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#392148 - 08/29/11 7:35 pm Modern headlamp bulb with shield question  
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Deadstiffcatt Online content
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I recently had to repalce my old Lucas headlamp bulb. Got a new Taiwanese bulb. This is a newer type that has some sort of metal shield in between the two filaments, unlike the older unit which had no shield.

Once installed, one beam has a nice normal light flow pattern, however, when I flip the dimmer switch to the other beam, this shield seems to concentrate all of the light flow pattern to ONE SIDE! It's a bit unnerving, as I'd like to see just as well on either side of the flow pattern. Unfortunately, this light pattern flow is to be the left side, and seems like it would really be blinding to others approaching me.

With the notch in the bulb base, there is really only one way to install it, so it is installed correctly.

Anyone know what the purpose of this shield inside the bulb is for? I am playing with a spare holder to modify my bulb mounting 90deg, to try and at least change the light flow pattern from vertical to a more horizontal one.

I do worry that I have perhaps offended Joseph Lucas, and this could be merely a natural consequence of introducing a non Lucas part into the system. But heck, I now own the bulb, it lights on both beams, and really hate to pay the cost of a genuine Lucas part...............

This link is what the bulb with shield looks like:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pre-Focus...=item415c28b654

Thanks for any help in understanding the construction of this bulb! Joe

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#392171 - 08/29/11 9:44 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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You need a motorcycle bulb which dips straight ahead.
You have a car bulb which dips to one side, left or right, depending on the country it is made for.

Trev.

#392850 - 09/03/11 9:40 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: trevinoz
You need a motorcycle bulb which dips straight ahead.
You have a car bulb which dips to one side, left or right, depending on the country it is made for.

I used to think that too, years ago. Then I lost a bet with a bloke who said it's the lens that directs the dip beam, not the bulb ... wink

Originally Posted By: Deadstiffcatt
I recently had to repalce my old Lucas headlamp bulb. Got a new Taiwanese bulb.

I suspect you've answered your own question. The "old Lucas headlamp bulb" fitting is known as 'British Pre Focus' (BPF), which should give you an idea of how widespread it was, and the fact that the new bulb was made in Taiwan should give you and idea of how widespread BPF is now? I suspect that your new bulb is filaments and envelope from something entirely different with the BPF fitting attached, to score a few bucks from those who don't search BritBike before they part with their money ... wink

Originally Posted By: Deadstiffcatt
really hate to pay the cost of a genuine Lucas part

So why didn't you just buy a headlamp that takes a modern bulb that you can buy in any auto. parts store? confused Hell, if you can't have a Japanese one from a motorcycle junkyard for next-to-nothing, you can buy one with 'Lucas' moulded in the lens from any half-decent Triumph dealer - the Co-op fitted 'em in the last few years ...

Hth.

Regards,

#392863 - 09/03/11 11:21 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
Originally Posted By: trevinoz
You need a motorcycle bulb which dips straight ahead.
You have a car bulb which dips to one side, left or right, depending on the country it is made for.

I used to think that too, years ago. Then I lost a bet with a bloke who said it's the lens that directs the dip beam, not the bulb



I suggest you look him up, and get your money back as it's not completely correct. A RH BPF reflector unit requires a RH BPF bulb, a LHD BPF reflector, a LH bulb and a vertical dip unit, a vertical dip BPF bulb. Using a handed bulb in a vertical dip headlamp unit will produce a poor dip beam.

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproducts....gName=Bulbs+BPF

Last edited by L.A.B.; 09/03/11 11:44 pm.
#392903 - 09/04/11 7:05 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: L.A.B.]  
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L.A.B. is right,Stuart.
The motorcyle glass has a different pattern to the handed drive types but if you look at the bulb construction you will see that the filaments in a motorcycle bulb are both central and the handed types have one filament off-set.
Trev.

#392907 - 09/04/11 7:31 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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Mystery solved. It was a defective bulb!!!

I returned to the gentleman (Jim) I bought the bulb from, and we started comparing the bulb in question to other bulbs he had in stock by the same mfg, as well as Lucas.

Although the locating notch and respective hi and low connections were correctly lined up in the manufacture of THIS particular bulb, the actual internal part of the bulb with the two filaments was a full 90 degrees rotated, INSIDE the glass!

(This is indeed something I had suspected when I first wrote this post, but what are the odds????)

We looked at 5 different bulbs, ALL of them but the one I had purchased had a correctly located horizontal type filament layout!!! So guess which one I naturally got with my original purchase?

