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#447163 - 08/02/12 1:23 am Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$  
Joined: Jan 2008
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JBMorris Offline
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JBMorris  Offline
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Turns out I did an Internet search for Dunlop tire warranty regarding my 4.5 years old D404 because of sidewall cracking.

First hit on Google was my own post here on Britbike!

Called my local LLC service (who installed the tires) for help.

Was informed that the warranty expired at 4 years!

That's nice to know and also went on Dunlop website to enquire. . .

. . .no response.


Was quoted (from LLC) the usual caveat about wear and ozone etc., my tire treads are in perfect low mileage condition and have spent most of the time in a closed shed!

The only redemption I can claim is that anyone using the Internet regarding Dunlop tires will forever see this negative review without any detriment to the host (?).

My classic Triumph still has the yellow Dunlop sticker on the rear fender when the seat is hinged open.

So much for originality, so much for good faith, so much for safety, so much for Dunlop as you have just lost a repeat customer!

Rant over - donations accepted for a set of Avon's!

In 4 years time, mileage is allmost nil- this is a weekend type bike, the tread is like new:



1978 Bonneville T140V PX
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#447204 - 08/02/12 8:53 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,305
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,305
Scotland
Hi

Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
sidewall cracking.

More as a general comment but ime, this has always been something of a Dunlop problem. I first encountered it back in the late 1970's after I bought my first T160; I worked for a shipping company and was often away for several months at a time; I had to replace the tyres pretty much at the beginning of every leave. mad Iirc, TT100's were still made in GB then. frown

I'd begun to think they'd solved the problem. When Dunlop brought out the K181 - still called 'TT100' but with different front and rear tread patterns - I swapped one T160 to them and certainly the front is still sitting around on a wheel without any cracks. And the T150 I bought about seven or eight years ago came with new K81 TT100's; they're still fine.

However, while it might not be a problem with Brien's tyres, Dunlop appears to have shifted production of certainly lower-quality/volume tyres to other, lower-wage, Far Eastern countries. Is Dunlop HQ in Japan keeping a close eye on quality? With all the other problems the country, and possibly the company face, do they care enough?

Originally Posted By: Brien Morrissey
donations accepted for a set of Avon's!

From late '79, I was working in London and running my work (Jap) bike on Avon Roadrunners; once Dunlop became Japanese, since I couldn't tell any quality difference between the two makes, jingoism seemed as valid a consideration as any other grin and, after fitting those K181's to one T160, I've always used Avon Roadrunners on everything until I bought that T150. I've never encountered cracking on any iteration of Roadrunner tyres.

One of the complaints voiced when BSA/Triumph was failing was that people weren't buying the bikes that Triumph (and BSA) were making. While I don't think anyone would argue today that one of the reasons for that was the-then gulf in quality between British and Japanese bikes. However, in the case of Avon Roadriders and something like the Dunlop D404's, is there any discernible difference in quality (ride/wear)? Especially on a British bike, I cannot see any reason not to use quality British tyres.

Hth.

Regards,

#447209 - 08/02/12 9:59 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: Stuart]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 209
Trevor Stapp Offline
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Trevor Stapp  Offline
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New Zealand
Have Dunlop K70's on my pre war speed twin.
Less than 5,000k on the rear, very , very, dissapointed.
At nz$160 notes each I might as well have fitted some elcheepo Mitas from the old Eastern Block or some Chin Shin from Taiwan (China).

Cheers,
Trev


66T100SR Cafe racer
59 T20 Cub
1938 - 53 5T Bitsa project, now a roller
Duplex frame under the bench
#447219 - 08/02/12 10:31 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: Trevor Stapp]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,305
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi Trev,

Originally Posted By: Trevor Stapp
Have Dunlop K70's on my pre war speed twin.
Less than 5,000k on the rear, very , very, dissapointed.

The cynical might suggest that's how Dunlop deal with the cracking problem - even on low-powered bikes, they wear out quickly ... whistle

I don't have a cynical bone in my body. grin

Regards,

#447251 - 08/02/12 4:51 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 482
OriginalScott Online content
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OriginalScott  Online Content
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NY
Counterpoint:

Avon AM9 under 800 miles



Dunlop K81 well over 1000 miles



Scott

#447283 - 08/02/12 8:52 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: OriginalScott]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,305
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi Scott,

Originally Posted By: OriginalScott
Dunlop K81 well over 1000 miles

That's what my T150's K81's look like, bigt and they're older.

