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Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #300655
02/27/10 2:04 pm
02/27/10 2:04 pm
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 230
Marblehead,Ma USA
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Woody1911a1 Offline
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Marblehead,Ma USA
thanx Britbodger , still need to finish the seat ,just got the foam and leather and tidy the wiring . few other things , but while we're talking about electrics my Vapor speedo/tach/computer works great and for $129 a great solution if you don't care about originality .


cheers , Woody

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Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Jack Adams] #300715
02/28/10 7:10 am
02/28/10 7:10 am
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 866
QLD, Australia
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RetroRod Offline
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QLD, Australia
Originally Posted By: Jack Adams
This is one of those myths that just keeps being repeated. The truth is you can run a boyer without a battery and still have a 1 or 2 kick starter. I've been doing it on my Hot Rod triumph for over 20 years. And to add to the frustration of some of the "Na-sayers",I run an Auto-meter Pro-cycle Tach with a light that is wired into the Ign. circuit so it draws power on starting,and I still have no problem firing in 1-2 kicks. Jack


I run a '72 Bonneville with a Pazon EI and the old Lucas regulator.

This is an interesting thread for me as I intend to install a 2MC capacitor in parallel with the existing battery, but on the "spare" position of the ignition switch. The plan is to have access to the 2MC in emergencies only. A flat battery away from home on a lonely road is as debilitating as almost anything one can think of.

Early Triumphs had this feature where the 2MC was accesssed by turning the key in the opposite direction for start. When the engine fired, all electrics worked as per normal battery mode. I used this system for long periods of time as I was unable to afford a new battery, which were relatively costly in those days. Obviously things would dim a bit at engine idle.

The Pazon, unlike some Boyer incarnations will operate at 8v DC. This would seem to lend it to 2MC operation, over others that need at least 12v. I just assume this as I am no auto electrician and I will no doubt find out for myself when this device is installed.

We all would agree that batteries die suddenly and at inconvenient times. It's got me buggered why Triumph dropped the installation of the 2MC, but there it is. For me I'd like to just turn the iggy switch the other way and ride on. RR


'72 Bonneville
"He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have." - Don Juan Manuel
Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Britbodger R.I.P.] #300720
02/28/10 9:10 am
02/28/10 9:10 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,994
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
Restoration?
When did Triumph sell anything like that?

Anyway, I think we can agree that battery-less systems and ET can live together, and work quite well.
Where we differ is in our definitions of, "street bike."

Mine includes high-output lights, horns, and turn signals.
By that definition, I need a battery.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: DavidP] #300829
03/01/10 2:20 am
03/01/10 2:20 am
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 230
Marblehead,Ma USA
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Woody1911a1 Offline
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Marblehead,Ma USA
why any vintage triumph owner , noooooo , why any bike owner that could so easily bypass the battery and start and run their cycle and doesn't do so is beyond me .

motorcycle batteries are a crap shoot and for the most part crap quality .

Woody

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Woody1911a1] #303553
03/17/10 4:30 am
03/17/10 4:30 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,249
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
I have another of my unscientific contributions for this thread. I revisited the issue with one of my A65s I'd like to run without a battery. This is one where a few years ago I tried to run it with a Podtronics and a capacitor and Boyer III. Never could get it to start cold that way so have used a battery. Then a couple months ago I stuck a Boyer Powerbox in it. It would start, but it was hard work....put battery back, it starts with one or two kicks. I figure rotor magnets need checked.

So yesterday I think I really need to go thru the carbs on that bike, been a long time. Get it back together stick in the Powerbox. It starts after about 10 kicks. Run a while, let it die, same thing: kick the hell out of it to start. Patch a battery in- it fires right up.

Now I'm getting to my "point". This bike has had a can type dual coil, no name on it- seems to be a good coil. So I pulled that out and put in a new dual Dyna coil......starts right up. Started it several times, rode down to the gas station, etc.

Now I need to wait till tomorrow and see how she starts completely cold, but it looks good. If it is, then I have 3 successes with Boyer EI and no battery. All 3 have Dyna coils.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: leon bee] #303556
03/17/10 5:40 am
03/17/10 5:40 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,994
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
So, there you have it. Works when everything is perfect.
I still say it's no way to run a street bike, much less a daily rider that's over 40 years old.

