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best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo #437240
05/29/12 2:12 pm
05/29/12 2:12 pm
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
S
Skip Kologiski Offline OP
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Skip Kologiski  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
I am updating the top end on my 62 tr6 to a 9 bolt head. Are there any year heads that are better than others for the 650s

I also have a 750 Morgo kit and was thinking about installing it. What would be the pros and cons of the 750 kit

Thanks

Last edited by Skip Kologiski; 05/29/12 2:17 pm.
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Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437248
05/29/12 3:03 pm
05/29/12 3:03 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,457
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Online content

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JubeePrince  Online Content

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Back on the mainland!
I seem to recall reading here somewhere (John Healy?), that more power and speed was found with the small-port, small-valve head from '63

Apparently, bigger is not always better!

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437272
05/29/12 5:36 pm
05/29/12 5:36 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,834
Bishop, Calif.
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desco Offline
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Bishop, Calif.
If you can get a copy of "Sportbike Performance Handbook" by Kevin Cameron there are whole chapters on intake and exhaust port design, air flow and a multitude of other subjects. You may already have the the best head for your bike if I remember what Healy said. You may just be in need of a "proper" valve job. I know my old 56 T110 could run circles around any Bonneville I've owned.
The book is written in plain English and is a good read on a cold winters night.

Last edited by desco; 05/29/12 5:46 pm. Reason: addition

1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437275
05/29/12 6:23 pm
05/29/12 6:23 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,990
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Maui Hawaii
Up side: 750cc = more fun
Down side. 750cc = more vibes, and wear and tear on everything.
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 05/29/12 6:23 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: HawaiianTiger] #437279
05/29/12 7:30 pm
05/29/12 7:30 pm
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
S
Skip Kologiski Offline OP
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Skip Kologiski  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
My stock hesd has the normal crack between the combustion chambers, so I am going to go to a 9 bolt. I have a good 63 Tr6 head, but wanted to see if any later heads had better flow.

As for the morgo, I will just stick with the 650 set up

Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437281
05/29/12 7:47 pm
05/29/12 7:47 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,546
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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triton thrasher  Offline
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scotland
You can use a cracked head for years.

Also- the legend is that late replacement 8 stud heads were 9 stud castings drilled for 8 studs and were less prone to crack. Can any of our experts confirm or debunk?

These days, it's wise to consider how much resale value you're giving up when you "improve" a Pre-unit Triumph.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: triton thrasher] #437312
05/29/12 11:02 pm
05/29/12 11:02 pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,000
New Zealand
Excalibur Offline
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New Zealand
Morgo were known at one time for possibly not being bored true. Square to the barrel/crankcase flange I'm talking about. That causes side thrusting on the gudgeon pin circlips. I'd be carefully checking.

Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437320
05/30/12 12:38 am
05/30/12 12:38 am
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
The most practical head would be '69 -'70. You get UNC threads holding the rocker-boxes,and UNF threads holding the carbs.

I wouldn't worry about the intake ports being slightly too big for a 650.You'll still get good results with these heads,and they were recommended by Shenton in "Triumph Tuning".

I'm not a big fan of drop-on big bore kits.The cylinder walls are thin where they enter the crankcase.They work,but they always look fragile.
There is/was a kit made by Routt,that required opening up the crankcase and it had thicker walls.There may be others like that.Routt did also offer a drop-on kit.

You should be happy enough with the Morgo kit.The engine won't feel as revvy as a 650 with the same cams and carbs.Low and mid-range torque will feel good.

If you plan to make good use of the potential power increase,it could be wothwhile to crack-test and tuftride the crank.I'd balance the crank to 71% balance-factor.I think a '62 frame will still vibrate with any balance factor.

Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #437361
05/30/12 8:23 am
05/30/12 8:23 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,081
Cheshire UK
Phatt Bob Offline
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Cheshire UK
IMO Morgos are quite aesthetically pleasing as they follow the line of the cylinder head, but go easy on the centre head bolt. As Pete R says, the walls are thin, and even with the correct torque setting, after running you can still see a polished section near the centre bolt hole on the bore where it has belled out slightly .