Originally Posted By: OriginalScott
Avon AM9 under 800 miles

Age? Otherwise dunno, haven't used 'original Roadrunners' in decades, I've used 'later Roadrunners' - AM20/21, F2/R2, etc. Asked Avon?

Hth.

Regards,

#447290 - 08/02/12 9:28 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 482
OriginalScott Online content
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OriginalScott  Online Content
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NY
Hi Stuart,

I contacted Avon and I have to go through an official Avon dealer. They should be covered under warranty but Avon needs the tire in their possession before they issue a replacement. The build date on the tire is 2007. I have a matching rear that does not have any cracks. I just wanted to point out that it can happen with any brand. Who knows why it happens but I believe it is a manufacturing issue. The good thing with Avon tires in North America is that the warranty is based on tread depth not a set length of time.

Scott

#447310 - 08/02/12 11:30 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: OriginalScott]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,515
JBMorris Offline
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JBMorris  Offline
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
New search for Dunlop shows as 'Vintage', available in K70 or K81 / TT100 series.

Were these available back in '08?

Stuart,
To be honest, this morning wanted to delete this post as being somewhat abrasive but as you replied (being 5 hours ahead), let the chips fall where they may!

Never did any research- just asked for Dunlop to fit the decrepid Continentals that were on it!


Old front: 325-19 = 100-90
Old rear : 400-18 = 110-90

New 'D404' as fitted is a 'Metric' tire series?


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#447319 - 08/03/12 12:35 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,305
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted By: JBMorris
New search for Dunlop shows as 'Vintage', available in K70 or K81 / TT100 series.
Were these available back in '08?

K81 was developed in the mid- to late-1960's as a rear tyre for the Triumph and BSA triples, and twins like the Commando and tuned 650's from all the makers, which were ripping bits out of K70's on the rear. By how long the K70 predates the K81, I don't know.

The K70 and K81 remain available, when later tyres have come and gone, because Dunlop discerns a sufficiently-large world-wide market in those owners of decades-old Britbikes who take what they read in decades-old Britbike manuals as immutable gospel. whistle

Originally Posted By: JBMorris
Old front: 325-19 = 100-90
Old rear : 400-18 = 110-90

Ye-ea-ah ... take yourself to the Avon Roadrider page and ask yourself why, if the above are really "equivalent", does a maker like Avon make four different tyres for those four sizes? Then look at the overall dimensions of each tyre size and ask yourself whether certain tyre makers have the same dictionary definition of "equivalent" as the Oxford English Dictionary? wink Then remember that tyre makers stay in business by selling the tyres they make, not by riding your bike. grin Finally, remember that certain tyre makers simply tell shocking porkies ... whistle

Hth.

Regards,

#447330 - 08/03/12 3:02 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 482
OriginalScott Online content
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OriginalScott  Online Content
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NY
The K81 comes in 3 sizes: 4.10H19, 4.25H18, and 4.10H18. Like Stuart said they have been available continuously since the late 60s. On the disk braked OIF bikes with the underslung caliper the 4.25H18 will rub the inside of the chainguard. The 4.10H18 is the way to go for the rear if you want K81s. They are really modern tires with old tread patterns. And yes the K81 rears will wear out first, probably before 5,000 miles. Tires Unlimited sells them pretty cheap. http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Dunlop/dunlop_vintage_k70.htm

Since I have both the Avon RoadRunner (original tread design AM9) and the K81 installed right now on bikes that get ridden, I can honestly say that they are both great tires. Neither tire has ever broken loose on me and aside from the sidewall cracking on the front Avon I am happy with both. Just to note the K81 front that I replaced on my T140E had sidewall cracks but it was made in England and probably the original tire.

Scott

#447360 - 08/03/12 2:55 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
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GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Seems there hasn't been any comment regarding tire age (other than one reference to a build dagte with respect to warranty).

What needs to be considered is that tires may be built, shipped to a distributor, and sit for years in a hot, dry warehouse 'till they are shipped to a reseller.

Just becasue you start to take care of the low mileage tire from that point on, doesn't mean it hasn't already been subjected to permanent damage-inducing conditions.

As was mentioned, this can (and does) happen to ANY brand of tire.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
#447363 - 08/03/12 3:28 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 227
skidog Offline
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Left Coast
My 2 cents worth
Have had Roadriders on my bike for three years now and am satisfied. Will probably put them on the 72 T100R when ready for them.

Dave


1967 TR6R
1972 T100R
#447614 - 08/05/12 8:04 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,524
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
Skidog- what size roadriders did you put on your 67 TR6R? Maybe I should try some.

