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#382750 - 07/06/11 12:28 pm A65 Front Axles  
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Doc_dup1 Online content
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Santa Barbara
I am building a bitsa based on a 68 A65L and I am confused about the front axle length. Most of my experience has been with Triumphs and I believe that I have a good understanding of the 68 vs 69/70 differences on those bikes. The 69/70 Triumph axles are longer than the 68 to match up with the wider triple clamps. From what I have read, the change was made to accommodate a larger tire size option. I put a post here a while back asking about BSA axles and I was told that BSA always used the longer axle. When I look at the BSA parts books for 68 and 70, I get confused. The axle part number changes from 68 to 69. The 69 BSA part number is the same as the 69 Triumph part number. I assumed that meant that BSA also went to the longer axle in 69. What confuses me is when I look at the part numbers for the triple clamps, they are the same for 68 and 69. My question is, why did the axle part number change if the triple clamps are the same? I tried a long axle on my 68 project, and it is obviously too long. Did BSA use a different axle than Triumph on the twin leading shoe brake in 68? If so, can anyone give me the length of a 68 front axle.

Thanks,

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

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#382757 - 07/06/11 1:16 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
'68 TLS brake uses a different axle since it still uses the bsa damper rod sliders, though it is the same length as the later axle, the grooves for the cap bolts are different..and I'm trying to remember here, but I think the ends are a different diamter, too. It, like the earlier triumph axle (though not the same as such) will not fit on '69 and '70 bikes. As far as the triple trees, BSA twins and some singles used the same tube spacing starting in about 1950..and the triple trees, while varying in detail (Dropped yokes, steering locks), pretty much all interchange up to the OIF years.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#382765 - 07/06/11 2:21 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Santa Barbara
Thanks Alex, it looks like my axle supply is all Triumph. Just to add to the confusion, my lowers have the split caps like a 68 BSA, but they have the two studs on each lower to mount the front fender. I thought that was an A10 or early A65 feature, but I thought that those bikes had a screw in axle. My next step seems to be to find a real 68 BSA front axle and see how it fits in my forks.

Thanks,

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

#382772 - 07/06/11 2:52 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
Doc, all the full-width SLS A10 and A65 hubs used the screw-on caps, only the single-sided brakes used the screw-in axle. The dead giveaway is indeed the fender tab as opposed to the studs.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#382843 - 07/06/11 10:16 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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arkansas
Not very important, but I seem to remember 68 axle is just a hair shorter overall than 69.

#382874 - 07/07/11 1:57 am Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Doc_dup1 Online content
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Santa Barbara
OK, if I have the studs on the sliders does that mean that I have A10 or early A65 sliders? I am asking because I do not have rods inside the forks.

Thanks,

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

#382931 - 07/07/11 1:02 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
Yes, '68 lightning sliders would have had the tab, not the studs, though as Allan rightly pointed out and I forgot about, Pre-units also used tabbed sliders with caps for a couple of years before switching to the studs. So yes, you likely have A10 or early A65 sliders...


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#382950 - 07/07/11 3:16 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Santa Barbara
Thanks Alex, do you know what the internal differences are between the A10 sliders that I have and the stock 68 sliders without the rods? I am wondering if these sliders will work on my tubes as I have it now. The front end on this bike was assembled when I got it and all we did was to take the fork tubes apart and inspect them for wear and obvious problems. When we did that, they looked to be all new inside.

Thanks,

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

#383002 - 07/07/11 7:32 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Pretty sure the damper rods are the only significant difference...


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#383015 - 07/07/11 8:32 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Doc_dup1 Online content
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Santa Barbara
Thanks, I am going to go with the combination that I have and see how it feels when I ride it. It will be just one of many mysteries that this bike has.

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

#383023 - 07/07/11 9:31 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
You could always add rod damping either by fitting an eddie dow rod damper system or fitting it from a later model.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#383056 - 07/07/11 11:45 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ






This is interesting... So what do I have here ?

I was hoping they were '68 rod dampened but they are not.
I don't have an internal pic handy but there is a dampening cone cast in to the lower inside of the slider. Certainly no provision for the dampening tube.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



#383074 - 07/08/11 2:40 am Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Santa Barbara
I believe that the lower tube should have a shuttle valve screwed on the end if you have the cone in the slider. They look like 68 forks to me.

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's and a Norton.

#383103 - 07/08/11 9:53 am Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ
I have been identifying the '66-'67 rod dampened sliders by the holes extending vertically through the clamps. The damper tube is secured at the bottom of the slider by a bolt through these holes. The dampener rod is held at the top by the unique threaded fork nut.