To make it even more fun, he handed me a replacement bulb out of the five. No charge, as it was indeed defective and he saw that with his own two eyes. I took it out to the bike, installed it right there, and it didn't work on either high or low!! So I sheepishly took it back in, knowing that I was becoming a pain in the a-- type customer.....

He couldn't believe it, and took it back and hooked it up to his electrical test machine thingie, and indeed it would not light up! Yep, a second (yet completely different) defect! So he gave me a third bulb, and told me to get the heck out of his shop and take my damn bad luck with me!!!

(Can't blame him, though, anybody with MY kind of bad luck with an electrical device SHOULD be thrown out of a British bike shop...too bloody dangerous to let anywhere near proper working Lucas systems, too high of a chance of infecting them with THE curse!)

All in all, though, things turned out o.k. Jim really is a good guy and will eventually let me back in the shop, years down the road we will still be laughing about this bloody defective bulb incident, and I now have a genuine Taiwanese bulb that lights up the entire roadway in front of me instead of just the left half!!!!

Cheers!!!!

P.S. And yes, this is a 100% true story!!!! Good thing I don't skydive, eh?

#393073 - 09/05/11 11:31 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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My solution to this problem is I quit driving at night. I've tried various bulbs,an H4, a new lens, a sealed beam. All made differences, some a modest improvment, some changes made things worse. None were good enough for me on unfamiliar roads, at speed, at night.

I did not realize, however there were different bulbs for motorcycles/cars. I think it would be nice to find some aftermarket manufacturer that would make a bulb and globe that provided modern day lighting for our old bikes.
Mr Mike

#393092 - 09/05/11 1:37 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Mr Mike]  
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Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
I think it would be nice to find some aftermarket manufacturer that would make a bulb and globe that provided modern day lighting for our old bikes.
Mr Mike


They have.
QUARTZ HALOGEN REPLACEMENT HEADLAMP FOR 6V BPF:

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffybulbs.htm

LED in the back. One of these in front. Relevation.
A gentleman can indeed motor around after dark....

#393124 - 09/05/11 7:00 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Mr Mike]  
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Hi Mike,

Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
I've tried various bulbs,an H4, a new lens, a sealed beam. All made differences, some a modest improvment, some changes made things worse. None were good enough for me on unfamiliar roads, at speed, at night.

Fwiw, ime:-

. Much depends on your 'night vision', which appears to vary from person to person, even in the same family, and could well vary with age in the same person. In my case, I discovered the increased light sideways from a 20W QH pilot bulb had quite a marked effect on the speed and smoothness of my night-time riding. bigt

. Different bulbs and/or lenses can have different effects; while going from a 1960's/early 1970's BPF bulb/lens to a modern P43t or P45t bulb is unlikely to be "worse", different makes of bulbs in the modern lens can have noticeable effects. Again in my case, when I rewired and upgraded the electrics of my first T160, one of the main intentions was/is to be able to run a 100W main beam filament; while illegal in GB (and probably most other European countries and the US), the likelihood of being caught is negligible, ... and it's dramatically better than any 60W I've ever tried. wink

As a side issue, I note that most, if not all, modern cars don't switch off the dip filaments when mains are on; if we configured our bikes similarly, even with a legal 60/55 main/dip, that'd be 115W of light on 'main'.

Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
I did not realize, however there were different bulbs for motorcycles/cars.

confused Nor did I. According to Paul "Goffy" Goff (the guy behind the 'norbsa02' website, who thus qualifies as 'expert', in a field of one? wink ), 'motorcycle' lenses dip downwards while 'car' ones dip left or right; there isn't any mention of different bulbs for motorcycles and cars. Also, having bought 'modern' P43t and P45t bulbs from dozens of different sources, including many bike shops, over the last forty-odd years, I've never come across any mention of different bulbs for motorcycles and cars.

Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
it would be nice to find some aftermarket manufacturer that would make a bulb and globe that provided modern day lighting for our old bikes.

confused Given that almost every Brit. bike I've ever come across used either a 7"- or 5-3/4"-diameter headlamp - which British cars did in their millions - and standard automotive bulbs in rear and indicator lamps, one area I cannot recall ever having trouble upgrading is the lighting.

Hth.

Regards,

#393138 - 09/05/11 8:33 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
having bought 'modern' P43t and P45t bulbs from dozens of different sources, including many bike shops, over the last forty-odd years, I've never come across any mention of different bulbs for motorcycles and cars.


But, surely you have looked in your T160 parts book once or twice (370, 410 = BPF)?




