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1940 BSA Silver Star #212424
12/01/07 2:04 pm
12/01/07 2:04 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Well, I've had this thing for a while now, might as well post it on here and maybe get some thoughts/opinions.

In its present state:
[Linked Image]

I purchased the bike from an Iranian immigrant in Florida who found most of the parts for the bike there and apparently found a very skilled panel beater/metal worker to repair/fabricate all of the sheetmetal. It is 95% complete and missing only the fork trees and linkage, exhaust, gauges, and little obscure bits like the toolbox light, controls and oil pressure button. I'm also trying to find a suitable piston.

Currently, I am considering simply rebuilding the motor and putting the bike together in its present state without extensive painting or plating. I just want to ride the thing.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
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Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212425
12/01/07 3:20 pm
12/01/07 3:20 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
That is cool! Have you been taking any other pictures of the bits before you started assembling them loosely? I love those pix where all the parts are laid out on shop floors or driveways, then contrast with the gorgeous gleaming finished bike.

P.S. where is that new BSA in your signature lineup? Oh, and thanx for the "tip". I don't get many of those.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212426
12/01/07 3:29 pm
12/01/07 3:29 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 243
Northern Virginia
V
VA Rebel Offline
BritBike Forum member
VA Rebel  Offline
BritBike Forum member
V

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 243
Northern Virginia
Go Alex!

Even if you didn't use the original sheet metal, that's a cool machine. Unless you've got deep pockets, skip the chrome & fancy paint. Build a a lightweight machine...pure function. Venolia should be able to make a piston.

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212427
12/01/07 7:43 pm
12/01/07 7:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
Alex , I dont know how you do it ! If that thing was a twin it just might , maybe , out COOL the plunger A-10 . I'm seein a lotta work and parts fabbin/scroungin in your future. Thanks for postin that , it makes me feel like my "modern" stuff should be able to put itself together . Really good to see the actual vintage stuff getting some much deserved attention these days , several being posted here recently .

-BONZO

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212428
12/01/07 8:24 pm
12/01/07 8:24 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 206
Northants
Clanger Offline
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Clanger  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 206
Northants
Lovely, not a million miles away from the design of my '38 B21.

It takes longer than you think to get all the necessary parts together, at least that's my experience....

Cheers Clanger

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212429
12/02/07 12:21 am
12/02/07 12:21 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,110
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,110
Stone Creek OH USA
Gee, I remember holding that tank in my hands at Daytona....I am SO jealous. eek You got a sweet one. They are fine looking machines when reasonably done....


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212430
12/02/07 3:31 pm
12/02/07 3:31 pm
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 104
San Mateo, CA (Sometimes NH)
erich Offline
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erich  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 104
San Mateo, CA (Sometimes NH)
I'd go with putting it back together and riding it. You can get decent results from a rattle can. I went to NAPA and had them put some GM DK Cloissone in rattle cans.

Not the best shot, but
[Linked Image]


-1970 Norton Commando
-1974 BMW R90/6
-1980 Moto Guzzi V50
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212431
12/02/07 3:51 pm
12/02/07 3:51 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
W
wade-o Offline
BritBike Forum member
wade-o  Offline
BritBike Forum member
W

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
What everyone says about restoration is true,But Alex thats a nice bike and it will never be as easy or cheaper than now. :bigt:

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212432
12/02/07 4:14 pm
12/02/07 4:14 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
W
wade-o Offline
BritBike Forum member
wade-o  Offline
BritBike Forum member
W

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
Alex,Now that i think about it, I may have a complete top end for your bike. My father was rebuilding a ZB goldie when it was discovered that the left case could not be repaired soon enough to go racing.
A freshly rebuilt xb motor was purchased for a donor left side case so I have a head, barrel. valves,piston,push rod tube.
If these are the right parts and you want to come get it and it solves your problems,it is yours. I would be glad to help.
Let me know.
Wade-O :p

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212433
12/03/07 10:09 pm
12/03/07 10:09 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Wade-o,

First-off, I certainly appreciate the offer. I don't have a B33 motor to compare, but at least the head and barrell are completely different. The M23 has a bore of 82 mm (same as an M20) as opposed to the 85 mm bore of the B33. This is not to say that a B33 barrell and piston couldn't be installed or maybe even just a B33 piston (and give me an extra 20 cc's - waahoo!). I need to measure the motor/barrell to determine the wrist pin location/deck height. When I get into that, I may be contacitng you for some measurements.

