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#396935 - 10/01/11 12:39 am Setting the point Gap  
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wood Offline
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wood  Offline
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canada
How do I know when to set the gap. It's a 1972 thunderbolt. Yes I don't know much.

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#396939 - 10/01/11 1:10 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
Point gap is part of regular maintenance. You will have to check it a few times, say 500, 1000 miles, to get a feel for how fast they change. The point heel needs lubrication. Felt wipers fit in the tangs between the points, still have them?

#396948 - 10/01/11 2:35 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: DMadigan]  
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wood Offline
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canada
Sorry wrong wording. I tryed setting the gap when the points are fully open. Which I am just guessing fully open.Is there some other way of exactly fully open is. The bike starts up runs for a couple seconds then dies. I was wondering if I set the points wrong?

#396951 - 10/01/11 3:57 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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LarryLebel Offline
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That's the way to do it ... heel (rubbing block) at the highest point on the cam where the points open as far as possible. If it starts but dies I would suspect a fuel problem.

#396966 - 10/01/11 8:25 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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Hasn't a late Thunderbolt got a mark scribed on the points cam? What does the manual say?


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#396984 - 10/01/11 1:09 pm Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: triton thrasher]  
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wood Offline
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The manual doesn't give exact details . just says set at 15 when fully open

#397023 - 10/01/11 7:28 pm Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Mark Z Online content
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Yes, there should be a scribe mark at the highest point, but if there isn't, the highest point is just beyond the flat spot. There is a square notch in the face of the cam along that flat spot.

I agree, if the engine starts but will not stay running, it's probably not the points or the timing.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
#397037 - 10/01/11 9:34 pm Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Ignoramus Online content
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when you get it running (even if briefly) check and see if there is exessive sparking at the points (when they open) that can indicate a condenser/capacitor is on the way out and could easily contribute to your motor dying on you. You will proably get SOME sparking at the points but excessive is pretty obvious.

I take it you have cleaned the points surface of any shit while you have been at it? If not use a peice of emmery tape or similar.


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
#397053 - 10/02/11 12:15 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Your points plate is a Lucas 6 CA,

completely removing it and studying it hard looking in a mirror whle throwing salt over your shoulder will help you excorcise/understand it.
there are lots of adjustments , better know what they all do,
the wee brass adjusters x4 are mounted with eccentrics they fine tune points gap x 2 ,and 2 for adjustment of each cylinder's timing.

On each set of points, the larger steel screw head is the pivot point and the smaller brass headed screw is part of an eccentric for fine adjustement, its the best Lucas can do, Judge for yourself,it will be OK if nothing is stripped and all adjusters work.How did Britain win the war?

Get a picture postcard or 15 thou thick thing to set point gap. With the pivot screw slack, move the brass screw to adjust, set the points at max open for RHS cylinder, somewhere on the flat of the cam when it is open, a slack 15 thou will do , tolerance is about 15- 20 thou..
Do the same for the left cylinder,
Now with the points gap set you can set the timing using the inner brass eccentrics with the points back plate screw slackened. ( not the screws you moved for setting the gaps) but the inner steel/ brass pair.
Setting the timing needs a strobe and is a new post. It uses individual points pair adjustent but a different pair the inner pair for shifting ponts arc and locking.
Given that each set of points needs 4 screws for adjustment plus the chances of an an an (over rich stutter) ATF ( away te feck) auto advance theres every chance you may consider electronic ignition, ( this only works if you beleive in evolution).
If you believe in anything, this will help your BSA run; in these doubtful days for Einsteinian physics ! ( ref neutrino defeats speed of light conundrum).
Just to get a spark alone with Lucas electrics requires faith of the strongest terms.
Budhists and Hindhis cam make Lucas points work, they are non denominisational.
Apart from the points which need a working Walt Disney spring bob advance and retard , ypu need good condensors/ capacitors and , coils, the less Lucas the better.

As a caveat I may add that out of my two BSAs I have the following Lucas parts ,, 2 x 6 V coils ( to run a Boyer , oh the irony).
These things get old , even if they were OK back in the day , its 50 years on, a lot of it has timed out.

A good soul stirring song will help, old testament stuff , i reccomend "By the rivers of Babylon"
This post has gone on tooooo long where is the FAQ section again?
Pod

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/02/11 12:42 am.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#397059 - 10/02/11 12:49 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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Having points was the reason I went to Boyer, 2nd breakdown on the A9 early 1979 (Slochd summit) culminating in a warped head ,a collision, a train ride, meeting a christian policeman and falling out with my dad. And a ride home on one cylinder with petrol all over one hand.

Lucas no more,

Pod


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#397077 - 10/02/11 3:21 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Ignoramus Online content
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Points are original


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
#397080 - 10/02/11 4:23 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Points are mechanical castanets.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#397090 - 10/02/11 9:45 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: gavin eisler]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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Originally Posted By: gavin eisler
2nd breakdown


What went wrong?