I use K70s on my 67 because I like the look of them and they work fine for me (very rarely more than 80mph). I can lean the bike right over on fast bends and nothing bad happens. The back one wears out in about 4000 miles. I don't get any sidewall cracking but there was a bit between the treads on the last front one at the end of its life. The front lasts a lot longer than the back, of course, so has time to perish, I suppose.

#447739 - 08/05/12 8:03 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,462
HawaiianTiger Online content
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Posts: 5,462
Maui Hawaii
I suspect that rubber compound has something to do with the sidewall cracking. My D404's had sidewall cracking long before the tread was worn out and I ride every day all year long. I rarely get two years out of a tire. Other tires I have had never had any cracking after years. My TT100's wore out so fast they didn't have a chance to crack.
I've since started to try other brands. I have a Duro tire on my KZ but i'm using a tire prep by Armorall to test their claim that it prevents side wall cracking.
Cracking between the treads is another thing altogether.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#447753 - 08/05/12 9:08 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Jul 2012
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smokey1962 Offline
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smokey1962  Offline
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Posts: 87
Birmingham - UK
Hiya Folks - newbie on here so please show patience !! When I used to have my tubeless (car) tyres repaired (punctures plugged). The tyre fitter I used to frequent refused to repair tyres over 5 years old (Original Scotts date of 2007 would put them in that time braket) !!
I'm looking at fitting new tyres to my T140E (mongerel) and having been in Warehousing/stores as a trade for some years I know how long stuff can sit on shelves etc.
What worries me is when ordering new tyres - How can you ensure you can get recent stock & not get old knackered tyres when ya parts with ya cash ?? - Smokey


1980 T140E/V/TSX (Mongrel)
2004 Harley 883 custom sportster
#447762 - 08/05/12 9:51 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: smokey1962]  
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JBMorris Offline
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JBMorris  Offline
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Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Hi Smokey,

There was an earlier post about the cracks and 'mblab' commented:

Quote:
There should be a date somewhere on the tire. First 2 numbers denote the week the tire was made, last 2 the year. Some people won't use a tire more than a few years old, say its dangerous. Personally, I wouldn't use one that looks like yours.
I order my tires from Tires Unlimited and always ask for a recent date code. Last ones I got were only 3 months out of the mold



Oh yeah, welcome aboard!, he was right and my tire showed a build date of '07, and they were bought in '08.

The tires on the bike when i bought it were Continentals, and after 15 years (in storage) were totally shot.

Did zero research, just noticed the 'Dunlop' sticker and assumed they were original.

Did not ask for a cheap set of tires, just Dunlop.

Finding out the hard way that 'Impulse' shopping may not be the best!

Good luck with yours and let us know how it goes.

Still think a tire sidewall should last a bit longer!



1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#447791 - 08/06/12 12:32 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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DavidP Offline
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DavidP  Offline

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Gnashville
"There should be a date somewhere on the tire. First 2 numbers denote the week the tire was made, last 2 the year."

Only numbers I can find on my , Made in USA, K81 are DA6C M1A178.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
#448002 - 08/07/12 2:20 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
79T140E Offline
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79T140E  Offline
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washington state
How dangerous is a tire with cracking down by the bead. I personally don't know of a tire coming apart but I would hate to find out the hard way.

#448004 - 08/07/12 2:39 am Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: 79T140E]  
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Posts: 1,515
JBMorris Offline
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JBMorris  Offline
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Posts: 1,515
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Quote:
How dangerous is a tire with cracking down by the bead.

woodsie,
Good question and to be honest , am still riding this time bomb (?), that is to say slowly(?)!

It does have a tube innit, so some semblance of safety?

Dunlop has responded to my problem, just recently, so we are negotiating a resolution?

Quote:
The warranty covers cracking for four years ( from the date of manufacture ) or until the tire is worn out.
Please contact the dealer of purchase for an evaluation of the tire in question
The dealer has the ability to adjust when a warrantable condition exists.



. . . don't quite get this one but will wait and see . .


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#448068 - 08/07/12 5:44 pm Re: Dunlop tires ,Vintage Triumph, don't waste your $$ [Re: JBMorris]  
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 227
skidog Offline
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Left Coast

Mr Jones "Skidog- what size roadriders did you put on your 67 TR6R? Maybe I should try some."

3.25x19 Front
4.00x18 Rear

The 3.25X19 on the front went on full of air and the fender intact.

Dave


1967 TR6R
1972 T100R

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