Last edited by L.A.B.; 09/05/11 8:40 pm.
#393272 - 09/06/11 7:15 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: L.A.B.]  
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Hi Les,

Ah, I was looking for an excuse ... you've shone some light in a murky corner ... laughing I haven't had a chance to clarify everything ... grin clap

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
surely you have looked in your T160 parts book once or twice (370, 410 = BPF)?

After your previous post, I looked in a number of parts books, including the T160 one; unfortunately, the overall picture still isn't clear. wink

Aiui at least so far, apparently specifically for BPF, the lens/reflector, bulb and holder are all different depending on the dip pattern. The T160 parts book appears to bear this out as there are all numerically-separate parts for vertical- and RH-dip, and there appear to be a number of other - mainly Lucas - references on the interweb, but I'm intending to do some more detailed research as and when.

Otoh, my last post was about improved lighting, hence the specific reference to "'modern' P43t and P45t bulbs"; ime and afaict, for these bulb fittings, only the lens determines the dip pattern; BPF is neither of those, being P36d or P36t (depending on the electrical contacts) in that code.

The other thing I don't yet have an explanation for is the use of "410" in the T160 parts book's "Maker's Part No." column for the RH-dip bulb. Googling "410 bulb" finds innumerable references to P45t - mainly 45/40 main/dip - bulbs ... which, as I say, is not BPF. confused

Regards,

#393301 - 09/06/11 9:45 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Stuart]  
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Originally Posted By: Stuart
The other thing I don't yet have an explanation for is the use of "410" in the T160 parts book's "Maker's Part No." column for the RH-dip bulb. Googling "410 bulb" finds innumerable references to P45t - mainly 45/40 main/dip - bulbs ... which, as I say, is not BPF. confused


Presumably then, "410" was a P45t bulb and therefore it was the "RH dip headlamp bulb" (and the yellow 411 bulb for French market T160 headlamps [yellow bulb-part 60-3671 "Special Items-Europe Only"])

The L/H and R/H dip BPF (P36d) bulbs appear to be Lucas 414 and 415 (408 & 409 were also BPFs-apparently!)

http://jollyrogersmotors.com/node/364

#393354 - 09/07/11 6:34 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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I am puzzled as to why anyone would stick with a pre-focus when halogen conversions with moderate wattage globes are available ex the good Paul Goff ?

An important consideration when using the halogen is good voltage, from what I have read of the science a halogen filament continuously vapourises and recombines filament material but recombination will be less than complete with less than optimum voltage.

Relays are a really good idea.

This can apparently shorten filament life considerably and one of the handicaps we bear with older bikes is the single headlight arrangement.

Quality of globes also varies, even within a given brand, recently whilst collecting parts at our Auto Elec supplier I noted 10 x std spec Phillips H4 55/60 globes for $AU36.00 [$3.60 ea]

The top of range Phillips globes are just short of $20.00 ea from the same supplier [you have to buy a pair].

I would use a Taiwanese or mainland Chinese globe but only if manufactured there by Hella or Phillips or equivalent, reduces the chance of punching a hole in roadside bush.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
#393355 - 09/07/11 6:34 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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I am puzzled as to why anyone would stick with a pre-focus when halogen conversions with moderate wattage globes are available ex the good Paul Goff ?

An important consideration when using the halogen is good voltage, from what I have read of the science a halogen filament continuously vapourises and recombines filament material but recombination will be less than complete with less than optimum voltage.

Relays are a really good idea.

Poor voltage can apparently shorten filament life considerably and one of the handicaps we bear with older bikes is the single headlight arrangement.

Quality of globes also varies, even within a given brand, recently whilst collecting parts at our Auto Elec supplier I noted 10 x std spec Phillips H4 55/60 globes for $AU36.00 [$3.60 ea]

The top of range Phillips globes are just short of $20.00 ea from the same supplier [you have to buy a pair].

I would use a Taiwanese or mainland Chinese globe but only if manufactured there by Hella or Phillips or equivalent, reduces the chance of punching a hole in roadside bush.


Last edited by Tiger; 09/07/11 6:39 am.

1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
#393359 - 09/07/11 8:17 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Tiger]  
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Originally Posted By: Tiger
I am puzzled as to why anyone would stick with a pre-focus when halogen conversions with moderate wattage globes are available ex the good Paul Goff ?


Me too.
It's difficult to convince (even with demonstrations) any of the old geezers, in my old bike club, that the halogen/LED combination fits straight in and the headlight is bright enough to transverse the little lanes as fast as you care to go.

Horse. Water. Drink ?.

