BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
  JWood Auction  
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Photo posting tutorial

Member Spotlight
HughdeMann
HughdeMann
Beautiful North Carolina
Posts: 442
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
204 registered members (57nortonmodel77), 1,695 guests, and 530 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Brian Ellery, Jon Andrews, Berni Ernst, johnguppy, michael morgan
9955 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
btour 186
koan58 99
Stuart 89
NickL 62
Popular Topics(Views)
436,135 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums33
Topics65,263
Posts632,008
Members9,955
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#390055 - 08/17/11 9:25 am SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it???  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
HarveyH Offline
BritBike Forum member
HarveyH  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
Houston, TX
Is the SRM headstock tapered roller conversion kit (Click Here) a worthwhile mod? Is it a drop-in thing or is there some machining required?

Bike is a '70 A65L and I'm a semi-conservative street rider.

Thanks,

Harvey


1970 A65L (Yep, it's one of the "Y" bikes)
1942 HD45
1942 Boeing N2S-3
1930 Ford A
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!
Membership Type! Free
Member
Premium
Member
Premium Life
Member
Vendor
Member
Site
Sponsor
Recognition No Premium Member Premium Life member (5 years) Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
Post commercial threads No No No Yes Yes
Custom title No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Upload avatar & photos No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Link avatar & photos Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Private Message Storage: 10 100 100 100 100
Length of signatures 255 600 600 600 600
Removes this very advert island between post 1&2 No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Price Free $12.90/year $105.00 No End
$55.00/5 years
$210.00/year
($17.50/month)
Email
Click on button >>
  Premium Member Premium Life member Vendor Member Site Sponsor Membership
#390060 - 08/17/11 10:29 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 123
Jeff B Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jeff B  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 123
Germany
Highly recommended mod! Fit and forget.
It is easier to install than the standard ball bearing set.
Others will agree.
Regards
Jeff


Jeff B.
__________________
67'Hornet
71'B50SS
73'Ducati 450 SCR
95'Ducati 900 SL
82'H***a FT500
#390065 - 08/17/11 11:33 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: Jeff B]  
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,884
Rickman Online content
BritBike Forum member
Rickman  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,884
Ohio
Harvey,
Last I checked, the price for a set of drop-in tapered roller bearings, for a stock frame with stock forks, was about $90.

That was several years ago.

Tapered roller bearings have more surface contact than any ball bearing. It IS a better set-up.
Remember these bearings, in their instalation, NEVER see their speed [ RPM ] limit. They may see their impact limit???

Ball bearing set-ups have 'notched' their races, when given an impact, I am uncertain if rollers have gotten 'notched', under the same impact...

Roller bearings are SO much easier to re-lube over single ball set-ups, because when you dis-assemble the ball set-up, you'd best be certain you have a way to capture all the balls, as they fall out during dis-assembly!
The rollers are caged. No escaping rollers to find or capture.

Years ago, I tried to find bearings at a bearing supply house. { For what it's worth, I'm a BSA fellow... } I could find the cups to fit the frame's gooseneck, I could find the cone to fit the top of the stem, and Timken LISTED a cone that would have fitted the bottom of the stem, but after ordering the parts, I eventually found out that Timken hadn't produced that cone, at that time, in 30 years!
And I believe Timken still lists that bearing in their catalogue.... It is still not available.

Finally, I am building 3 non-stock A10's, as I am putting a disc brake front end on them, because I have never been happy with stock BSA braking.
Going to the same bearing houses, I found a tapered roller bearing set, that was darn close. Cones that fit either end of the stem. But the cups were just a bit large. Found a centerless grinding machine shop, who was willing to do a small run of supplied cups for me, I ended up paying about $60 per set of bearings, for my custom instalation, yeah, plus gas for doing all the "leg-work".

My bottom line is that YES, tapered rollers are worth the price.
Once all the effort to get them to work is done.
You just need to think about if you want to walk in, buy a product, or, research, design, engineer, do or have the machine work accomplished, and do all the "leg-work" involved.

Either way, a superior system to the original ball set-up.
Brett

#390084 - 08/17/11 12:50 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Alex Online content
BritBike Forum member
Alex  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Seattle
If the ball races are in good shape there is no reason to replace them. If, however, they have been brinelled (Dented) you may as well replace them with the SRM tapered roller setup since a new set of ball races cost about the same. To find out if your head bearings need replacement, put the bike on the centerstand, loosen your steering damper and headstock pinch bolt. Then tighten the bearing retainer nut while moving the steering back and forth. If the steering action starts to feel "notchy", your races are brinelled or worn and require replacement. If it just gets tighter but remains smooth, the bearings are in good shape. You may want to grease and adjust but there is no reason to replace them.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#390099 - 08/17/11 2:24 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,512
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,512
ca, us
The more important thing is whether they have seals. Suzuki late model UD forks use angular contact ball bearings in the headstock but they have seals. I do not remember seals on my '70 A65T.

