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#36951 - 03/28/08 4:53 pm Sky high prices  
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JT441 Offline
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I'm afraid the prices for BSAs are starting to go the same direction as Triumphs. There are 3 441 Victors on eBay right now with bids ranging from $3,350 to $4,000!


JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
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#36952 - 03/28/08 5:03 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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BSACafe Offline
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Saint John, New Brunswick
The unit BSAs seem to be doing quite well, but the OIF still are lagging behind.


Jer

http://www.caferacer.ca

1968 BSA Lightning Cafe
1968 BSA Thunderbolt
1969 BSA Royal Star
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
#36953 - 03/28/08 5:12 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Dutch Offline
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Pentwater Mich.
JT; I found one that's even higher; The latest edition of the Michigan Auto&RV TRader has one for sale at a paltry 4500!! (Of course they also show a RE 500 ('99 military) for 2800. It must be spring, the "forsale" signs are blooming everywhere!! Vaya con Dios, Dutch

#36954 - 03/28/08 6:09 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Phillips Ranch, California
Five years ago there was a newly restored (professionally) 1967 B44E for sale for $5,000. I thought that was way to high and bought a broken down 1966 B44E to do my own restoration. Well, I should have bought the one for $5,000.

#36955 - 03/28/08 6:28 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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I went to a local estate auction last weekend. At the auction were a nicely-restored '68 Victor Special and a "partially restored" '54 B33.

The Victor brought $4500 plus a ten percent buyer's fee (total $4950). The B33 sold for $3500 plus ten percent. Neither bike had a title or even legible frame numbers. The prices seemed high to me, but maybe that's what they sell for now? confused

There is a Victor currently on eBay, listed as being in Longmont, CO. I think that's the one from the auction. If so, his reserve is going to be pretty high.

Debby

#36956 - 03/28/08 6:31 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Interesting as to what is possibly driving the prices up.
1, High cost of restoration
2. depreciation of the US dollar
3, They aint making them any more
and of course greed!

#36957 - 03/28/08 6:35 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Bob S Offline
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, Lower -Lower michigan
"for sale signs are blooming everywhere" Thats a neat one!.........Never heard it before, in the land of street rods[they do the same thing]HOORAY!!!!!!
BOB S. clap clap laugh


Bob S
Street Rods, Kustom Kars,A BSA,Cushmans,H.Shadow ACE, Now a 2004 triumph america . "More than enough!!!!
#36959 - 03/28/08 6:43 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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JT441 Offline
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Cadillac, MI
Bantam, here's a picture of my '71 Bonneville and one of my '70 Victor Specials I'm not sure what your roadsters look like.


JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
#36960 - 03/28/08 6:53 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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JT441 Offline
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Cadillac, MI
Here's a better one with my daughter aboard.



JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
#36962 - 03/28/08 8:04 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Alex Offline
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Seattle
BM, nothin' wrong with asking a question. I was a little confused about this, too and had to figure out what bike I was really selling at one point because some eBay nitpicker accused me of fraudulently advertising my '67 Victor as a "Special". Here's what I found in my research on early Victors: The Enduro is the same as the Special. I believe in '66 (B44E) and '67(B44EA) in the UK the Enduro name was used on the same bikes that were sold as Victor Specials in the US. The period sales brochures and dispatch records make this pretty clear.


A smattering:
'53 Gold Flash
'67 Royal Star
'71 Rickman Metisse
'40 Silver Star
'37 Rudge Special
sixtyseventy Lightboltrocket road racer...and many more.
#36963 - 03/28/08 8:15 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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JT441 Offline
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Cadillac, MI
Isn't the roadster what they called the Shooting Star over here?


JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
#36965 - 03/28/08 9:43 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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A motorcycle is worth what a particular person is willing to pay for it at the time.
A little while ago there was a bidding war for a particular BSA V-Twin which from memory ended up going for something in the region of £ 20,000.
This prompted several other to list their V twins and none of them got above £ 10,000 and all failed to reach reserve.
Ten years ago there was a really nice 1966 A65L in the window of one of the mens clothing store in the middle of the homosexual section of Oxford St in Sydney. It sold for $ 23,000 Aus which if it reflected the true value of BSA's then 1/2 of us are now millionairs by virtue of the contents of our garages.
I see lots of Bantams in the local motorcycle magazines listed for prices from $ 3,000 up to $ 6,000 but I am yet to meet any one who paid any more than $ 2,000 for one.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#36966 - 03/29/08 1:04 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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I think that the bike prices are partly that they are easing upward, and partly due to the fact that people can blow so much smoke and dazzle with mirrors via the Internet, much more so than when it was just Walneck's and the local paper you could see.

