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Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121549
08/15/07 1:35 am
08/15/07 1:35 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Geoff Patrick Offline OP
Life member
Geoff Patrick  Offline OP
Life member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Are there any recommendations for renewing early pre-unit connecting rod big ends (no bearing shells)? Perhaps boring and making shells? Suggested qualified shops for the job are also appreciated!

Thanks!

gp


Watch "American Triumph" at www.americantriumph.tv
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Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121550
08/15/07 2:09 am
08/15/07 2:09 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
I believe you can directly sub a set of modern 650 rods and then use new inserts.

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121551
08/15/07 2:57 am
08/15/07 2:57 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Geoff Patrick Offline OP
Life member
Geoff Patrick  Offline OP
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Posts: 215
Southern California
I would consider using late pre-unit rods (modern?) but they are made for 1 5/8in big-end journals vs. the 1 7/16in journals of pre 1956 crank pins. Are there shells that make up this difference available or practical to manufacture?


Watch "American Triumph" at www.americantriumph.tv
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121552
08/15/07 7:30 am
08/15/07 7:30 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,557
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content

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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Maui Hawaii
My preference is for 59 & later cranks and that solves one problem. Now you have to machine down the timing side for the small main bearing or source a bearing that fits both the later crank and earlier crankcase. Can be done. done it myself before. OR get shell inserts from Austin A7 and have your machinist machine your rods to suit. If you are going to machine down your later crank, fit the roller bearing from racing bikes of that era for longer life. Details of these procedures can be had from Keith Moore at Moore's Cycle Center in Ca.


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121553
08/15/07 1:49 pm
08/15/07 1:49 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Port Townsend, WA
A
Amaranth Red Offline
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Amaranth Red  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Port Townsend, WA
Geoff,

If you plan to reuse the original small end crankshaft I know and have tried the following two methods:

1) Have the white metal babbit material renewed on the rods. I have used Paul's Rod and Bearing with sucess:

Paul's Rod & Bearing
6212 N.W. Bell Road
Parkville, MO 64152
816/587-4747

2) Have a machine shop ream/bored out the existing rods and have them fitted for shell bearings. I have the federal mogul numbers in my files at home if you want them, let me now. The problem with this method is a portion of the rod bolts must be eased away in order to fit the shells.

Like I said both methods work, your choice.

By the way I truly enjoy your "You Tube" videos.

Cheers Dan O..........


1948 3T Deluxe
1948 5T SpeedTwin
1948 Tiger 100
1954 TR5
1955 6TAC Thunderbird (Blackbird)
1956 TR6 Trophybird
1965 T120R Bonneville
1967 T100R Daytona
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121554
08/16/07 2:26 am
08/16/07 2:26 am
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Geoff Patrick Offline OP
Life member
Geoff Patrick  Offline OP
Life member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 215
Southern California
Thanks Dan! I have a couple sets of rods that are still babbitted and a couple bored for shells. I think the babbitt is kinda cool and kinda rare so I think I will go that route.

Can you tell me what bearing clearance you asked for with respect to the measured crankpin diameter?

and

Do you polish the rods before or after re-babbitting?


Thanks!...and I'll take that bearing shell info for my bored out rods.

gp


Watch "American Triumph" at www.americantriumph.tv
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods #121555
08/16/07 11:39 pm
08/16/07 11:39 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Port Townsend, WA
A
Amaranth Red Offline
BritBike Forum member
Amaranth Red  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Port Townsend, WA
Geoff,
Per the manual big-end clearance should be 0.0015 and the big end shell part number is FM 2060-SB
Cheers Dan O........


1948 3T Deluxe
1948 5T SpeedTwin
1948 Tiger 100
1954 TR5
1955 6TAC Thunderbird (Blackbird)
1956 TR6 Trophybird
1965 T120R Bonneville
1967 T100R Daytona
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: Amaranth Red] #374617
05/22/11 8:33 am
05/22/11 8:33 am
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Originally Posted By: Amaranth Red
Geoff,

If you plan to reuse the original small end crankshaft I know and have tried the following two methods:

1) Have the white metal babbit material renewed on the rods. I have used Paul's Rod and Bearing with sucess:

Paul's Rod & Bearing
6212 N.W. Bell Road
Parkville, MO 64152
816/587-4747

2) Have a machine shop ream/bored out the existing rods and have them fitted for shell bearings. I have the federal mogul numbers in my files at home if you want them, let me now. The problem with this method is a portion of the rod bolts must be eased away in order to fit the shells.

Like I said both methods work, your choice.

By the way I truly enjoy your "You Tube" videos.

Cheers Dan O..........



Hi, this is an old post I found. What are todays options with fitting replacement con rods to a small bearing 1949/50 crank ?

Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: RF Whatley] #376586
06/01/11 8:21 am
06/01/11 8:21 am
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Originally Posted By: RF Whatley
I believe you can directly sub a set of modern 650 rods and then use new inserts.

bigt


Do you have the details please ?

Do you know what the clearence should be with the big end's ? (one post I came accross says 0.015 and another says 0.003 to 0.005.
Regards.

Last edited by db133; 06/01/11 8:22 am.
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: Geoff Patrick] #376614
06/01/11 1:35 pm
06/01/11 1:35 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

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John Healy  Online Content

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J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,022
Boston, Massachusetts
I think Richard had a Senior moment. The late rod (replaceable shells) is not suitable for the early crankshaft.

Quote:
Do you know what the clearance should be with the big end's ? (one post I came accross says 0.015 and another says 0.003 to 0.005.


For the small journal (1.43601.4365) earlier crankshaft:
The Triumph Workshop manual for 1945 to 1955 models lists the clearance as .0005" to .0015" for the rod's big end bearing.

Geoff, Hawaiian Tiger is right, Keith Moore can give you some hands on advice. Also you should look up Mike Parti in North Hollywood (if you don't have his details give me a call). This is the type of work he was weaned on! Besides, he could be your next video!!


Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: Geoff Patrick] #376655
06/01/11 7:33 pm
06/01/11 7:33 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Thanks I'm on the case :
1. Keith Moore............
2. Mike Parti N Holly/wd......
3. Google.........................

b back......

Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: Geoff Patrick] #376687
06/01/11 11:22 pm
06/01/11 11:22 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,138
North Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Geoff Patrick
Can you tell me what bearing clearance you asked for with respect to the measured crankpin diameter?

The clearance is going to dial-in the oil film thickness. You may wish to research what modern engines are running since you'll be running modern oils, and may even have a filter.


Originally Posted By: Geoff Patrick
Do you polish the rods before or after re-babbitting?

Considering that polishing the rods (always length-wise, going with the long axis of the rod) is going to leave behind some polishing media, you need to make sure to protect the babbit from having the abrasive bits embed themselves into the soft babbit. That alone makes a strong case for replaceable inserts.

How will you measure soft babbit to 4 decimal places? It's hard enough measuring hard objects to 4 decimals, without the added difficulty of of an inside bore, and then on top of that very soft material that gives way under the pressure of measurement. Sounds as if special mics are required.


While babbit rods may sound quaint and lovely, there's a very real technical reason they're no longer used.


Just my unsolicited 2c


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

"Shop Boy" at Rodi British Bikes
Re: Early Pre-Unit Connecting Rods [Re: Geoff Patrick] #377655
06/07/11 5:04 pm
06/07/11 5:04 pm
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
db133 Offline
BritBike Forum member
db133  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
East Sussex UK
Thanks for the info.

I understand what you write can you give any examples where the

Tolerances should be changed due to modern oils being used with a filter ?

Regards

Last edited by db133; 06/07/11 5:04 pm.

Moderated by  John Healy 


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