Cheers,


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212434
12/04/07 2:34 am
12/04/07 2:34 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
W
wade-o Offline
BritBike Forum member
wade-o  Offline
BritBike Forum member
W

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 311
nowhere
Yep busted. I thought that was a B33 derived machine.

Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212435
12/04/07 2:12 pm
12/04/07 2:12 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Well, in a way it is. It's got all M20 chassis and bottom end (including the crank), but a unique top end. So, in principle, it's an M33, but the head and barrell are different.

This would be it new:
[Linked Image]

Looks a lot like an M33.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star #212436
12/04/07 3:08 pm
12/04/07 3:08 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I love that - 73 pounds! (speedometer extra)

But what I really love is "all machines fitted with speedometer unless ordered otherwise"

Let me guess, the speedometer was about 3 shillings?


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: GrandPaul] #308138
04/14/10 8:10 pm
04/14/10 8:10 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Well, an update has been long overdue. Here it is:

Partly in order to clean up the "big pile in the corner of the living room" for my big birthday extravaganza and partly because it needed to be done, I have performed the first mock-up of my 1940 M23 Silver Star. I hesitate to call it a restoration since it will be rebuilt as a rider, but it will be mostly stock with a few nods toward useability/rideability and a few toward style and maybe not making this endeavor cost me a fortune (though I keep slipping on that).

[Linked Image]
This was a very educational experience. I got to fit some goodies that I've collected like the three badly worn fork links so I could at least get it upright. I managed to fit the repro 8" headlamp and the original brake lever....still missing a clutch lever - those things are very sought after. What became apparent pretty soon, though was that bot the front and rear fenders have a lot of problems. The front fender is an indian reproduction of an WM20 fender and it fits like a mumu on a bodybuilder....yea, it'll fit but it's just wrong. I've seen a few original WM20 pics and it appears that a lot of those fit that poorly as well. As for the rear, I think some panel beating will rectify the lack of clearance for both the upper and lower chainguards. Perhaps the toughest thing to deal with will be that the entire rear section of the frame is tweaked. That'll certainly take some doing.

[Linked Image]
I like this pic because it shows the unique for 1940 Lucas MT1130 taillight. This same unit was later used on the MG T-series in the 50's. The license plate is a repro that I'm just going to weld the light hole up on.

[Linked Image]
The other thing I'm working on is the crankshaft. I how have it disassembled and ready to receive a reconditioned big end and shorter rod. The shorter rod is necessary since original pistons are non-existent but since it's the same bore as the much more common M20, I can use a piston from one of those if I use a con rod from a 53-60 B31. The resultant deck height will give me 7.5:1 compression...about as much as anyone would want with an all-iron top end.

[Linked Image]
The original big-end bearing is between the flywheel halves...it's rusty, clapped out and the oil feed in it and the timing side flywheel were completely blocked. The new crankpin is sitting in the TS flywheel (right) which with new oversized rollers (available for Harleys) will be fitted to the new (used) rod. The race in the rod will be honed to fit the new rollers.

[Linked Image]
To say the flywheels were rough is an understatement. They looked like they had been beaten to within an inch of their lives. In addition to the beatings on the OD and faces, the mating faces for the crankpin nuts looked like they had been plowed with a cold chisel.

[Linked Image]
So the first step was to turn the OD and faces of the flywheels down to where they were round and flat again.

[Linked Image]
So they could be trued up, now with good surfaces.

[Linked Image]
The next step were the crankpin nut faces. The highly eccentric turning had to be done at very low speed and with a boring bar to get inside the drive shaft.

Next: salvaging the threads on the shaft ends and welding up the crankcases, cylinder and head.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #308139
04/14/10 8:17 pm
04/14/10 8:17 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,002
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,002
Central Virginia
Where's all that machining being done? Do you "know a guy" or are you doing that in the university shop late at night ... ?

Or even at HOME? I dream of the ability .....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Lannis] #308141
04/14/10 8:21 pm
04/14/10 8:21 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Mostly done at the machine shop at school. That's for the straightforward turning and milling. For the honing, I "know a guy".