The 1968 A65 Lightning, Spitfire and Spitfires (The 2ls braked bikes) have a one year only fork. It has the split axle clamps similar to the later model but does not have the shuttle internals, these forks have the rod dampening still. The damper tube is shown as applicable to all models in the Parts Book as is the Allen bolt holding it to the bottom of the slider.

Unfortunately for me, my forks don't have those parts or provision for them (Yet). I don't have the drillings for the Allen screws and when I look down inside the slider I see a small cone shaped protrusion.

It would be about 40mm long and perhaps 13mm in diameter. Very much like Item 32 in the diagram below. (Of shuttle type 1970 forks). Only a fixed version of it.



I have to think these are very early A65 sliders, or possibly A10 or similar.

They have the bracket with two holes for fender mounting.
The cast lug on the side of one leg for the brake.
The split end clamp arrangement.
Fixed internal metering cone. (Restrictor)


Why, Y, Dash Y..



#383104 - 07/08/11 10:18 am Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ
I am pretty sure I have a spare set of '67 damper rod fork stanchions and metering assemblies. They have been extended, the damper rods also but rather crudely.
I was going the fit a 2ls wheel and axle to these sliders and have an interchangeable unit. Well that was the plan... hmmm.

Either I have a little machining ahead of me or I am still on the lookout. These ones were not expensive....and they were just an opportunistic purchase.











I found a pic of 1968 Forks, Items 15,16 and 42 are part of my problem. I am guessing the brake locating lug will be another. Probably followed by the axle issue... the topic of this thread.


Last edited by Kevin (NZ).; 07/08/11 11:46 am.
#383124 - 07/08/11 12:15 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: ]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ
Yep, I did not mean to confuse but I was trying to show the cone shaped protrusion.

Did you want the measurements of that bracket ? I have no idea what these forks came of. I don't even know if they are A65.

I was hoping to identify them;
a), to see if they are similar to '68 in many respects with a view to reworking them.
b), to identify them for resale.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



#383133 - 07/08/11 12:41 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
If you absolutely can't find a set of '68 sliders, I think your most expedient option is the eddie dow damper. Milling out that cone and drilling the bleed holes...or buying tubes and dampers...then getting it all to not leak...

Don't get me wrong, I've been known to engage in some stupidly time consuming machining projects that end up costing umpteen times more than a commonly available replacement...but I'd have to throw the punt call out on this one.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#383138 - 07/08/11 12:52 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Alex]  
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Rich B Online happy
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Stone Creek OH USA
Have to agree with Alex on this one....the Dow damper rods do work well. Easy to install and surprisingly effective for a simple device. I got mine from Paul Goff in the UK.

You do need to play with fork oil a bit to get the oil rating best suited to your weight and riding style. What works best for me in the rod dampened forks was too harsh with the Dow dampers.

If you want TLS with early sliders....play around with a conical backing plate grin I know, heresy (and no doubt I will be burned at the stake for saying it) to many, but they drop right into a half width hub.

You need a spacer between the bearing and backing plate, another spacer between the backing plate and slide. Retain the spacer that is part of the half width assembly to space the wheel to the slider. A bracket added to the fender mount to the stud on the back plate provides your torque reaction for the backing plate. Set the adjusters and cable up like any other conical and you have a quick and dirty TLS.

But a well set up late half width is no slouch either. grin


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
#383139 - 07/08/11 12:59 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ
Yep, thanks Alex. I was thinking about the time wasting exercise.
They are for a bike which is well down the list of projects anyway. I had them stashed away and almost forgotten until I read some of the comments on this thread.

It will great to find out what they came off all the same, there may even be a demand for them... who knows.
Hopefully someone here can help out identifying them.

I will continue looking for '68 sliders, I am a little wiser now.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



#383140 - 07/08/11 1:03 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Kevin (NZ).]  
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Kevin (NZ). Offline
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Christchurch, NZ
Thanks Rich, that is certainly an option for this bike also. It will be built up out of left overs.
I am sure others here will be intrigued to see how easy that conversion appears.

All good stuff.

#383144 - 07/08/11 1:29 pm Re: A65 Front Axles [Re: Doc_dup1]  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
After a little bit of sleuthing and tabulating, if they have the cones in the bottom and the fender mount tabs, they are either 57-58 general A or B-series or Spitfire Scrambler which appear to have used them all years. The following table might be of some help:


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


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