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T100 Daytona 500 Identification #394974
09/18/11 4:57 pm
09/18/11 4:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 180
New Zealand
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Rick Willmore Offline OP
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Been looking at a Triumph 500 twin T100R for sale, advertised as a Daytona, but it has a single carb head, which I know is incorrect (but not necessarily a bad thing for a reliable ride).

I have never had much to do with the smaller Triumph twins, but I have been having a discussion re engine numbers and identification for late 60's Daytonas.

It seems 500cc Daytonas were numbered as either T100, T100R, T100C or T100T, but many other bikes also were also produced with those numbers and a single carb? Is this correct?

So it appears the only identifier for any T100 model being a sold as a Daytona is that it had twin carbs, ie you cant ID a Daytona only from the engine numbers as you could with a Bonneville, (T120 vs TR6)?

So if a bike has subsequently had a single carb head fitted, there is no way of knowing if it is or isn't actually a Daytona?

What other differences did the 500 Daytona have? Cams? Compression?

Any advice appreciated,
Rick


'71 BSA Firebird/Lightning
'03 BMW R1150R Rockster
'76 Montesa 348 'Malcolm Rathmell' Cota
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Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #394976
09/18/11 5:35 pm
09/18/11 5:35 pm
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bon Offline
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I have a daytona head on my bike and it is fitted with a single carb for convenience, so it maybe a daytona head. The daytona had bigger inlet valves then the other 500's and bonneville cam grind.

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #394977
09/18/11 5:37 pm
09/18/11 5:37 pm
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British Columbia
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I only know of T100T and T100R Daytonas, and the rather rare, last of the breed, disc brake T100D. Do you have a reference where T100C was used? T100 may have just been used as a general model identifier without the suffixes R or T being mentioned.

There is no "single carb head" or "twin carb head," the difference was accommodated solely with manifolds and a single carb is easily changed to twin carbs using the same head.

The differences between the Daytona and the other models included cam profiles with the later Daytona using the E3134. Also, the 8" TLS brake from the 650 was used in place of the 7".


"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #394983
09/18/11 6:22 pm
09/18/11 6:22 pm
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Rick,

Originally Posted By: Rick Willmore
it has a single carb head, which I know is incorrect

As 'hh' said, the basic head is the same with parallel inlet ports; single or twin carbs. were/are accommodated with different manifolds bolted to the head. That said, Daytonas originally supposedly had slightly (1/16"?) larger inlet valves and bronze guides, as opposed to cast iron guides in the single-carb. models. Around 40 years after the bike was made, assuming what the parts book says was actually fitted originally, want to bet that it's all still there, or it makes any difference?

Originally Posted By: Rick Willmore
It seems 500cc Daytonas were numbered as either T100, T100R, T100C or T100T,

Nope. A Daytona was always either a T100R in the US market or T100T in the rest of the world; T100C was the US-market single-carb model, fitted for off-roading - high pipes, folding footrests, engine bash plate, etc. No model was 'T100' on its own without a suffix.

Originally Posted By: Rick Willmore
you cant ID a Daytona only from the engine numbers as you could with a Bonneville, (T120 vs TR6)?
if a bike has subsequently had a single carb head fitted, there is no way of knowing if it is or isn't actually a Daytona?

Nope. The model code of an original Daytona will always be 'T100R' or 'T100T'.

Originally Posted By: Rick Willmore
What other differences did the 500 Daytona have?

Originally Posted By: hh
the 8" TLS brake from the 650 was used in place of the 7".

'67 Tiger Daytonas and early '68 Daytonas had the 8" sls; the 8" tls was only fitted after that. Also, the Daytona kept the pre-conical tls, the front end was never 'upgraded'.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #394985
09/18/11 7:10 pm
09/18/11 7:10 pm
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British Columbia
hh Offline
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A picture of the export only disc brake 1974 Daytona:



"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #394987
09/18/11 7:22 pm
09/18/11 7:22 pm
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Posts: 1,327
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
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Wilfred Offline
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what Stuart and hh said......plus the single carb T100S up to about 1970 not to mention the early 60's with SS, SC etc. Finding an original with everything as it was is close to impossible. If it's about riding do whatever seems right. My road Daytona is a 67 T100R engine with some 68 upgrades, a 1970 T100S cycle with the original WM2 18 rear wheel, a home market 3 imperial gallon tank, black faced instruments and a newly put together 8 inch TLS front brake in a new 18 inch WM2 rim, stainless fenders and T100T (19 tooth/46 tooth) final drive, except when I use the 43 tooth/rear brake drum. headlight bucket, side panels and gas tank are in Datsun silver, front engine mounts and centre support for the front fender are alloy and there's probably something else wrong with it too but it does the job, looks just fine and nobody knows or cares that it's not "correct". Oh yeah, I installed a steering damper as well, a holdover from the time of my first high speed wobble and step off in 1958......I've bought a 67 and a 68 Daytona with early 60's pistons in them, single carb cams in others, late rods and roller bearing in a 66 SC and all kind of other things so I guess the best thing to do is just get something in good nick and build it to suit whatever you like. I'm just about to put a pair of 1972 626 concentrics on my 67 engine in place of the 930 I've used for the last 30,000 miles as the engine is new and maybe I'll enjoy the occasional burst over 5000 rpm when in the mood......I have dual manifolds, 26, 28 and 30 mm single carb manifolds on hand so I can have some fun with that.......just a few rambling Sunday morning thoughts before I get my butt in gear and get something done today. Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #395044
09/19/11 2:42 am
09/19/11 2:42 am
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New Zealand
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Rick Willmore Offline OP
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Thanks for your clarifications gents, excellent info.
cheers
Rick