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #308381
04/16/10 5:41 am
04/16/10 5:41 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,121
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Very cool project. I'd love to have a true "vintage" bike like a Speed Twin...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #416130
01/30/12 4:25 pm
01/30/12 4:25 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Wow...I'm just now seeing that it's been almost two years since I posted. Progress has been slow as other projects have gotten in the way, but

[Linked Image]
Tank is plated and painted as are the rims (not shown)paint by Don Roe

[Linked Image]
The crank is assembled and trued with a reconditioned big end bearing and short rod for use with M20 piston. I don't have a pic of the modified piston but I found that it needs to be clearanced for the flywheels, as it is a very tall piston. No problem, a bit of bandsaw work and sanding did the trick.

[Linked Image]
The sump plate area was welded up with a new plate to replace multiple previous botched repairs. The welding was done by Tom at Carolina Custom Powdercoat.

[Linked Image]
One of the bosses had also been broken off on the other crankcase half so Tom built up some aluminum.

[Linked Image]
After machining the sump region. Just a little bit of sanding from here.

[Linked Image]
And a mockup of the finished cases with bored and painted barrel and head.

Next: installing the crankshaft, making valve guides (they are a very odd size), collecting all of the fasteners I can find and taking them to be cad plated, building the wheels and straightening the frame. Still no front mudguard...



A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #416148
01/30/12 5:51 pm
01/30/12 5:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,110
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Offline

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Offline

BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,110
Stone Creek OH USA
Alex sez:

"Still no front mudguard..."

Did Chad not give you that mudguard, or wrong one?



Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #416155
01/30/12 6:58 pm
01/30/12 6:58 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
I forgot to grab it when I was at his house. Still, it's going to need a little bit of metalwork to fit and a lot to make it into that valanced fender...I guess I should have clarified by saying "not done yet"


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #419497
02/19/12 4:26 am
02/19/12 4:26 am
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
OK, more ...errr...progress?

The M20 piston, originally tall with a straight skirt is now clearanced for the shorter rod now looks something more like a normal piston:
[Linked Image]

The cases and the crank now being done, I wanted to start on the ancillary stuff like cams and lifters. The cams were dirty but it turns out that what only looked like filth were actually deep corrosion pits:
[Linked Image]

The lifters were the same...pretty much trash. Discouraged, I moved on to the gearbox. I already knew that the actuating lever boss was broken:
[Linked Image]

but I had a spare wartime box in pretty good condition that I could use the outer cover from. The boss is a little different on the later box, but I can make it work. Then, once I'd opened the box up, I found a bit of a crack in the inner cover, which you can see running almost vertical through the whole inner cover:
[Linked Image]

The cover was, in fact, broken all the way through and had been repaired by attaching a thin steel plate with multiple rivets. Inside the box, things weren't much better. Severely worn dogs and missing shims (Related??) and then, I found a crack in the main case:
[Linked Image]

Surely, things will can only get better from here...


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #419502
02/19/12 5:24 am
02/19/12 5:24 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,110
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Offline
BritBike Forum member
R Moulding  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,110
Christchurch NZ

You are a very brave man!!

Cool project im looking forward to more. All the best with it.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #419593
02/19/12 5:22 pm
02/19/12 5:22 pm
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,851
ohio
shel Offline
BritBike Forum member
shel  Offline
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,851
ohio
She must have lived a very hard life.


When given the choice between two evils I picked the one I haven't tried before
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #419605
02/19/12 6:26 pm
02/19/12 6:26 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,800
Comox BC Canada
G
Gordo in Comox Offline
BritBike Forum member
Gordo in Comox  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,800
Comox BC Canada
Alex: As bad as it looks I would think modern welding can sort out the cracks.

Do other/later cams and lifters fit that engine?

Gordo


Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
Re: 1940 BSA Silver Star [Re: Alex] #419866
02/20/12 9:24 pm
02/20/12 9:24 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Alex Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Alex  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,813
Seattle
Gordo, they are M20/B33 cams. I was fortunate enough to have found that a very rough M20 bottom end donated by a friend has good cams and lifters. And yes, welding will have to sort the some things, but I think I will use most of a WD M20 box that is in good shape for a replacement. Most things are the same except for the lack of a groove for the rubber boot on the clutch actuator boss.

Then, I thought I had found a casting that didn't need some sort of repair: The rocker box. Cleaned up and bead blasted, it sure is looking nice:
[Linked Image]

But the cleanup and bead blasting has revealed that my excitement was premature:
[Linked Image]

That will certainly have to be welded. A unique M23 casting...they're hard to come by.

I have visions of the bike at one point having a utility chair bolted to it used to haul logs and or ailing livestock in rural Iran...

Last edited by Alex; 02/20/12 9:28 pm.

A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
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