Tell us and we can learn. Rant about "Lucas" and "Boyer" and all we have is a silly argument.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#397107 - 10/02/11 1:31 pm Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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2 nd breakdown was the advance retard mech liberating itself from the taper.

I have no beefs about Boyer stuff, its always worked for me, havent fried one yet ,Pazon stuff sounds good too, never come across it though.
I did use points after that, on a different A65,
It came with no advance retard, fixed timing with an additional bearing to prevent points cam wobble. Then Lucas Rita, then Boyer.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#397147 - 10/02/11 7:44 pm Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: gavin eisler]  
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gREgg-K Offline
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Originally Posted By: gavin eisler
<SNIP> How did Britain win the war?<SNIP>


Britain didn't win the war ... they only won the battle that ended in 1945. If the world economy today is any indication, Germany and Japan won the war.

Regarding the original topic, Boyer won its name by creating a kit that replaced old, clapped-out ignition systems with new components ... and the internet spun that into Boyer being superior technology. Lost in the hype are the stories of failures at the side of road due to failed pickup stators, and worse, strange ignition behavior due to a slightly low battery.

I understand Boyer has an updated MKIV product, but I wonder whether we would still be offered the old black (analog) box if Pazon and TriSpark had not come along with their products?

.. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
Lucas, BTH, & Miller Magneto & Dynamo Restoration
SMITHS Chronometric Restoration
magneto@spyder-it.com
#397205 - 10/03/11 9:40 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Quote:
If it wasn't for the Pazon and Trispark (I have no understanding of the trispark system)
I don't think Boyer would have moved forward at all.

From what I understand a Boyer is 1/2 a Rita sold for 2/3 the price of a Rita because Pommie bike riders were too tight fisted to get the best product in the first place.
As for Germany.
1) they had the luxury of being able to start from scratch.
2) a lot of money went into to Germany where as the UK & France were faced with massive war debts both internally & externally
3) things were a bit tough in the UK but they were even worse for Germans.
I lived next to a woman who was a child born in post war Dresden.
She was tough , inventive & determined as she said hundreds of people died from starvation each day and only the tough survived.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#397207 - 10/03/11 11:21 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: BSA_WM20]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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Originally Posted By: BSA_WM20
[quote]From what I understand a Boyer is 1/2 a Rita sold for 2/3 the price of a Rita because Pommie bike riders were too tight fisted to get the best product in the first place..


Boyer understandably failed to advertise that their ignition wasn't as good as RITA.

If someone fits Boyer ignition and it works well (this does happen), he will tell his friends that Boyer is good. Some people may chime in right here to say Boyer is great. It wasn't and still isn't easy to get good dependable recommendations for products like this.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#397341 - 10/04/11 9:36 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: ]  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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Don't get me wrong.
I was not trying to say that a Boyer is 1/2 as good as a Rita it is 1/2 a Rita.
Ie divide a rita in two to make two Boyers.

Secondly I find very little wrong with the Boyers that I have used over the years ( 3 of them ) and have several sitting on the shelf waiting to go into future projects.
The caveat to the above is except the use of those blue insulated terminals which are too small for the wires an eventually pull out ( usually the earth ).
But I cut them all off and fit uninsulated terminals of the correct size for the wire and I also use spade terminals.

Nearly every problem members have had with Boyers have been due to the bad crimping which may in time actually destroy the electrics.
Run the Boyer with a separate fuse directly from the battery through an ignition relay and they will give you no problems.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#405819 - 11/27/11 9:36 am Re: Setting the point Gap [Re: wood]  
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Tiger Offline
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"Get a picture postcard or 15 thou thick thing to set point gap. With the pivot screw slack, move the brass screw to adjust, set the points at max open for RHS cylinder, somewhere on the flat of the cam when it is open, a slack 15 thou will do , tolerance is about 15- 20 thou.."

The above assuming that the breaker points have not been pitted on one side and deposited metal on the other, generally due to a semi dud condenser.

The "book" answer from the old days was to refinish the points on a fine stone and replace the condenser, unfortunately these days with a condenser made in Burkina Faso for 3d but $15.00 in an Auto store 'cause "you must really need it".

Can you imagine a newbie repeatedly tearing up a .015" business card trying to set points gap with pitted points ?

6CA are a skilled labour intensive operation, 4CA a bloody POS and the later 10CA slightly better than 6CA.

Before I get stuck into the worn out centrifugal auto advance mechanisms.

Parts quality is an issue with current supply of contact breaker assemblies, soft "heels" [which run against the points cam] wear and retard timing, fine for a casual rider bike but not for the bloke who does 500 miles in a day.

Do the above and you need food and a shower and sleep, next day top up engine oil and oil the chain and back into it, better things to do than f#c5 around with the ignition.

That said I now carry a spare Trispark stator.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.

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