'71 BSA Firebird/Lightning
'03 BMW R1150R Rockster
'76 Montesa 348 'Malcolm Rathmell' Cota
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #395046
09/19/11 3:00 am
09/19/11 3:00 am
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A late model T100R Daytona head also has different included valve angles to a T00T or T100C to prevent the valves knitting at 8500 rpm+
The cams may have E3134 cast into them but they are far lumpier & have a different profile to the old 3134 grind (as fitted to the original first unit 1960 T100A distributor model)
The number should be stamped into the left case just below the cylinder base flange.

Last edited by Old Cafe Racer; 09/19/11 3:00 am.
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #395049
09/19/11 3:12 am
09/19/11 3:12 am
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Muriwai,New Zealand
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Llewelyn Offline
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T100r engine prefix was also used on the adventurer and has a single carb manifold that only fits the later 72-73? daytona

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Llewelyn] #395051
09/19/11 4:58 am
09/19/11 4:58 am
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: hh
A picture of the export only disc brake 1974 Daytona:

Given that it's most likely there were only 25 T100D's built, I suspect that's a picture of an originally-drum-brake Daytona with a T150 front end. wink

Originally Posted By: Llewelyn
T100r engine prefix was also used on the adventurer

Nope. Adventurer should be 'TR5T'. A TR5T engine also has differences around the head/rocker box area to accommodate the TR5T frame differences.

Originally Posted By: Llewelyn
and has a single carb manifold that only fits the later 72-73? daytona

Nope again. Up to the end of the '68 season, the manifold(s) mounting studs/bolts were/are 1/4" dia. and BSF thread into the head with 1/4"Cycle nut threads on the studs. From the beginning of the '69 season, the manifold(s) mounting studs/bolts were/are 5/16"UNC thread into the head with 5/16"UNF nut threads on the studs. Also, the later mounting holes are spaced further apart.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #395398
09/21/11 5:41 am
09/21/11 5:41 am
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Rick Willmore Offline OP
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So does anyone have any idea how many actual Daytonas were built?

Is there a website with production numbers for Triumph motorcycles?

It seems Wikipedia has a good page with all the build numbers for the TR6 but no other Triumph bikes.

cheers Rick


'71 BSA Firebird/Lightning
'03 BMW R1150R Rockster
'76 Montesa 348 'Malcolm Rathmell' Cota
Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Old Cafe Racer] #395434
09/21/11 12:28 pm
09/21/11 12:28 pm
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Pete R - R.I.P. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Old Cafe Racer
A late model T100R Daytona head also has different included valve angles to a T00T or T100C to prevent the valves knitting at 8500 rpm+

The cams may have E3134 cast into them but they are far lumpier & have a different profile to the old 3134 grind (as fitted to the original first unit 1960 T100A distributor model)


The Daytona had the 39 degree intake valve angle since 1967.

The intake cams aren't really hotter.They feel hotter in a 500 than in a 650,but they work at the same piston speed in a short-stroke engine (thus more revs).The "R" cam-followers in the Daytona give a few degrees more intake duration than the 3/4" followers in a 5TA.The 5TA only had the T110 exhaust grind,14 degrees less duration.
It was a lot of cam duration,for the short-stroke engine;and it had bigger valves in the new head.Advancing the lobe centres about 5 degrees (compared to 5TA) made it a little more tractable.

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Rick Willmore] #395545
09/21/11 11:11 pm
09/21/11 11:11 pm
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Stuart Offline
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Hi Rick,

Originally Posted By: Rick Willmore
So does anyone have any idea how many actual Daytonas were built?

Probably the Triumph Owners' Club. They have either the original, or copies of, documents supplied by Meriden to the Science Museum.

Also much useful information in "Triumph Tiger 100 And Daytona" by J.R. Nelson, especially when cross-referenced with "The Triumph Trophy Bible" by Harry Woolridge.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Stuart] #395585
09/22/11 6:26 am
09/22/11 6:26 am
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Sunny Sussex, UK
tbird649 Online content
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You could try Googling "TriumphDayt Owners". I havent looked, but its a Unit 350/500 Forum. I dont expect you will find any more knowlege there rather than here, but its another resource.



Re: T100 Daytona 500 Identification [Re: Pete R - R.I.P.] #395601
09/22/11 8:27 am
09/22/11 8:27 am
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Old Cafe Racer Offline
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This where I got my cam profile data from:
http://www.postdiluvian.org/~mason/moto/cam-timing.html
The paragraph on the 3134 cam is quite interesting.

.


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