Bob


Phatt Bob
'95 Daytona 1200
'98 Daytona 1200 dragbike
ex-850 T140 Caff Racer, 850 Triton, Morgo T120, Starfire and Pretend Daytona 500 owner
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437373
05/30/12 12:03 pm
05/30/12 12:03 pm
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,664
East Bethany New York
Dick Harris Offline
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East Bethany New York
As I recall,only the Thunderbird used the quieting ramps. Dick

Last edited by Dick Harris; 05/30/12 12:05 pm.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Dick Harris] #437378
05/30/12 1:03 pm
05/30/12 1:03 pm
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
S
Skip Kologiski Offline OP
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Skip Kologiski  Offline OP
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S
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6
St Pete Fla
my 62 is mostly stock. I think I will just keep it a 650 with a 9 bolt cyl and head. I have a nice 63 tr6 head that i can use. One thing I do want to add is a oil cooler. With the FL heat and traffic, anything will help.

Thanks for all the replys


Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437394
05/30/12 2:58 pm
05/30/12 2:58 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,662
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
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dave jones Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,662
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
John Healy said once that the earlier 9 stud unit 650s with smaller valves (up to 1965?) went over the ton a lot more easily than the later bikes. Maybe he will chime in on this point. My 67 TR6R is fitted with an earlier head with small valves and it certainly bombs along! It does still have the 67 1 3/16" carb and 67 cams.
Dave


Last edited by dave jones; 05/30/12 2:59 pm.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Dick Harris] #437417
05/30/12 5:17 pm
05/30/12 5:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,546
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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scotland
Originally Posted By: Dick Harris
As I recall,only the Thunderbird used the quieting ramps. Dick


I think late T110s had ramp cams. Maybe to make the Bonneville look faster!


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: Skip Kologiski] #437431
05/30/12 6:40 pm
05/30/12 6:40 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,990
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Maui Hawaii
Now, that's a cool ride. Duplex framed Triumphs are my all-time favorites. There's a lot of nonsense floating around how bad they vibrate and handle. Nonsense.
The absolute smoothest Triumph I ever rode was a '62 Bonnie. Smoother than my Commando at 70mph. It handled fine. As long as you don't chop throttle at the apex you shouldn't have any problems there.
The front brake is probably the best mod you can do to that bike. I've been doing that for many years on my bikes.
The 2 into 1 exhaust is stock for that year, but it does rob power. My T-bird ran much better with twin exhaust and sounded better also.
You can make a 9 bolt top end look very stock if you grind off the rocker box fins and re-profile the head fins. Almost no-one would even know.
If your bike vibrates too much, a simple mod to try is to replace the two front motor mount bolts with one long one and a spacer between the front down tubes. Sometimes this transforms a duplex bike.
Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: ] #437445
05/30/12 8:08 pm
05/30/12 8:08 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,546
scotland
triton thrasher Offline
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Posts: 7,546
scotland
Originally Posted By: Allan Gill
What's the difference?

I have seen some cams which come to a point ( almost ) like a quick duration of opening

I have also seen cams with a wide lobe, I'm guessing a longer duration. I am assuming that the cam which has the shorter duration is the hotter cam ?


The wider lobes are the go-faster cams. I don't think the eye can see the quietening ramp on a cam form. It's just the transition from base circle to lobe flank.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: best year Triumph 650 head & advantages of a morgo [Re: ] #437536
05/31/12 8:00 am
05/31/12 8:00 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,081
Cheshire UK
Phatt Bob Offline
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Phatt Bob  Offline
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Posts: 1,081
Cheshire UK
By way of comparison, here are some of the more popular Triumph cams, sorry about the quality.

Left to right:
Early E3275 standard cam, E3134 Bonneville cam, E4220 Thruxton, 71-3011 T140 inlet, Nourish Z cam.



Cheers

Bob


Phatt Bob
'95 Daytona 1200
'98 Daytona 1200 dragbike
ex-850 T140 Caff Racer, 850 Triton, Morgo T120, Starfire and Pretend Daytona 500 owner

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