement cyclinders. Thanks

#459229 - 10/17/12 11:40 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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San Antonio, Texas
HDX transmissions were grouped in the 1958 manufacturing year and were used on Trailblazers & Apaches. The prefix CD was only used on Meteor Minor 500cc machines in the 1960/61 time frame but the H for "Heavy Crankshaft" was only used in a spotty fashion on 700cc engines plus the number would have been above 30137 for a CD prefix. The Indian logo indicates USA import parts plus the 10TT9 carb and K2F type mag points further toward Apache. The cylinders appear to be the 700cc and are taller than the 500cc cylinders. There are some good bits there but the crankcase is unidentifiable to any information I have. Graham would have more info than I but it does look "restamped" and the access bolts are plumb missing from the ports there too. They might have done some welding & filing to obliterate the previous numbers. The prefixes were usually stamped in front of the first access hole there then the number was between the two ports there and usually above the centerline of the ports not below.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 10/17/12 11:56 pm.
#459320 - 10/18/12 3:34 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: rotorwrench]  
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crippledog Offline
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Northern Illinois
Thanks for the info. Looks like the motor might have had an interesting past. Thinking about putting it into a later model 500 cc single, Indian manufacture frame. Looks like it might fit straght away. Any thoughts on the installation? Thanks.

#459322 - 10/18/12 4:06 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: crippledog]  
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royaloilfield Online content
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Trenton, New Jersey
Originally Posted By: crippledog
Thanks for the info. Looks like the motor might have had an interesting past. Thinking about putting it into a later model 500 cc single, Indian manufacture frame. Looks like it might fit straght away. Any thoughts on the installation? Thanks.


I'VE Seen this done with this very engine. It apparently slots right in with some modifications!


Brian
#459489 - 10/19/12 6:38 pm Re: Identifying RE 1960? [Re: Steve Erickson]  
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rotorwrench Offline
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rotorwrench  Offline
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San Antonio, Texas
The India built single frame is a lighter duty frame than the ones built in Redditch. You could likely get it to work but it might have structural problems eventually due to the higher power output of the big twin engine. The big twins used that type frame prior to 1956 but were improved to the heavier frame due to structural problems. Royal Enfield made use of steel forgings on key structural areas where the Madras/Chennai frames did not.

If a person could scrounge up an old Indian Trailblazer, Apache, or Chief basket case they'd have a good chunk of engine parts to build one up. They still show up on flea pay now and then.



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