Last edited by Indiana; 09/07/11 8:17 am.
#393364 - 09/07/11 9:33 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Tiger]  
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Originally Posted By: Tiger
I am puzzled as to why anyone would stick with a pre-focus when halogen conversions with moderate wattage globes are available ex the good Paul Goff ?


Probably because many Brit/old bike owners don't ride their bikes much (if at all) after dark?

#393370 - 09/07/11 11:57 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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Stuart,
Thanks for all the comments. I have some vision problems that corrective lens don't fix. I have tried several optomitrists without success. I do see much better at night which is unusual. Anyway I have a Chinese bike that I use as a grocery shopper and it really lights up the street for night riding. I just wish I could buy a globe and bulb that would approach that performance. As far keeping both filaments being lit for hi-beam..... that is pretty easy do do on the BSA dipper switches and it does make an improvement althought somewhat taxing on the charging system.

It just seeems to me that lighting problem should be solved by now for us Brit riders that might like to go out for a nighttime cruise. Afterall we have good electronic ignition systems and regultors ...why not improved lights right off the shelf instead of this trial and error stuff we all go thru.

Mr Mike

#393402 - 09/07/11 3:21 pm Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: Deadstiffcatt]  
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Deadstiffcatt,

To answer your original question, the shield inside the bulb acts as a deflector to angle the beam of the filament below it downward, effectively 'cutting the top half off' of the round beam. (Or as in the case of the misaligned bulb, to the side of it), This helps to avoid blinding oncoming riders/drivers. In the case of your misaligned bulb, it can do just the opposite, directing the beam right into the other drivers eyes. Good thing ya got another bulb!
Now, with your nice, bright, and properly aligned 50 watt bulb, you'll be able to see the deer that leapt out of nowhere that can total you and your bike at least 1 millisecond sooner while traversing rural country roads at night filled with all sorts of nocturnal critters that don't give a damn if you have a million watt bulb while driving way too fast for a basic nighttime road condition that no one seems to consider- local wildlife and their habits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65GaJMl9KQ&feature=related

#393864 - 09/10/11 11:36 am Re: Modern headlamp bulb with shield question [Re: L.A.B.]  
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: L.A.B.
"410" was a P45t bulb and therefore it was the "RH dip headlamp bulb"

Intriguing thought. I'd assumed that the "R.H. dip" bits in the T160 parts book were also BPF - as various websites with Lucas lists still show at least r-h dip BPF bulbs - but your explanation would be another reason for a completely different lens/reflector and "bulb holder" as well as the bulb. Presumably then, the "13 54950493 Bulb holder - R.H. dip" for Europe in the T160 parts book is really the common 3-tab H4 plug? British Only and Domiracer both list the part number with the the descriptions "Adaptor Plug, Headlamp, Main Bulb" and "Adaptor, Sealed Beam" respectively ... but no pictures. frown Next time I'm talking to one of the long-time French or German T160 owners, I must enquire if any can remember what was originally fitted to their bikes.

Also, if you're right, wonder why NVT and Lucas went for two completely different headlamps, when Lucas could've supplied either the appropriate-dip BPF (and colour - I saw a list of Lucas bulbs that included a yellow BPF one) or all-P45t bulbs and plugs, with an appropriate lens/reflector?

Final thought is that NVT and Lucas continued to foist that crappy BPF headlamp on British, US and probably Oz and NZ riders while providing the Continentals with something much better. mad

Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
I have a Chinese bike that I use as a grocery shopper and it really lights up the street for night riding.

Might the Chinese bike have (a) HID lamp(s), these are very bright but consume little power? Unfortunately, you can't just fit a HID bulb in an earlier lens/reflector (not that that stops certain Fleebay sellers frown ) and, afaik, no-one yet produces complete replacement 7" and 5-3/4" round HID lamps.

Otoh, a couple of years after I bought my first T160, I moved to London to work and bought a CB400A for work; although both bikes had a 45/40 bulb, the Japanese one put out way more actual light than the Lucas. A few years later, when I rewired that T160, I fitted relays to power the 100/55 bulb; just for the hell of it, I connected up the Lucas BPF headlamp, just to see if the old wiring and/or switches were responsible for the original headlamp's poor output ... not a bit of difference, frown the Lucas BPF hamp and bulb were/are just crap.

Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
I just wish I could buy a globe and bulb that would approach that performance.

As I say, I don't have any problems with a 100/55 bulb.

With apologies to 'Deadstiffcat' for hijacking his thread. wink

Hth.

Regards,


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