#390107 - 08/17/11 2:41 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: DMadigan]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
hornet650 Offline
BritBike Forum member
hornet650  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
england
A sealed angular contact ball race conversion is also now available from Wassellfor the BSA A & B range models which is technically the correct application for steering bearings ( not taper ) most major japanese manufacturers are now reverting to angular contact races take a look in your new fire blade headstock

#390127 - 08/17/11 4:28 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,851
dave - NV Online content
BritBike Forum member
dave - NV  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,851
Elko, Nevada USA
The tapered roller head bearings I and many others use in our pre unit BSAs ie Goldies, A10s etc, have modified ground races to fit the stem and frame cups. This work is done by our engineer friend Peter Huber. Sadly there doesn't seem to be 'off the shelf' bearings available for our application so the machine work required adds to the cost.

Tapered head bearings are one of the many subtle modifications to improve our olde bikes. By their design, you can adjust the preload on these bearings for nil clearance and have a smooth turning bike with no binding. I like that. And I enjoyed my Goldie ride yesterday and the day before and... Lucky us eh?

There is one 'down side' to using tapered head bearing. As they are a bit taller they spread the triple clamps ~1/8" - 3/16". This can be ignored in some applications, but in others the fork covers won't fit properly. The 'elegant' fix is to simply mill the underside face of the upper clamp to compensate. I also suggest fitting a taller bearing shield as is also made by Huber from spun formed SS.


dave - NV
#390141 - 08/17/11 6:02 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: hornet650]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 219
DickDastardly Online content
BritBike Forum member
DickDastardly  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 219
Lives in Devon, covered in oil
Originally Posted By: hornet650
A sealed angular contact ball race conversion is also now available from Wassellfor the BSA A & B range models which is technically the correct application for steering bearings ( not taper ) most major japanese manufacturers are now reverting to angular contact races take a look in your new fire blade headstock


Strueth! W4ssell laughing if those guys had four hands they couldn't find their back-side!

I've bought a few parts from them, never again! But I suppose if this 'Balls-(up) race comes with a mig-welder, a coarse file, a full set of 'Cycle taps-n-dies', a Whitworth socket set and a years supply of 'Paracetamol', it may be worth considering, otherwise I'll stick to the SRM one! laughing




#390143 - 08/17/11 6:22 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: hornet650]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Alex Online content
BritBike Forum member
Alex  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,812
Seattle
Originally Posted By: hornet650
... technically the correct application for steering bearings ( not taper )


Huh?


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#390177 - 08/17/11 9:33 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: Alex]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 131
Henry Greg Offline
BritBike Forum member
Henry Greg  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 131
Lancashire, England
Just replaced the standard set up on my A65 (after 46 years use) with another standard set......... It turns lovely and smooth, fits without modification or fuss and is readily available.
The only thing I would add is make sure that you only use 20 balls per race as if you place them on the "male" cone you can actually fit 21 on it, these wont fit properly in the "female" cup.
New 1/4" balls are readily available from any decent bicycle dealer.

#390207 - 08/18/11 12:35 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
HarveyH Offline
BritBike Forum member
HarveyH  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
Houston, TX
Thanks guys! I think I'm going to give the SRM kit a try.

Harvey


1970 A65L (Yep, it's one of the "Y" bikes)
1942 HD45
1942 Boeing N2S-3
1930 Ford A
#390272 - 08/18/11 11:01 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: DickDastardly]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
hornet650 Offline
BritBike Forum member
hornet650  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
england
thanks for the positive response i guess the SRM taper conversion which is a ground and modified stock taper bearing is a much superior product ? please note Wassell do not actually make this conversion with files and hammers as you suggest it is actally a well developed product supplied by an ex RHP bearing development engineer with 40 years plus experience in making specialist bearings for most automotive and aviation applications
i guess he did not learn much about bearing load and working tolerances in the short time he served at RHP bearings?
taper bearings are great for headstocks easy to fit and adjust and will do the job perfectly well but speak to any bearing guy who actually knows his stuff( unlike the many experts who just read about it or ask a mate ) and they will reccomend angular contact ball races as the correct fitment for this application Norton got it right on the late featherbed and commando using angular contact as stock fitment if they are so heath robinson as you suggest why are most current superbikes now fitted with angular contact races not tapers ? could it be to help with turn in ? or are tapers just out of fashion for the 2011 season

#390273 - 08/18/11 11:33 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,882
kommando Online content
kommando  Online Content


Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,882
Scotland
Hornet, now I know where the Wassell's head race bearing comes from I would buy them but until then I would never have considered them based on experience, nice to know they have one part worth fitting but the ex-RHP guy would sell more by using a different distributor.