Trevor has it down ... the occasional bike sells for a lot of money just due to the fact that one guy at one spot has a lot of money in his pocket and pays a bundle.

Suddenly everyone with an old bike thinks they're ALL worth a fortune, and you see them offered all over the internet for big money. Not sold for big money, mind you, but offered for big money.

So, among all the bikes for sale around the world, we'll pick up on one or two and say Oh my God look Hornets are bringing $20000 I just saw one on eBay/craigslist/traderonline, oh no I'll never be able to afford one now. The fact is that they continue to trade among enthusiasts and club members for sensible money; that's how I get mine.

The factor that makes them truly rise in price is the fact that in today's world, despite all the moaning about gas prices and foreclosures and recession, people in general have got more money than they know what to do with. The guy that works next to me, makes about 3/4 what I do, just bought a $70,000 Ford F450 dually crew-cab, and a HD UltraClassic Glide something for $25,000 (mainly to carry in the truck.) It's incredible - our grandparents would never have believed that so much money could be spent on toys .... !

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#36968 - 03/29/08 10:07 pm Re: Sky high prices  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Lannis:
The fact is that they continue to trade among enthusiasts and club members for sensible money.
Interesting observation, Lannis. I think I would have to disagree. In my experience, enthusiasts tend to inflate value, sometimes worse than the open market, based on their own perspective and excitment about a particular bike.

Outside the obvious comfort zone of close friends, I think we all do tend to value our own bikes based on emotion rather than reality. Just ask your average Goldstar or Spitfire owner. (No offense intended to anyone in particular!! wink )

In that respect, eBay is the great equalizer. Yes, it can be the luck of the draw and wild variations exist when two people really want the same thing, but in the end, your bike's worth exactly what someone will enter on that last bid.

#36969 - 03/29/08 11:18 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Jim Bob -

Well, maybe I deal with a different set of enthusiasts ... the bikes that I've bought from fellow members of the BSA and Guzzi clubs have been fairly priced, we both ended up happy!

Maybe the high fellow-enthusiast prices come when you are trying to make an offer on a bike that the guy just doesn't want to sell. I know I've made one or two silly offers (silly on the high side) to club members for bikes I really wanted but they hadn't offered for sale, and been turned down ...

I'm not sure how good an indicator eBay is, as both Alex and I have pointed out, something around 80% of the BSAs on eBay for sale do not sell, for several reasons. So you really have to dig deep to see if you're looking at the real market price on those things. Just because the auction ended doesn't mean the bike sold ... you have to note whether it shows up again next week from the same seller ... !

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#36970 - 03/30/08 2:40 am Re: Sky high prices  
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hamden, ct.
Ten years ago there was a really nice 1966 A65L in the window of one of the mens clothing store in the middle of the homosexual section of Oxford St in Sydney. It sold for $ 23,000 Aus which if it reflected the true value of BSA's then 1/2 of us are now millionairs by virtue of the contents of our garages.


or quite gay by virtue of the contents of their closets. laughing

#36971 - 03/30/08 11:54 am Re: Sky high prices  
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I don't think you can dismiss the fact that these highly televised collector car auctions are having an impact on the motorcycle market. With four hours of live prime time coverage on any weekend (on a sports channel?)the collector car auction has morphed into a scene similar to the country club. Barrett-Jackson even has plans in motion to develop a country club for their particular clientèle with a track to actually run these automobiles. Don't think for a minute that someone watching a Hurst 442 bring in $120,000 at one of these auctions isn't now sparked by what he or she might have in their garage. Be it two wheels or four. Good or bad? Maybe good if you already own or bad if your looking to buy. Good or bad, it will continue.


,_o
_ -\_<,
(*)/'(*)

NOPGS #2
#36972 - 03/30/08 12:34 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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John RGS -

I don't know how much of an impact they're having on prices (maybe some; I've actually seen some bargains go under the hammer there) but those shows have grown more into a documentary of how B-J is feeding the egos of the guys buying the cars than about the cars themselves.

