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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #413351
01/14/12 4:58 pm
01/14/12 4:58 pm
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North Coast, BC, Canada
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Gary at SRM has added a little more info to the mix.

"Our 750 kits are 6mm shorter than standard cylinders"
"Approx from top of gudgeon pin to edge of piston 19mm"
"crown shape and sizes are pretty much same as the BSA B44 piston"

Considering the above, I've used the B44 piston specs from Ed V. for the SRM Big Bore pistons, and also made the change to the Block Height spec for the SRM Big Bore cylinder.

In regards to full height Big Bore cylinders, "Long cylinders for the strokers not currently in production and we do not have stocks".

Long stroke billet cranks are also not currently available from SRM, "proving difficult to find suitable company that can make them".



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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #413419
01/15/12 2:34 am
01/15/12 2:34 am
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Updated again to add Nourish 90mm Crank.


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #414896
01/23/12 9:39 pm
01/23/12 9:39 pm
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Another update (see link in first post).

The chart has expanded to include input information and formulas to help determine what the resulting compression ratio will be.

It's impressive how much the CR can be altered by varying the thickness of the head gasket, or having the deck height of the piston below the deck of the cylinder at TDC.

I've used 70cc as combustion chamber volume for a standard A65 head. Not terribly exact but in the ball park, and it allowed the formula to do some work.

Anybody have a reasonably close estimate for a standard B44's combustion chamber volume?


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: ] #414908
01/23/12 10:21 pm
01/23/12 10:21 pm
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Originally Posted by 1968BSA
What is the best or simplest method of finding the combustion chamber volume in a cylinder?


Now that's a tough question.

If you are looking at the cylinder head, here's a straight forward way to find it.
How to CC your combustion chamber


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #414910
01/23/12 10:27 pm
01/23/12 10:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Two Alpha
Originally Posted by 1968BSA
What is the best or simplest method of finding the combustion chamber volume in a cylinder?


Now that's a tough question.

If you are looking at the cylinder head, here's a straight forward way to find it.
How to CC your combustion chamber


That looks mad.

Put the piston at TDC and use a burette to measure how much fluid it takes to fill to half way up the spark plug hole.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #414922
01/23/12 11:16 pm
01/23/12 11:16 pm
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Compression ratio = (swept volume + combustion chamber volume)/combustion chamber volume

Swept volume is calculated from bore and stroke, using pi.r squared.h.

Combustion chamber volume is measured with burette as above.




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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #414964
01/24/12 2:55 am
01/24/12 2:55 am
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If you know the standard compression ratio, bore and stroke you can calculate the standard combustion chamber volume using TTs formula.
You can then amend the chamber volume for changes such as head shaving, extra thick head gasket thicknesses etc and then recalculate the compression ratio again using TTs formula.
No need to go into a cold workshop---you can do all the calculations in the warm!
HTH

Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Tridentman] #414986
01/24/12 4:03 am
01/24/12 4:03 am
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Aren't you going to run into difficulties trying to calculate the compression ratio when using a B44 piston with an A65 head using that method?

Seems to me that I am still going to need the actual combustion chamber volume (not the fully compressed volume) for a standard B44 head.


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #414989
01/24/12 4:15 am
01/24/12 4:15 am
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The easy and accurate way to measure chamber volume and compression ratio is to use an acrylic plate with a small hole, grease for sealing and a burrette. Grease the valve seats and head gasket area, put on the plate and fill the chamber from the burrette. For the piston, move the piston down a known amount, seal the rings with grease, put on the plate and fill the cylinder from the burrette. Subtract the cylinder area * piston distance below TDC from this measurement and then add this (negative number) to the chamber volume. The final volume plus the piston swept volume divided by the final volume is the compression ratio.

Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: DMadigan] #415001
01/24/12 5:57 am
01/24/12 5:57 am
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Nicely explained DMadigan.

The formula I used to determine static compression ratio, in the last column of the chart, includes all the pieces that make up the whole.

Just for laughs, here's what the formula for each of those cells looks like, this one's for row 10 of the Static Compression Ratio column.

=(0.00314159265*C10/2*C10/2*E10+0.00314159265*C10/2*C10/2*P10+0.00314159265*S10*T10/2*T10/2+U10+V10) /(0.00314159265*C10/2*C10/2*P10+0.00314159265*S10*T10/2*T10/2+U10+V10)

C = Bore
E = Stroke
P = Deck Height (Piston deck below cylinder deck is expressed as a positive number)
S = Head gasket compressed thickness
T = Head gasket bore
U = Piston top volume (Dome is expressed as a negative number)
V = Combustion chamber volume


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Tridentman] #415032
01/24/12 12:45 pm
01/24/12 12:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Tridentman
If you know the standard compression ratio, bore and stroke you can calculate the standard combustion chamber volume using TTs formula.
You can then amend the chamber volume for changes such as head shaving, extra thick head gasket thicknesses etc and then recalculate the compression ratio again using TTs formula.
No need to go into a cold workshop---you can do all the calculations in the warm!
HTH


It's not really my formula. It's simple measurement. Compression ratio is the ratio of enclosed volume at BDC to that at TDC. Messing around measuring it with a disassembled engine will usually bring inaccuracies in.


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: triton thrasher] #415081
01/24/12 6:36 pm
01/24/12 6:36 pm
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Let's not lose sight of the fact that we are dealing with theoretical combinations here. Very few of us actually own any of these bored and stroked unit twins.

Without the actual engine, it's going to be pretty difficult to get an accurate measurement by pouring fluid in the spark plug hole!

The idea behind the chart was to bring the most common possibilities together in one place, making it easier for an interested person to sort out which variation would make most sense for them.



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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #415083
01/24/12 6:54 pm
01/24/12 6:54 pm
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What- there's no engine?

That doesn't make it easy!


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: triton thrasher] #415084
01/24/12 6:59 pm
01/24/12 6:59 pm
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Bit of a monkey wrench all right.


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Re: Unit Twin Bore and Stroke Combinations [Re: Two Alpha] #415097
01/24/12 8:14 pm
01/24/12 8:14 pm
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Yet another update (see link in first post, page one).

Realized that I could work out approximately the BSA B44 piston top volume from information received in an email from Gary at SRM. Turns out that they are quite close to the A65 piston top volumes for a similar compression ratio.

This would put the B44 combustion chamber volume at about 81cc's, it would be great to have some confirmation on this.

So, since we're likely using custom rods for all of the variations over 800cc, it might be very beneficial to have a rod length that leaves the piston deck 1mm to 2mm below the cylinder deck at tdc, making the compression ratio a lot easier to live with.



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