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BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question #418265
02/12/12 7:30 pm
02/12/12 7:30 pm
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Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Well, I got it.



The bike it's going on is a '71 Lightning. One of the best riding Brits I own, but never cared for the little US tank and the gaudy tin center stying strip. But this bike is way too good to let sit. The conical front brake works a treat, and I did a bunch of work on it many years ago. So with the new Home Market tank I figure it will get the attention it deserves.

Now I've got to figure out how to restore/paint it. Unfortunately, it is the Triumph version, with no mounting lugs in the tank for emblem screws. And the OIF BSA metal badge doesn't really fit the contour of the tank.

Questions: Is there a different metal BSA emblem for the larger Home Market tank? I think the Home Market tanks used the metal emblem like this bike (not mine).....



Or better yet figure out how to duplicate this one...



This one has to be custom, right? confused It sure is purdy!!

Or I suppose I could just use a decal. Or make it a custom paint job. I always wanted a tank painted in the British flag scheme, but never got around to it. LOTS of work to do it in paint. A wrap might work though. Has anyone seen or know of someone who does wraps for motorcycle tanks?

I did talk to a guy about it, and he is considering it for a wrap, but he thinks it will be hard.

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

Last edited by Jim Hultman; 02/12/12 7:51 pm.
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Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418277
02/12/12 8:14 pm
02/12/12 8:14 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,479
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
Questions: Is there a different metal BSA emblem for the larger Home Market tank? I think the Home Market tanks used the metal emblem like this bike (not mine).....


According to the A65 parts list for 1971, the BSA Home and general export A65T & L fuel tanks also had "BSA" transfers/decals that year.

(60-3269)


http://www.britishspares.com/138.php

http://transgarp.dyndns.org/motorcycle/pdf/Magasin/TRIStock.pdf
Quote:
60-3269 TRANSFER - `BSA` TANK - A65 OIF `71

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: L.A.B.] #418290
02/12/12 10:19 pm
02/12/12 10:19 pm
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Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
According to the A65 parts list for 1971, the BSA Home and general export A65T & L fuel tanks also had "BSA" transfers/decals that year.

Interesting. I like the metal badges I have from the small tank, but they don't fit perfectly to the contour of the large tank. They rock just a bit. You could use them, but there would be a slight gap when installed. That might just be the way they were, and I doubt there was a different metal badge for the large tank.

The big issue there would be welding in the lugs. I'm not a good enough welder to do that, and any risk of ruining the tank would be unacceptable. I've been looking for a decent one of these for a long time, and they are HARD to find.

Anyone have any hints on the wrap idea? I've seen tanks painted as the British flag, and they are stunning. I just don't have the motivation to do it myself right now. Don, would you be interested? You can email me off list if you're thinking about it.

I still think a wrap might work.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418293
02/12/12 10:37 pm
02/12/12 10:37 pm
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Gnashville
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Look at Ger's '71 T-Bolt. It appears to have the metal badges.
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-YGQUO8CU.jpg

Good score on the tank! I missed out on a '79 Triumph tank which only brought $103. Don't know if that would fit, though. I think Triumph made subtle changes to the wet frame.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: DavidP] #418298
02/12/12 10:48 pm
02/12/12 10:48 pm
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newcastle australia
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Jim,
I have been through this exercise.
The badges from the small tank do fit OK.
Make blind threaded top hat section inserts from brass and solder into tank.
Thread is 2BA, from memory.

Trev.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: DavidP] #418300
02/12/12 10:52 pm
02/12/12 10:52 pm
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Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
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Originally Posted By: DavidP
Look at Ger's '71 T-Bolt. It appears to have the metal badges.


That tank is from a 1977-on T140. Metal Triumph/BSA badges were introduced for 1972 on the Home & Gen. export tanks. The cross-brace was also added '72-on.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 02/12/12 11:00 pm.
Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: DavidP] #418301
02/12/12 10:54 pm
02/12/12 10:54 pm
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Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: DavidP
Look at Ger's '71 T-Bolt. It appears to have the metal badges.

Yeah, that's the one. I might be tempted to go back to stock if I could be sure of getting the lugs properly welded in to secure the metal badges.

Originally Posted By: DavidP
Don't know if that would fit, though. I think Triumph made subtle changes to the wet frame.

Hope not! Mine is clearly a Triumph tank, and I think it's the original paint for a TR6C. At least that's the color they used on the TR6C in '70. As for other changes between the Triumph and BSA wet frames, of course the motors mount differently. Interestingly enough, a BSA motor will fit in a Triumph wet frame, but one of the lower motor mounts won't line up. But I've seen them run that way.