I don't have a TV myself, but my Mom watches the Speed Channel (big NASCAR fan) and the auctions are sometimes on when we're over there.

It's especially hilarious to watch the woman auctioneer working the crowd. Modestly dressed, not being obvious, but doing little things to work the buyers' egos up into big bids. Fay watches and says "Oh, she's good. Watch this - now she's going to lay her hand on his arm, just for a second .... NOW she's looking right into his eyes from 18 inches away, inside his personal space. That poor guy is doomed! You men are SO easy!"

And down goes some ugly hot-rod made of a Ford F1 pickup with a Nova subframe, a Corvette motor, and 120 pounds of bondo and molding for $150,000 ..... !!

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#36973 - 03/30/08 1:48 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Lannis, I believe they are called bidding assistants. If I actually had the money to have one of them in my face, I'd most likely be removed from the building in cuffs. Of course I might be a bit nicer to one of the young ladies. Some of these bidders sit in the back at fine tables being fed a steady stream of food and cocktails much like casino high rollers. The only dip stick they've ever seen is in the glass in front of them. At least a guy like Leno can get down on the ground, drain off his water tank, fire up his Steamer and drive away.


,_o
_ -\_<,
(*)/'(*)

NOPGS #2
#36974 - 03/30/08 2:15 pm Re: Sky high prices  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Lannis:
Well, maybe I deal with a different set of enthusiasts
Or you're just such a nice guy that people just naturally give you deals. laugh Actually, Lannis, that's probably true. I haven’t been on this forum for that long, but you do seem like a natural people person.

But for the rest of us ordinary folk out here in the real world, we have to deal with the inevitable elitist snobs, the self appointed arbiters of motorcycle value who MAY, if we beg, allow us to acquire one of their priceless Honda CB350s for a mere $10,000.

Or, they might just honor one of us poor plebes by offering to buy that inconsequential old Square Four for a few hundred bucks or perhaps trade it for a pair of used tires and some priceless unobtanium handlebar grips.

Sorry, don’t mean to be a cynic or curmudgeon here, and one of the reasons I enjoy this forum is the apparent quality of the people. But I’ve seen both the above scenarios and I hold a serious grudge against knowledgeable “collectors" who abuse their position in the hobby.

Jeez, that was a bit of a tirade, wasn’t it? OK, I feel better now. laughing

I guess, in the end, I really do have to agree with you. The ordinary enthusiast is probably the best source of fair deals and trading. As long as we beware the few wolfs in sheep’s clothing who would happily betray our trust for a few dollars.

#36975 - 03/30/08 6:15 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Cadillac, MI
Lannis,

I'm well aware that bikes occasionally get sold for outlandish prices. I'm not talking about the 441 that sold at last year's Las Vegas auction for $9,000. These were three separate auctions on eBay this week with BIDS ranging from $3,350 to $3,900 to $4,000. Those were not "Buy it now" prices. Those were the bids at the time I started the thread and none of the auctions were over yet.


JT441
'70 B44
'71 T120
'66 Spitfire
'85 Honda Shadow (the SO's bike)
'90 Honda Pacific Coast
'96 Honda Pacific Coast
#36976 - 03/30/08 9:00 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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Quote:
Originally posted by JT441:
Lannis,

I'm well aware that bikes occasionally get sold for outlandish prices. I'm not talking about the 441 that sold at last year's Las Vegas auction for $9,000. These were three separate auctions on eBay this week with BIDS ranging from $3,350 to $3,900 to $4,000. Those were not "Buy it now" prices. Those were the bids at the time I started the thread and none of the auctions were over yet.
JT441 -

They MIGHT sell ... but if you follow up on them, you will find it's likely that two or even all three of these bikes will not sell at those prices.

They might not meet the (silly) reserve. The buyer might not pay up. The seller might decide that he didn't get enough and claim the auction "ended early" 5 minutes before completion.

It's what happens to the MAJORITY of old motorcycle auctions on eBay these days, which is why (to me at least) it's lost its lustre as an indicator of true market prices.

