thanx Britbodger , still need to finish the seat ,just got the foam and leather and tidy the wiring . few other things , but while we're talking about electrics my Vapor speedo/tach/computer works great and for $129 a great solution if you don't care about originality .
This is one of those myths that just keeps being repeated. The truth is you can run a boyer without a battery and still have a 1 or 2 kick starter. I've been doing it on my Hot Rod triumph for over 20 years. And to add to the frustration of some of the "Na-sayers",I run an Auto-meter Pro-cycle Tach with a light that is wired into the Ign. circuit so it draws power on starting,and I still have no problem firing in 1-2 kicks. Jack
I run a '72 Bonneville with a Pazon EI and the old Lucas regulator.
This is an interesting thread for me as I intend to install a 2MC capacitor in parallel with the existing battery, but on the "spare" position of the ignition switch. The plan is to have access to the 2MC in emergencies only. A flat battery away from home on a lonely road is as debilitating as almost anything one can think of.
Early Triumphs had this feature where the 2MC was accesssed by turning the key in the opposite direction for start. When the engine fired, all electrics worked as per normal battery mode. I used this system for long periods of time as I was unable to afford a new battery, which were relatively costly in those days. Obviously things would dim a bit at engine idle.
The Pazon, unlike some Boyer incarnations will operate at 8v DC. This would seem to lend it to 2MC operation, over others that need at least 12v. I just assume this as I am no auto electrician and I will no doubt find out for myself when this device is installed.
We all would agree that batteries die suddenly and at inconvenient times. It's got me buggered why Triumph dropped the installation of the 2MC, but there it is. For me I'd like to just turn the iggy switch the other way and ride on. RR
'72 Bonneville "He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have." - Don Juan Manuel
I have another of my unscientific contributions for this thread. I revisited the issue with one of my A65s I'd like to run without a battery. This is one where a few years ago I tried to run it with a Podtronics and a capacitor and Boyer III. Never could get it to start cold that way so have used a battery. Then a couple months ago I stuck a Boyer Powerbox in it. It would start, but it was hard work....put battery back, it starts with one or two kicks. I figure rotor magnets need checked.
So yesterday I think I really need to go thru the carbs on that bike, been a long time. Get it back together stick in the Powerbox. It starts after about 10 kicks. Run a while, let it die, same thing: kick the hell out of it to start. Patch a battery in- it fires right up.
Now I'm getting to my "point". This bike has had a can type dual coil, no name on it- seems to be a good coil. So I pulled that out and put in a new dual Dyna coil......starts right up. Started it several times, rode down to the gas station, etc.
Now I need to wait till tomorrow and see how she starts completely cold, but it looks good. If it is, then I have 3 successes with Boyer EI and no battery. All 3 have Dyna coils.
Thanks to my continued interest and experimentation with this issue, I think I have come to the essence of it: if you have a battery in the bike you know it'll start easily........, with no battery you HOPE it'll start easily.
Well, I've been continuing my hillbilly testing and here is the hot setup in Arkansas: Boyer Mark 3, Podtronics, Green Dyna coil, and a new blue USA made Mallory capacitor. And whichever alt. rotor from the pile which seems to have decent magnets.
My second choice is using that Sparx reg/rect/capacitor instead of podtronics and blue cap. The one I bought works pretty good.
That Mity Max still works, but its ancient and ugly. The Boyer Power Box I have is last choice, I don't like it. Still wouldn't mind trying one of those Pacifico boxes.
Took me a while to find this thread again, but I may have learned a little more about one of my favorite topics. One of this winter's projects was disassembling and sprucing up a little chopper I built last winter. I had a Boyer Mark 3 and a Sparx box, it would start, but not real easy and kicked back bad. Real hard after a long hot day driving nails.
So this winter I put a Pazon Surefire, Podtronics, and a blue cap on it.........thought it would fire right up- wrong. So this leads me back to the Lucas pile to look for a stronger rotor. But when I patched in a little battery she'd start first kick cold and alternator seemed fine- about 14 volts. I don't want to replace alternator yet, its about time to ride it even if I hang a little battery on it. It starts okay warm with just the cap.
Then I got to thinking about how my ET bike has to have the plugs about .018 to start good. So I went and pulled the new plugs out of this one and changed from .025 to .020. Started right up cold without battery. Gonna try it again today.
Back when I had the shop, this question was asked frequently, chopper bobber types not wanting a battery. Rather than guess, we experimented. An analogue Boyer starts getting erratic on the timing at about 10.50 volts, more so as the voltage decreases. About 9 volts it stops firing. In order for you to have it work without a battery and have a chance of starting, you need a good capacitor and a NEW stator and rotor, since the voltage produced is proportional to the RPM, and the RPM generated by kicking is not that much, unless you have NFL quality legs not on strike. As anyone in the real world knows, these things deteriorate with time, and an old marginal setup just won't cut it. The easiest way around this is to fit a good battery, but some people seem to be allergic to this , so here it is. A friend who set up several custom and desert racers confirmed this, they would run sort of reliably with new stators and rotors, no so with old stuff.
Thanks Marshall. I just hate to break down and buy a new rotor. Right now I got 3 or 4 other bikes with EI which fire up pretty well without battery. I've long figured that the rotor was biggest factor in making this work.