Woody: batteries are crap? Try most off-the-shelf capacitors.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: DavidP] #303674
03/17/10 8:57 pm
03/17/10 8:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,249
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Well, perfect except for rotor magnets maybe. I've still never used anything but 40 year old parts down there.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: leon bee] #303709
03/18/10 12:57 am
03/18/10 12:57 am
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,114
Noblesville, IN
Jack Adams Offline
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Jack Adams  Offline
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Noblesville, IN
leon, what was the primary resistance on the coil that had no name, I'm guessing it was in the 5-7 ohm range. Jack

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Woody1911a1] #303719
03/18/10 3:04 am
03/18/10 3:04 am
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28
Boston
slick1072 Offline
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Boston
Maybe we should start another thread on the subject, but I'd be interested to know what was involved in adapting those ceriani forks to the triumph tls hub.


Born to Lose, Live to Win.

RDOJB
Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: slick1072] #303728
03/18/10 4:44 am
03/18/10 4:44 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,249
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Jack, I didn't think to check it, but I will.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: leon bee] #307256
04/09/10 2:08 am
04/09/10 2:08 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,249
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Thanks to my continued interest and experimentation with this issue, I think I have come to the essence of it: if you have a battery in the bike you know it'll start easily........, with no battery you HOPE it'll start easily.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: ClassicGlory] #308010
04/14/10 12:48 am
04/14/10 12:48 am
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,349
melbourne florida
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bodine031 Online content
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Posts: 1,349
melbourne florida
my 56 year old wife can start her a65 on 2 kicks. ytx5 battery,Boyer, 3ohm single dual tower coil and copper core wires, n4 plugs, tympanium, 1 30mm mikuni carb.????

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Tony L.I. N.Y.] #332173
09/07/10 5:36 am
09/07/10 5:36 am
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arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Well, I've been continuing my hillbilly testing and here is the hot setup in Arkansas: Boyer Mark 3, Podtronics, Green Dyna coil, and a new blue USA made Mallory capacitor. And whichever alt. rotor from the pile which seems to have decent magnets.

My second choice is using that Sparx reg/rect/capacitor instead of podtronics and blue cap. The one I bought works pretty good.

That Mity Max still works, but its ancient and ugly. The Boyer Power Box I have is last choice, I don't like it. Still wouldn't mind trying one of those Pacifico boxes.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Tony L.I. N.Y.] #365209
03/27/11 7:05 pm
03/27/11 7:05 pm
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arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Took me a while to find this thread again, but I may have learned a little more about one of my favorite topics. One of this winter's projects was disassembling and sprucing up a little chopper I built last winter. I had a Boyer Mark 3 and a Sparx box, it would start, but not real easy and kicked back bad. Real hard after a long hot day driving nails.

So this winter I put a Pazon Surefire, Podtronics, and a blue cap on it.........thought it would fire right up- wrong. So this leads me back to the Lucas pile to look for a stronger rotor. But when I patched in a little battery she'd start first kick cold and alternator seemed fine- about 14 volts. I don't want to replace alternator yet, its about time to ride it even if I hang a little battery on it. It starts okay warm with just the cap.

Then I got to thinking about how my ET bike has to have the plugs about .018 to start good. So I went and pulled the new plugs out of this one and changed from .025 to .020. Started right up cold without battery. Gonna try it again today.

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Tony L.I. N.Y.] #365408
03/28/11 8:18 pm
03/28/11 8:18 pm
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9
Chicago, IL
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bpchicago Offline
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Chicago, IL
Back when I had the shop, this question was asked frequently, chopper bobber types not wanting a battery. Rather than guess, we experimented. An analogue Boyer starts getting erratic on the timing at about 10.50 volts, more so as the voltage decreases. About 9 volts it stops firing. In order for you to have it work without a battery and have a chance of starting, you need a good capacitor and a NEW stator and rotor, since the voltage produced is proportional to the RPM, and the RPM generated by kicking is not that much, unless you have NFL quality legs not on strike. As anyone in the real world knows, these things deteriorate with time, and an old marginal setup just won't cut it. The easiest way around this is to fit a good battery, but some people seem to be allergic to this , so here it is. A friend who set up several custom and desert racers confirmed this, they would run sort of reliably with new stators and rotors, no so with old stuff.

Marshall Hagy
Chicago

Re: electronic ignition with a battery eliminator? [Re: Tony L.I. N.Y.] #365418
03/28/11 9:29 pm
03/28/11 9:29 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,249
arkansas
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leon bee Offline
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arkansas
Thanks Marshall. I just hate to break down and buy a new rotor. Right now I got 3 or 4 other bikes with EI which fire up pretty well without battery. I've long figured that the rotor was biggest factor in making this work.

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