#390285 - 08/18/11 2:16 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: kommando]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
hornet650 Offline
BritBike Forum member
hornet650  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
england
not sure how you work that one out when 80 to 90% of European classic bike traders currently sell Wassell product some chose to disguise the fact by re packing the product ( the old chestnut of we get this made from the factory drawings )
wassell have a foot in the door of most dealers who else does have a customer base that big ? sell in bulk to a distributor or 1 at once retail as a manufacturer i know what path i would take

#390291 - 08/18/11 4:05 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
Boston, Massachusetts
Mr. Hornet:

I have know idea what you said above, but Wassell is essentially a distributor. He is working from some of the same manufacturing/wholesale distribution pool other distributors use. Most of those manufacturers choose, for what ever reason, to stay below the retail/dealer radar.


#390292 - 08/18/11 4:29 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,086
Morgan aka Admin Online happy
Ride safe today!
Morgan aka Admin  Online Happy

Ride safe today!

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,086
Gothenburg, Sweden
Which of the Wassell companies do you discuss here?


BSAing you
Morgan Johansson
BritBike.com.
____________________
Morgan on Facebook | BritBike on Facebook | Twitter | Skype: "britbike.com" |
Join our BritBike MotorCycle Forum on Facebook
#390325 - 08/18/11 8:22 pm Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
John Healy Online content
John Healy  Online Content


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,964
Boston, Massachusetts
Alan:
There are English made, actually just outside London near Tottenham, that make proper head lamp buckets. In fact you can find a lot of real well made parts coming from all parts of the world, But guess what... they are typically expensive.

Take Phil Pick's Triple Cycles. Before he closed his shop due to a couple of high speed racing get-offs and some head banging he had sorted and sold a very high quality line of triple parts. Along with Richard Peckett, they were solving problems on triples that owners didn't even know existed. Their businesses thrived because their customers appreciated what they were doing and were willing to pay a fair price for their parts and services. It will come as a surprise many of Phil's high quality parts were made in the UK by THE SAME PEOPLE who are making parts for suppliers who believe price is the only consideration. So with customer support this can be done.

For people to have high quality parts made, they need paying customers. If they don't have customers for things made to fit they must find the price point a customer is willing to pay, and then proceed. If this price point is only available at a lower quality you can fill this in from here.

Morgan - W.E. Wassell, the distributor seems to be who they are talking about. I don't think they are talking about T.J. Wassell, the manufacturer.


#390382 - 08/19/11 3:25 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: hornet650]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,317
Gary E Online content
BritBike Forum member
Gary E  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,317
Medford, Oregon
Originally Posted By: hornet650
not sure how you work that one out when 80 to 90% of European classic bike traders currently sell Wassell product some chose to disguise the fact by re packing the product (the old chestnut of we get this made from the factory drawings) wassell have a foot in the door of most dealers who else does have a customer base that big ? sell in bulk to a distributor or 1 at once retail as a manufacturer i know what path i would take


In the world of hi-tech gadgetry, I've noticed that more and more people who send text messages and emails have long forgotten the art of capitalization. For those of you who fall into this category, please take note of the following statement...

"Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

Is everybody clear on that?

I'm sticking with the original ball bearing and associated races and cones for my machines. I try my best to avoid slamming the front wheel into a curb or diving into a deep pot hole that would brinell the races. I've taken some races out during restoration that were slammed so hard they were cracked.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
#390394 - 08/19/11 5:34 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: Gary E]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,664
Jon W. Whitley Online content
Jon W. Whitley  Online Content



Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,664
Vermont
Hi Gary,

I concur with your statement regarding capitilization bigt .

I too have also removed races that have cracked from who knows what but must have been a bad pot hole road ridden life.




Originally Posted By: Gary E


In the world of hi-tech gadgetry, I've noticed that more and more people who send text messages and emails have long forgotten the art of capitalization. For those of you who fall into this category, please take note of the following statement...

"Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

Is everybody clear on that?




Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1970 BSA A65F 650 - Project

#390407 - 08/19/11 9:10 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: HarveyH]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
HarveyH Offline
BritBike Forum member
HarveyH  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 258
Houston, TX
And punctuation. That was one long sentence!


1970 A65L (Yep, it's one of the "Y" bikes)
1942 HD45
1942 Boeing N2S-3
1930 Ford A
#391380 - 08/24/11 11:32 am Re: SRM Fork Bearing Conversion Kit - Worth it??? [Re: hornet650]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 91
TripleTown Offline
BritBike Forum member
TripleTown  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 91
UK
Originally Posted By: hornet650
A sealed angular contact ball race conversion is also now available from Wassellfor the BSA A & B range models which is technically the correct application for steering bearings ( not taper )


I bought this conversion from a UK dealer, and it's excellent quality. I didn't know it was made by an ex RHP engineer!


Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.256s Queries: 15 (0.069s) Memory: 0.9632 MB (Peak: 1.2766 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-20 05:47:15 UTC