I have always assumed the tanks were the same except for the width between the badge mounting lungs, but don't know that for sure. Until now I didn't know they made a tank without any badge mounting lugs at all.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: L.A.B.] #418302
02/12/12 10:59 pm
02/12/12 10:59 pm
Joined: Aug 2008
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Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Ger's '71 T-Bolt tank is from a 1977-on T140.

Huh?

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: trevinoz] #418303
02/12/12 11:01 pm
02/12/12 11:01 pm
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Minnesota, US
Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: trevinoz
Jim,
I have been through this exercise.
The badges from the small tank do fit OK.
Make blind threaded top hat section inserts from brass and solder into tank.
Thread is 2BA, from memory.

Trev.


Solder in Brass tophats, huh? That I could do.

You wouldn't happen to have any useful measurements handy, would you? To locate the lugs?

Jim

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418304
02/12/12 11:10 pm
02/12/12 11:10 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
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L.A.B. Online content
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Originally Posted By: Jim Hultman
Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Ger's '71 T-Bolt tank is from a 1977-on T140.

Huh?


There were (at least) four types of "Home and Gen/Ex" 4 (Imp.) gallon tanks that I know of (there could be more?).

1. The '71 type, with the raised central top seam (covered by chrome styling strips and bung surround), no badge lugs and no bracing strap.[Edit](The Home Gen/Ex. tank was introduced on the Triumph 650s mid-season, late '71 tanks may have had the brace?)

2. '72-'73 type with central top seam with badge lugs and bracing strap.

3. T140 type '73 - '76 = brace, no central top seam.

4. T140, '77 on, brace, no top seam, both fuel taps/petcocks moved approximately 4" - 5" further forward from the original position at the rear of the tank.

Last edited by L.A.B.; 02/12/12 11:38 pm.
Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418311
02/12/12 11:45 pm
02/12/12 11:45 pm
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You might check with an auto body shop and see what they have in a double sided tape . I've done that on a few tanks with great results . I had a set of metal badges on an H-D tank that actually came in a kit with this tape .

FWIW-BONZO

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: L.A.B.] #418313
02/12/12 11:56 pm
02/12/12 11:56 pm
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Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
There were (at least) four types of "Home and Gen/Ex" 4 (Imp.) gallon tanks that I know of (there could be more?).

Oh. Thanks. I don't know much about the wet frames. I only have this '71 and a '72 lightning rolling basket. Most of my stuff is dry frame.

However, the '71 is a pretty decent bike and I've always looked forward to getting it back on the road with a proper tank!

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: BONZO R.I.P.] #418316
02/13/12 12:00 am
02/13/12 12:00 am
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Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BONZO
....double sided tape. I had a set of metal badges on an H-D tank that actually came in a kit with this tape.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me on a Harley. But somehow it seems slightly sacrilegious on a Brit Bike!! laughing

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: L.A.B.] #418558
02/14/12 6:10 am
02/14/12 6:10 am
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Originally Posted By: L.A.B.

4. T140, '77 on, brace, no top seam, both fuel taps/petcocks moved approximately 4" - 5" further forward from the original position at the rear of the tank.

Great to know. That's the tank for me. I bet they moved the petcocks forward to clear the MkII Amals. I need the same position to clear my Mikunis.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: DavidP] #418571
02/14/12 8:38 am
02/14/12 8:38 am
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Originally Posted By: DavidP
I bet they moved the petcocks forward to clear the MkII Amals.


That may have been the intention, but they didn't fit MkII Amals until mid-'78 season (1978 T140E).

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418579
02/14/12 10:41 am
02/14/12 10:41 am
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Not being PEDANTIC or anything , but I think the tank as is has Ten Times the Class of a respray.Being ' period ' , and it would
be being PEDANTIC to respray it and put B S A on it .

Id waste the money on the ORIGINAL Tank , Green & White if Two Tone .Or stick some Pre War badges on That One , if you like being awkward .

Id regard desecrateing the Triumph Tank as imature , You know the blankety bikes Still a B S A even with it on , and cant see the badges from the seat, anyway . WHO are you trying to Impress ? ? ?

If youve made the thing bulletproof in the bottom end , we might forgive you for stuffing the tank , Id just get a big ugly old
B S A one thats dented but sound , cut the tunnel out and fit one to suit the frame, and CHROME it , like a B S A 72 R III or half
the rest .

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418581
02/14/12 10:50 am
02/14/12 10:50 am
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Quote:
Look at Ger's '71 T-Bolt. It appears to have the metal badges.


Quote:
That tank is from a 1977-on T140. Metal Triumph/BSA badges were introduced for 1972


That tank is not from a 1977-on T140.
That tank is the original tank which the factory installed on that bike in 1971.

