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Triumph parts interchangeability #424725
03/17/12 7:16 pm
03/17/12 7:16 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 88
San Pedro CA
Lenos Offline OP
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Lenos  Offline OP
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San Pedro CA
As a general question what is the best resource for determining Triumph parts changeability/evolution? I've got a '58 pre-unit 650 engine and I know a lot of the later parts and 500 parts are the same or unchanged, at least for some while. Short of going through a lot of parts books, is there a good resource for such information out there?

Specifically I would like to know the chronology of the timing gears and crankshafts. I know the later timing gears are wider than what I have, but when did the change occur? Also, I know that I can use some of the unit cranks, but how late a crank can I use?

Thanks


'64 Atlas/'60 TR6 Triton
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Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424729
03/17/12 7:24 pm
03/17/12 7:24 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,742
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Online content

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Jon W. Whitley  Online Content

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I don't know of any resource that makes for quick reference. I just have to go to my library and start the cross-checking.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424744
03/17/12 8:56 pm
03/17/12 8:56 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Maui Hawaii
http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Twin-Restoration-Roy-Bacon/dp/0850456355

This book has been a most valuable resource for me over the years. It's out of print so the price isn't getting any cheaper. If it isn't in here, you'll need to ask specific questions to someone knowledgeable. There are a few folks here that know quite a bit about what you are asking, so ask away.


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424746
03/17/12 9:04 pm
03/17/12 9:04 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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scotland
Tony Heyward sold me a set of timing gears that he thought was for a Trident. They are wide, solid, a slide fit on the camshafts and work perfectly in my '55 T110 650.

I suspect that all later 650 and 750 timing gears will fit your bike.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424748
03/17/12 9:15 pm
03/17/12 9:15 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,024
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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Posts: 10,024
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote:
Short of going through a lot of parts books, is there a good resource for such information out there?


I would like to clone Mitch Klempf, short of that, you do what he did. Helped with a memory for details, and a Germanic dedication to this stuff, he has worked at this for some 40 years. With little sleep or time off and for what seems like 365 - 24/7. You then, as you learn it, you make notes in your parts books and your computer. And you learn something new every day... so it never ends!

The gears are interchangeable for the 500, 650, and Trident - both unit and non-unit. Because the factory was never perfect there is room for selective fit.


Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: John Healy] #424754
03/17/12 10:13 pm
03/17/12 10:13 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: John Healy
[quote]

The gears are interchangeable for the 500, 650, and Trident - both unit and non-unit. Because the factory was never perfect there is room for selective fit.


Hmm. Does that exclude the 750 twin?


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: triton thrasher] #424830
03/18/12 8:47 am
03/18/12 8:47 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,081
Cheshire UK
Phatt Bob Offline
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Phatt Bob  Offline
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Cheshire UK
Now now TT, you know very well it doesn't... grin

Bob


Phatt Bob
'95 Daytona 1200
'98 Daytona 1200 dragbike
ex-850 T140 Caff Racer, 850 Triton, Morgo T120, Starfire and Pretend Daytona 500 owner
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424836
03/18/12 10:04 am
03/18/12 10:04 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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scotland
Funny how the go-faster lads used to lighten 650 timing pinions. 750 ones look twice as heavy as 650 type and I'm sure they don't slow you down.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424901
03/18/12 4:12 pm
03/18/12 4:12 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,024
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,024
Boston, Massachusetts
IMHO lightened cam pinions are just another form of Mental Masturbation. There is so much that most of us don't understand about valve trains mass, stiffness and harmonics.

It's like push rods. You would think that they should be as light as possible, but stiffness, even if they are heavier, wins out over lightness hands down.

I admit all those holes seem to impress people. We even had the guts of the inside of a Trident timing cover displaying a very pretty set of drilled and lightened cam pinions on the cover of Vintage Bike. I didn't admire it for the tuner's talent, but viewed it as I would another form of Art.


Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #424904
03/18/12 4:18 pm
03/18/12 4:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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scotland
At least pushrods reciprocate, so there is logic behind lightening them, even if you can't lighten them significantly without losing stiffness. And even if heavier rods are better because they're stiffer.

