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to weld feet on the center stand or not? #424338
03/15/12 2:23 pm
03/15/12 2:23 pm
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 169
Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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So, I've determined that my centerstand instability on my 1960 Dominator 99 (Slimline) is caused by the bike having Wideline shocks that are 1.25" longer shocks. The 1/2" bigger tires don't help matters. However, my question is whether the centerstand on an early slimline could do with some lengthening by welding 'feet' on the bottoms. What say you folks? Even with everything sorted on the bike, doesn't the centerstand want to be a bit taller in the inseam? It will only add stability, right? My bike is a 'rider' and if I was overly concerned with orginality, I'd have other things I need to worry about, like reverting from magneto back to coil ignition and the 12v conversion changed back to 6 (and no, not planning to do that).

Last edited by L.A.kevin; 03/15/12 2:25 pm.
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Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424396
03/15/12 11:32 pm
03/15/12 11:32 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 314
Concord Township, Ohio
57nortonmodel77 Offline
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Concord Township, Ohio
Hi Kevin,
make your bike fun & easy for you to use. As you said, you are not overly concerned with originality. On my Norton Nomad, the factory added feet on the centerstand from the factory. If the feet are welded with some forethought, the welds could be ground off at a later date if needed.
Just my opinion,
Skip


Magneto & Dynamo restorations & supplies

My Bikes
1950 Norton Model 7:
1952 Norton ES2
1957 Norton Model 77
1960 Norton Nomad 600cc
1961 Norton ES2 (slimline)
1964 Norton Atlas Scrambler
1972 Bultaco Alpina
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424398
03/15/12 11:58 pm
03/15/12 11:58 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,275
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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Wilfred Online content
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Kevin. I'm sure I'm missing something here but my slimline has 11 1/2 inch shocks and another inch and a half would probably make an inch of difference at the stand so why not just get the right shocks. Might even make a difference to the handling?....Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: Wilfred] #424430
03/16/12 3:06 am
03/16/12 3:06 am
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bromley uk
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norton bob Offline
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bromley uk
I welded feet onto my slimline to compensate for wear,but don't think it would be enough to cover the wrong shocks ,

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: Wilfred] #424528
03/16/12 3:10 pm
03/16/12 3:10 pm
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Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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Los Angeles, CA
Wilf and all... thanks for your advice. I'm trying to understand what difference the extra 1.5 inches would make on handling. Would it put more weight on the front end and make steering a bit heavier?

The only thing I'm reluctant to change the shocks over is the fact that the shocks look so nice and original. The whole bike has a patina that I love, and besides, nothing looks like the shrouded Girlings. I guess Hagons are close, but how is their quality these days?

Perhaps someone has some short original Girlings they want to swap?

Kevin

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424569
03/16/12 7:33 pm
03/16/12 7:33 pm
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Posts: 1,275
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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Wilfred Online content
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Happy with the Hagons on the T100 since 1995/30,000 miles. Mind you, I guess they're old hagons now. Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424642
03/17/12 9:09 am
03/17/12 9:09 am
Joined: Jun 2002
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Scotland
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kevin,

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
what difference the extra 1.5 inches would make on handling.

It steepens the effective head angle and makes the steering quicker. That's an old trick by racers in classes that don't allow major frame and other component modification. However, be careful as what translates into quicker steering for one rider becomes a increased tendency to tank-slappers for another. frown

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
The only thing I'm reluctant to change the shocks over is the fact that the shocks look so nice and original.
Perhaps someone has some short original Girlings they want to swap?

Gordon Bennett! shocked Original Girlings on the T160 I bought brand-new in 1977 were crap. "original Girlings" from the 1960's are now half-a-century old! You going to like the "patina" on your hospital bed, or you think your family is going to admire the "patina" on your coffin?

Hth.

Regards,

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: Stuart] #424701
03/17/12 5:44 pm
03/17/12 5:44 pm
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Posts: 169
Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Hi Kevin,
Gordon Bennett! shocked Original Girlings on the T160 I bought brand-new in 1977 were crap. "original Girlings" from the 1960's are now half-a-century old! You going to like the "patina" on your hospital bed, or you think your family is going to admire the "patina" on your coffin?

Hth.

Regards,


You're right stuart, perhaps I should chuck this old bike stuff and just stay in the house and stick to watch making. It's much safer. Thanks for your lecture advice.

Have a good day now and be safe yourself.

Kevin

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424710
03/17/12 6:11 pm
03/17/12 6:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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Haha. Old shockers won't smother you in your sleep! The worst that's like to happen is they"ll feel bouncy, in which case you'll probably remove them and try some other shocks.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424715
03/17/12 6:34 pm
03/17/12 6:34 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,463
Scotland
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kevin,

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
Thanks for your lecture advice.

Why so snotty? confused You asked a question on a public internet forum. I'm offering you my experience garnered from thirty-nine years owning and riding these old heaps classics. That experience specifically includes having my sphincters tested by the wayward behaviour of old heaps classics suspended by original Girlings.

Or is your next question going to be "Where can I get original (half-century-old) tyres?"?

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
perhaps I should chuck this old bike stuff

No. But, on the basis that you're probably a few years away from being a teenager, I am suggesting you exercise some of the common sense you should've acquired in those few years.

