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Camshaft Bushes #324424
07/23/10 5:45 pm
07/23/10 5:45 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 111
Kent , England
T
Tiger t Offline OP
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Tiger t  Offline OP
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T
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 111
Kent , England
I will be fitting new camshaft bushes ( 1965 T120 ). Will they need to be line reamed or is it a case of removal/refitting. If they are to be line reamed, what is the procedure, as both halves have different size bores.

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Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #324433
07/23/10 7:06 pm
07/23/10 7:06 pm
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 451
redondo beach, ca
Bob G Offline
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Bob G  Offline
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Posts: 451
redondo beach, ca
I believe Triumph made a factory tool for reaming new cam bushs.
They used one bush as a guide while the other one was being reamed.
I see a similar tool is still offered for sell. Just Google "Triumph cam bushing reamer"


Bob Gregor
Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #324457
07/23/10 10:39 pm
07/23/10 10:39 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
P
Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
When you fit them,the bore will close up by an amount roughly equal to twice the interference-fit.So if the interference-fit is 0.001",the ID of the bush will close 0.002"

For the timing side,I use an expanding reamer with a pilot screwed on the end.The pilot locates into the drive-side bush.The timing-side bush is easy to get right.

If the drive-side bushes are too tight after you fit them,you'll need a special reamer to get the size you want;it will be guided in the timing-side bush.

Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #324462
07/23/10 11:42 pm
07/23/10 11:42 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
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John Healy Offline

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John Healy  Offline

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
The key to successful installation of camshaft bushing starts before you install them.

First you must make sure the timing side bushings are not too long. If they are too long the camshaft will not have the correct end play in the bush of .013" to .020". Most after market timing side camshaft bushings available today are too long.

Second you must make sure that the bushing i.d. allows you to place the bushing on the camshaft before you install it leaving .0005" to .002" clearance. This means you only have to take out a few thousandths after it is pressed into the case. As Pete mentioned, the proper sintered bronze bushing will compress almost as much as the amount of press in the crankcase. Most after market bushings are NOT sized properly and require work before they are installed. The factory ones you could take out of the bag and install directly.

Finally it is important to make sure the bushings are installed so they are square in the case. To do this you need to make a tool that supports the bushing as you install it.

With only a couple of thousandths required to finish size the installed bushing all you need to do is pass a 7/8" ball through the bushing a few times to get the proper clearance. This is how TriCor taught their dealers to do the job at the Service School.

The ball will only properly size the sintered bushings and then only if they are pre-sized. If you choose to use solid bronze bushings the ball will not work. You will also need to increase the clearance from .0005" to .002" to .0015" to .002"!! If you don't the, cam will have a tendency seize in the bushing causing the bushing to spin in the case. There is no practical reason to use solid bronze bushings especially because of the nature of sintered bronze being self healing. Any heat generated by the bearing starting to bind up brings the oil out of the pores of the sintered bearing and adds additional lubrication helping prevent a seizure.

With the timing side installed all you need is a 13/16" reamer and a drill bushing sized to slide into the timing side bushing to ream the timing side bushings (bushing is .8735" o.d. by .626" i.d. by 1 5/8" long). A 13/16" hand reamer has a 5/8" shaft and slips right into the bushing.

We have supplied these to dealers in the form of a kit or individually for some 30 years.

Last edited by John Healy; 07/23/10 11:43 pm.

Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #416967
02/04/12 7:32 pm
02/04/12 7:32 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
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db133  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Hi

Ref: First you must make sure the timing side bushings are not too long. If they are too long the camshaft will not have the correct end play in the bush of .013" to .020". Most after market timing side camshaft bushings available today are too long.

I am going to have a go at this. The reamer kit has now arrived.


I am in no hurry but I do want to do a propper job. I have to obtain some more tools support drifts for starters.....but I have a question John.....
I understand .013 to .020 end play is required. What is the correct way to the process of obtaining the correct end play. Clamp it all up measure cam and the cases ? Any tips......???

In any event kind regards.


Last edited by db133; 02/04/12 7:36 pm.
Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: db133] #417003
02/04/12 10:27 pm
02/04/12 10:27 pm
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
Pete R - R.I.P.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,549
Vic. Australia
You don't really need 0.013" end play. 0.005" is enough,and even a little less is probably OK.
The length depends on the camshaft and camwheel.Fit the camwheel onto your cam,and tighten it up.You can measure from the camwheel face to the shoulder on the camshaft.The bush should be a little shorter than that distance.