Anybody who thought drilling holes in the pinions made the bike faster didn't think it through. All it can do is take the weight of the drilling swarf off the total bike weight!


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Lenos] #425078
03/19/12 1:27 pm
03/19/12 1:27 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,755
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Physics seems to dictate that rotating mass has certain properties.

As with crankshafts, logic seems to indicate that there are drawbacks AND benefits to lighter ones AND heavier ones...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: triton thrasher] #425098
03/19/12 4:13 pm
03/19/12 4:13 pm
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 82
Charlotte, NC
J
jsantoro Offline
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jsantoro  Offline
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J
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 82
Charlotte, NC
I have dumped the Domiracer, British Only and British Cycle Supply inventory lists to a searchable Access database. It helps a bunch since you can input a part number and see what it fits and who has it. Though I've not updated the price list in a while. Also converted the parts manual PDF's for my bikes and added tehm to the database so I can create shopping lists. If anyone is interested I can share, but it's too big for email.

<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: jsantoro] #425111
03/19/12 5:16 pm
03/19/12 5:16 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,742
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Online content

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I am interested.

What's is really interesting is the knowledge to be able to do such a thing. I have all the price lists and many manuals on the computer It would be interesting to try such a thing.



Quote:
Poster: jsantoro
Subject: Re: Triumph parts interchangeability

I have dumped the Domiracer, British Only and British Cycle Supply inventory lists to a searchable Access database. It helps a bunch since you can input a part number and see what it fits and who has it. Though I've not updated the price list in a while. Also converted the parts manual PDF's for my bikes and added tehm to the database so I can create shopping lists. If anyone is interested I can share, but it's too big for email.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: Jon W. Whitley] #425116
03/19/12 5:45 pm
03/19/12 5:45 pm
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 82
Charlotte, NC
J
jsantoro Offline
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jsantoro  Offline
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J
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 82
Charlotte, NC
I'd need to package it up for folks that done have MS Access. Give me a few days. Also need somewhere to put it, ( no funy remarks)
THe tedious part is coverting the PDF's to Excell, once it's in access it's not to bad. I thought about putting it up onlne but I'm not sure how the vendors would react seeing price comparisions online since they change so often. I use it for a rough guide on price.

Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: GrandPaul] #425117
03/19/12 5:57 pm
03/19/12 5:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,026
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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Posts: 7,026
scotland
Originally Posted By: GrandPaul
Physics seems to dictate that rotating mass has certain properties.

As with crankshafts, logic seems to indicate that there are drawbacks AND benefits to lighter ones AND heavier ones...


I think pinion weight contributes very slightly to flywheel effect. If you want less flywheel effect, lighten the flywheel.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: jsantoro] #425223
03/20/12 5:14 am
03/20/12 5:14 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,877
Gnashville
DavidP Online content

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DavidP  Online Content

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Gnashville
Nice work on the data base. No doubt it will instantly tell you that you can usually find everything on your list, just not from one vendor. I know I almost always end up paying at least two S&H charges any time I want more than four parts. mad

Sure looks as if it would make searching easier, though. The only catch I can see is that certain vendors list parts on the site which are not in stock, you order three items, only two show up, and you must order, and pay shipping from, somewhere else (usually the part on back order is the only one of the lot which you MUST have.)
Also, the prices on the site might not be current. Always best to call first.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Re: Triumph parts interchangeability [Re: DavidP] #425270
03/20/12 2:33 pm
03/20/12 2:33 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,755
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Posts: 6,755
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: DavidP
The only catch I can see is that certain vendors list parts on the site which are not in stock, you order three items, only two show up, and you must order, and pay shipping from, somewhere else (usually the part on back order is the only one of the lot which you MUST have.) Also, the prices on the site might not be current.


YAHTZEE!

I did a similar thing with Excel and kept it up for all of 6 months when I had several Triumph projects going at once; too much to try and keep up with multiple vendors, and not all are readily updateable.

Now I'm slowly working on importing, downloading and converting from various sources to create a comprehensive parts lists only for the bikes in my collection. Actual sources and prices won't be a part of it; I only need it to create parts lists for order inquiries.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"

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