While other original parts on that bike are also around fifty years old, how many haven't been subjected to rebuilding and refurbishment? However, how many fifty-year-old Girlings have been rebuilt/refurbished? But they're subjected to stresses and strains in use, same as any other moving part on a motorcycle. I know of just one person who offers a commercial Girling rebuild service, and he's in GB.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: Stuart] #424774
03/18/12 12:01 am
03/18/12 12:01 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 169
Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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Stuart, I assure you that I've been riding bikes for years and have a good concern for safety. As to the snotiness of my reply; seriously, you can't see your comment about ending up my ending up in hospital because I want to keep as many original parts on my bike as being a bit of lecture? Thanks again for your concern about my safety. However, the shocks on my bike aren't going to kill me.

Your advice about steepening the steering head angle was something I hadn't considered, and it is appreciated.


Kevin

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424864
03/18/12 12:41 pm
03/18/12 12:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,255
Hamilton, Mass. USA
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Dave Comeau Offline

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My 68 Dunstall Atlas, with modified to 19" rear wheel, had a "factory" welded-on center stand extension. stock length shocks

Gee I'm usually the one one with testy replies....


dynodave
BSA 3 1961-1963
Ducati 3 1992-2002
Norton many 1951-1975
87 Serv-Equip 100HP MC brake dynamometer,
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #424943
03/18/12 6:57 pm
03/18/12 6:57 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,275
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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Wilfred Online content
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I tend to think that I wouldn't want to mess about with a steeper steering head angle on a featherbed. What has to be one of the sweetest frames seems to have worked as is for a lot of years and I've also ended up in the big building full of white coats after a good tank slapper. And, at my age, I'm not half the man I used to think I was.....just a thought. Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #428732
04/09/12 6:52 am
04/09/12 6:52 am
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 100
Pune, India
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anji mehra Offline
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Pune, India
Hi guys

I have the same problem on my 1961 Dommi 88. What is the length of the original shocks?

Take care
Anji
Pune, India

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: anji mehra] #428756
04/09/12 9:38 am
04/09/12 9:38 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,479
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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Originally Posted By: anj
What is the length of the original shocks?


11.9 inches according to a Girling catalogue from that period.

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.B.] #428930
04/10/12 4:26 am
04/10/12 4:26 am
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Posts: 169
Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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I replaced the shocks with a set of Emgo 11.9's and it sppears to have fixed the instability issues. The oversized rear tire is still an issue and I'll be fixing that soon.

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #429078
04/11/12 2:47 am
04/11/12 2:47 am
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Scotland
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kevin,

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
The oversized rear tire

confused Your previous thread on this you said the bike had a 4.10x19? If so, that isn't 'oversize' compared to the originally-recommended/fitted 3.50x19; they're pretty much the same overall diameter.

What I queried in that same thread was you said the front was a "325/85x19". Didn't make any sense to me but, if it's undersized compared to the originally-recommended/fitted 3.00x19, that'll be the source of the problem, not the "oversized rear" that isn't. A modern equivalent that'll match the original 3.00x19 for overall diameter would be a 3.60x19 or 90/90x19; that'll also be wider overall like the 4.10x19 on the rear.

Unless you want smaller overall diameters back and front than were originally fitted?

Hth.

Regards,

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: Stuart] #429088
04/11/12 3:38 am
04/11/12 3:38 am
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Posts: 169
Los Angeles, CA
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L.A.kevin Online content OP
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Thanks Stuart... I'll look into that. Much appreciated.

All I can say is the Cheng Shin tires sure look fatter than the tires I've seen on a freind's Atlas.

Kevin

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.kevin] #429624
04/14/12 2:16 pm
04/14/12 2:16 pm
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Scotland
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Stuart Online content
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Hi Kevin,

Originally Posted By: L.A.kevin
the Cheng Shin tires sure look fatter than the tires I've seen on a freind's Atlas.

From previous threads, aiui an Atlas was originally fitted with 3.25x19 front and 4.00x18 rear whereas your bike was originally fitted with 3.00x19 front and 3.50x19 rear. So it'd help to know what current actual sizes we're talking about.

Then, afaict 3.00x19 front certainly isn't available from any tyre maker I'd consider, and 3.50x19 rear is only available in Dunlop K70.

In Tom Sanders's "new tires for my 650SS" thread further down the Board, I recommended he use a 90/90x19 front and 100/90x19 rear, because these have very similar overall diameters to the original 3.00x19 front and 3.50x19 rear, and there are several choices of tyre makers in these sizes. For your question, whichever tyre maker you choose, you can expect actual overall diameters to be within two or three millimetres of those mandated by the likes of the DOT, ETRTO, etc., so having little effect on your question.

Only thing to bear in mind is that different tyre makers vary how close their actual overall widths are to those mandated by DOT, ETRTO, etc. Couple that with different tread profiles and you can have tyres of the same designation(s) that appear to be fatter/thinner but in fact won't have any effect on your particular question.

Finally, at the risk of telling you something you might know already, 4.10x19 is the Imperial equivalent of 100/90x19, while 3.60x19 is the Imperial equivalent of 90/90x19.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.B.] #430394
04/18/12 12:22 pm
04/18/12 12:22 pm
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Posts: 100
Pune, India
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anji mehra Offline
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Hi LAB

Thanx a ton. Will try & source & cut off the welded extension

Anji

Re: to weld feet on the center stand or not? [Re: L.A.B.] #432655
05/01/12 7:26 am
05/01/12 7:26 am
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Pune, India
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anji mehra Offline
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ThanksLAB
Unable to locate any shocks of this size here.will continue the search


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