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
#36977 - 03/30/08 9:44 pm Re: Sky high prices  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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Sydney Australia
There is a lot more to these silly high prices on eBay .
I know of a couple of people who put a vehicle ( both cars) up for auction with reserves that would never be met to prove a "current value" to their insurance companies, which was naturally much higher than market prices.
Do a search of "completed auctions" then sub sort that to "not sold" and you will find around 75% of all those BSA's that you saw at silly prices marked as "reserve not met".
It appears that you can have a "secret reserve price" on most of the online auctions.

Now if you want a better gauge of price then look at the real live auctions where the prices would seem to be moving on par with inflation.

The only real exception are the "better than showroom" restorations which generally get bought by the "know nothing second childhood fantasy chasers" desperatly trying to turn back the clock on their own mortality.

What I have also noticed that the same bikes come back up for sale in 3 to 5 years as the now 60+ year olds realize that it dose not make them any more sexually potent, they look silly poseing on them, they do not attract girlies 1/2 to 1/3 of their age, their back can not take riding with ace bars or clip ons, their knees are not up to kick starting the high compression motors, their eyes are not able to focus on the road any more & riding gives them headaches. And usually get resold for a lot less than they paid for them in the first place unless they can link up with another mirror of themselves.

Then there is the group who buy a reasonable bike spend way way way too much to bring it up to better then showroom state and think that the bike is now worth the original purchase price + the cost of everything that they have done to it since they bought it.
The club gets about 20 or so of these a year & one of the jobs I hate as secretary is replying to them that " although they have spent $15,000 on their A10 it is still only worth $ 9,000 tops and will probably take 5 years to sell at that price".
Want to guess at the temper of the replies that I get ?
Next I see the bike in the Trading Post @ $ 15,000 and it dose not sell.
Then it gets listed in "Just Bikes" at $ 15,000 and dose not sell.
Next the owner puts it on eBay with a $10,000 reserve at it again dose not sell.
Finally the owner sends it to a real vintage auction attatched to a motor show where 5 years latter it dose get sold to another cashed up clown trying to buy back his youth who has had nothing to do with motorcycles since 1975 when he got married & started his family.

Occasionally the original seller sends me a copy of the sale, calls me every name under the sun because he was correct and the bike was actually worth $ 15,000 and we are all theives & morons and are trying to feather our own nests and then goes on a personal vendetta to deride us at every oppertunity.

Even worse is that 20000 casual observers have seen all these A10's up for sale @ $ 15,000 ( not realizing that it was the same bike 3 times) so in their minds all A10's are now worth at least $ 15,000 minimum and this idea gets reinforced by the sale of something like an RGS for a true vale of $20,000 which to their ignorant minds is just another A10.

I have found that a better guide to prices is the "basket cases" and in particular the "rolling basket cases" as these bike are usually bought by people who know the marque & the market


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#36978 - 03/30/08 11:20 pm Re: Sky high prices  

**DONOTDELETE**
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lannis:
[QUOTE]They MIGHT sell ... but if you follow up on them, you will find it's likely that two or even all three of these bikes will not sell at those prices.
Just took a quick look at completed auctions for BSA on eBay. 35 bikes, 21 sold. I'm sure there is the occasional scammer, but every bike I've bought on eBay has been a completed deal at the price bid.

Sounds like you might have had a bad experience or two on eBay Lannis, but like everywhere else, there will be a few rotten apples. Doesn't mean the whole barrel is bad. Oh, I guess maybe in the case of apples it probably would mean that! eek

But not neccesarily on eBay.

#36979 - 03/31/08 2:29 am Re: Sky high prices  
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Jim Bob -

You've got to dig a little deeper than that. Just because the auction ended, even if the reserve was met, doesn't mean the bike sold.

If you watch carefully, you will see many of those bikes come back around for another go. As BSA WM_20 said, many of these things are just people selling them to "themselves" to establish some bogus value for insurance or something.

Follow the feedback. Of those 21 bikes, for how many was there a feedback trail of any kind? On the checking I've done, not many. Or, if you watch for a week or so, you'll see the bike show up again ...

I've bought four nice bikes on eBay, got a good deal on each one. No bad experiences yet. I think it's because I recognize eBay for what it is... a modern day Middle Eastern souk.

"Look at this! I have never seen one of these intact before. This is the famous Dead Sea Tupperware. Listen. (pbbt) Aah, still good."

Lannis


OK, I admit it, I'm addicted to brake fluid.

But I can stop any time I want.
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