The badges are metal castings, screwed onto it in 1971. The tank had a respray twice in its lifetime.


Ger B

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418583
02/14/12 11:15 am
02/14/12 11:15 am
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The one im whineing about is the ' antique ' original gold / blak Triumph one .
Theres a 68 ?? Teardrop Lightning one , about the same as the
Chrome Export R III Teardrop one . A cheap knocked about one if
solid , would be worth going to a bit of bother with , perhaps .

Not that the others dont look to bad .Most think the unique BSA slimline oil tube tanks are worth getting excited about. A bloke in NZ with both , would likely swap the breadbox for your slimline , if youre desperate . Yell .

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Ger B] #418584
02/14/12 11:33 am
02/14/12 11:33 am
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Quote:
That tank is the original tank which the factory installed on that bike in 1971.


You have me wondering now Ger.
The first seamless OIF tank I ever saw was at least mid 1974, possibly even a few months later. It would have been on a 1973 model 750 Tiger.

That was with the Triumphs but I saw 4 brand new A65T bikes on the showroom floor in April 1974. I was tempted to buy one but naturally anything BSA was difficult to sell by then. I would place good money on them having trim work down the middle of the tank.
I bought a 1972 breadbox T120V instead, and still paid more than I would have for the new BSA. It had the Gold/White tank with brace and metal badges.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Ger B] #418587
02/14/12 11:49 am
02/14/12 11:49 am
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Originally Posted By: Ger
That tank is not from a 1977-on T140.
That tank is the original tank which the factory installed on that bike in 1971.


You bought that bike new in 1971 did you?

I don't see how it could be the original tank. It doesn't have the raised top seam, and the fuel taps/petcocks were not fitted in that position until 1977.


1971 parts list:




Even the screws holding your BSA tank badge are not in the normal position. They appear to be spaced at the distance and odd heights suitable for the Triumph tank badge. The only A65 "BSA" tank badge was part 60-2568 which was fitted to the 1972 model Home & Gen./Ex tank as well as the 1971-'72 export tank.

60-2568

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bsa+60-...348&bih=682

Last edited by L.A.B.; 02/14/12 12:29 pm.
Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418589
02/14/12 12:29 pm
02/14/12 12:29 pm
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I just noticed the screw distance in Ger's tank. Yes, the BSA holes were much closer together.

I would be using shoe goo to hold dummy screws in place and the badges onto the tank.


This bike is far from original but it is a 1972 model and shows all we have been mentioning.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Pre Unit] #418593
02/14/12 12:57 pm
02/14/12 12:57 pm
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Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Pre Unit
The one im whineing about is the ' antique ' original gold / blak Triumph one .

Not that the others dont look to bad .Most think the unique BSA slimline oil tube tanks are worth getting excited about. A bloke in NZ with both , would likely swap the breadbox for your slimline , if youre desperate . Yell .

Sorry about threatening to desecrate the Triumph tank with BSA emblems. eek Unfortunately, if you saw the tank close up, you'd agree it's not usable in it's present condition. The green (gold?) paint Triumph used at least in 1970 and '71 was not very durable and this one simply is not restorable. The paint was some sort of metallic that got all crusty and degraded pretty bad. I've had a couple like this and there is nothing for it but to respray it. Sorry.

As for the trade, I'd be happy to swap the slim line for the breadbox, but I suspect shipping would be outrageous on these.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: L.A.B.] #418599
02/14/12 1:36 pm
02/14/12 1:36 pm
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Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
Even the screws holding your BSA tank badge are not in the normal position. They appear to be spaced at the distance and odd heights suitable for the Triumph tank badge. The only A65 "BSA" tank badge was part 60-2568 which was fitted to the 1972 model Home & Gen./Ex tank as well as the 1971-'72 export tank.

60-2568

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bsa+60-...348&bih=682

Now this is interesting. The screws holding on Ger's badges are different.



Mine are like the badge pics, much closer together.

Now I'm completely confused!!

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Jim Hultman] #418603
02/14/12 1:52 pm
02/14/12 1:52 pm
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The BSAOC NSW has some good brochures on their site.





I would have thought these could be bent or twisted to fit any tank. The ones I saw here were about $30 a pair. No doubt they would be cheaper with a little searching about.

I bought a MkII Spitfire with a breadbox fitted and lots of bog .
I sold it to a friend that had a '71 Lightning and I think he had few problems fitting it.

Re: BSA/Triumph Home market OIF tank question [Re: Kevin (NZ).] #418606
02/14/12 2:09 pm
02/14/12 2:09 pm
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Jim Hultman Offline OP
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Not to get picky here, but there seems to be a big difference in the location of the badge on these two versions.

Just another detail to consider.

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