Just face enough off the smaller end of the bush to give it some clearance.Check it again when you finally fit the cams in.You can always mill a bit more off the bush later,if necessary.

35 ft-lbs torque on the cam nut should be enough.I've heard of people using 80 ft-lbs,which could crush the camwheel on a little further and reduce the clearance.

Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #417015
02/04/12 11:26 pm
02/04/12 11:26 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

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John Healy  Offline

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
I assume you have limited shop equipment... a lathe would be handy if you needed to shorten the bushing.

Seeing that your timing side bushings are able to be slid onto the camshaft put the bush on the cam backwards. Large diameter end toward the cam wheel. Install the cam wheel and snug up the retaining nut. Use a feeler gage between the back of the cam wheel and the face of the bushing to check clearance. Adjust as necessary as Pete recommended - material off the small diameter end. Then install...


Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #417075
02/05/12 10:15 am
02/05/12 10:15 am
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Hi
Ref: limited shop equipment

Yes very limited, but as I state I'm in no hurry and what I can not do I can get someone to do. Thats ok I can live with that whats more important is that its done right.

Am I right in thinking its called broaching when the ball is passed throught the bush ?

Thanks for input etc (a lot to take in)

Kind regards for a cold UK.

Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: John Healy] #417132
02/05/12 4:29 pm
02/05/12 4:29 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
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db133  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Originally Posted By: John Healy
I assume you have limited shop equipment... a lathe would be handy if you needed to shorten the bushing.

Seeing that your timing side bushings are able to be slid onto the camshaft put the bush on the cam backwards. Large diameter end toward the cam wheel. Install the cam wheel and snug up the retaining nut. Use a feeler gage between the back of the cam wheel and the face of the bushing to check clearance. Adjust as necessary as Pete recommended - material off the small diameter end. Then install...


With the retaining nut just snug, I have 21 thou on one cam and 18 on the other between back of cam wheel and the face of bush.

I think check this again after a retighten of the nut.

(had a tighten and a wack now 10 thou.)

Last edited by db133; 02/12/12 4:56 pm.
Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #417145
02/05/12 5:17 pm
02/05/12 5:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Geoff Patrick Offline
Life member
Geoff Patrick  Offline
Life member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Hey Tiger,

I would recommend measuring your new bushings before doing anything. Several months ago I recieved brand new camshaft bushings from a major supplier where the TS bushing ID's were already .0042" larger than the factory spec of .8730-.8735" at the flanged end.

I ended up having my machinist fab the TS bushings from scratch.

Cheers!

gp


Watch "American Triumph" at www.americantriumph.tv
Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #417184
02/05/12 8:01 pm
02/05/12 8:01 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline

BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Offline

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,084
Boston, Massachusetts
gp:

.874" to .875", but we get your point.

Typically, because the i.d. closes up when installed, you will find the i.d. to be plus .002", or more, before installation. All this depends upon the o.d. as the pre-fit o.d. will vary also. It is a pressing, not turned from bar.

In the end you are looking for .0005" (don't use this figure if you are using solid bushings- you need .0015 to .002 for these!!) to .002". The final clearance will have something to do with the cam used and not all of these are to Triumph specs.

There are at least three people making these, maybe more, in the original pressed sintered bronze condition. The pre-fit i.d. varies with each as does the o.d. and while some will slide over the cam as supplied others will need to be pre-machined before they are offered.

For those so inclined there are ones made from bar stock, not as good IMHO, but that is another posting. PM (Black Diamond), LF Harris, and others offer these.
John


Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #417186
02/05/12 8:09 pm
02/05/12 8:09 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Yes I will do as you state its tricky to get it right. It can be done though.........I put the cam wheels in the oven and cams and bushes in the freezer. That worked quite well. I just want to confirm the wheels/pinions are right home on the cams. Hope it tightens up a little........I do not think shims are an option.

Like you state maybe bushes are crap (hope not)....

Re: Camshaft Bushes [Re: Tiger t] #418897
02/15/12 8:33 pm
02/15/12 8:33 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Ref:
I assume you have limited shop equipment... a lathe would be handy if you needed to shorten the bushing.

Yes very handy, when I was a young lad of 16 I did some lathe work on a City & Guilds Motor Vehicle & Mechanics course Part 1.

So allways on the look out for a lathe, have to be a small one. Or find some one who has one......tc

Last edited by db133; 02/15/12 8:34 pm.

Moderated by  John Healy 


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