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#338610 - 10/17/10 2:09 pm strange charging issue  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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UK
My Bike had been off the road for a bit with some engine and magneto issues. Before that it was charging fine and Iíve messed with nothing electrical.

It has an M01 magdyno (the dynamo on top of the mag) with an electronic regulator.

I put it back together 2 months back, but am only now needing my main lights, however if I put main lights on then the battery drops to about 6v (over its terminals) and the ammeter is showing about -4. Hard revving might make it up to 6.2 and -1/-2 amps.

My dynamo, running unconnected to the bike, with its terminals joined together with a 6v 35W headlamp bulb makes it get brighter and brighter with revs. My meter tells me that I can easily get to 12v (and could rev for more).
That seems ok.

If I reconnect the dynamo and startup, the battery shows up to around 7v when revving with no lights on. If I've had my main lights on (i.e. drained a bit) then it will go to +2 on the ammeter. On sidelights, it's about the same. That all looks good. BUT as soon as I turn on the main beam, it drops back to around 6v and minus on the ammeter

I have run continuity checks on all wiring and re-soldered the connections from regulator to wiring. Exactly the same issue.
I charged up the original battery and then put a new battery same issue.

It must be regulator, right ?
But why then, does it charge ok on everything except main lights ?

driving me insance ...

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#338641 - 10/17/10 5:13 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
Joined: Feb 2007
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Don M. Offline
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Don M.  Offline
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California
What bulbs are you using. The standard dyno can only supply enough juice for the standard bulbs, 35W/25W, I think for these. Any more will drain the system as you describe. Cheers, Don.

#338651 - 10/17/10 5:46 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
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Michigan, USA
I would suspect the battery . I understand you installed a new battery but it is very possible that it could be bad off the shelf .You should be able to get it load tested at an auto parts store ,specify 6v .

FWIW-BONZO

#338659 - 10/17/10 6:35 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: BONZO R.I.P.]  
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Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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UK

I have LED's everywhere else, apart from headlight.
The system ran fine for 6 months, with this setup.
Bike off the road and now it won't.

I have other batteries. I can substitute.

I put a 25w bulb in the front, just to see and it will hit equilibrium on the ammeter but across the battery I cannot get it up to 7v. So, it's not coping with a system that is pulling less than standard watts.

#338666 - 10/17/10 7:26 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

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Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
A duff battery can be seen as a load to the circuit ,sorta think of it as the dynamo is using too much energy trying to charge a battery that will not accept a charge and it doesn't have enough power left for the lighting requirement . The general rule for electrical troublshooting is to start with a known good battery so if you have another bike with a charging system that is up to snuff you might swap out that battery,next thing to look at are ground connections making sure everything is clean and tight .From there the whole system should be pretty much point to point voltage checks until you find the culprit.

FWIW-BONZO

#339649 - 10/24/10 6:44 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: BONZO R.I.P.]  
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Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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It's not the battery. I checked by substitution with a known good one. It's not the generator. I checked by substution a known good one.

I am still mystified by 7v charge, with sidelights, and virtually nothing on main beam.
Unfortunately, I cannot swap the regulator over and it MUST be that ...

#339650 - 10/24/10 7:27 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
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Michigan, USA
OK, now we are getting somewhere ,did y9u triple check all ground connections? What brand is the solid state regulator? I had one go bad and sent it to Boyer for testing and they replaced it for me .

FWIW-BONZO

#339657 - 10/24/10 8:35 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
Joined: Feb 2008
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Tridentman Online content
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Tridentman  Online Content

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Suggest check that both dip and main beams are on when you switch to main beam.
HTH.

#339701 - 10/25/10 12:01 am Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,348
BONZO R.I.P. Offline
In Remembrance
BONZO R.I.P.  Offline
In Remembrance

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Posts: 3,348
Michigan, USA
OK,I like a good mystery as well as the next and this post was echoeing around in my skull as I was changing a starter on the old truck and I had a thought and after re-reading the original post I don't see it mentioned . Have you checked the physical condition of the generator? I would pay particular attention to insulators/brush length and spring tension ,I'm sure you know the drill.I pretty much forgot that I had a very similar issue with a BMW that turned out to be a worn brush . It would seem that when BMW spec's .375" they mean it and .374" aint gonna cut it ,one friggin thou ....

FWIW-BONZO

#339741 - 10/25/10 8:44 am Re: strange charging issue [Re: BONZO R.I.P.]  
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Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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UK

The generator is now one from another different bike.
I started this bike, which runs exactly the same charging system and same size bulbs, and it was charging perfectly (or as perfect as Mr Lucas intended) before being swapped over.

I checked all the wiring for contunuity, t'other day, and it all had a suitably low resistance.

I ran extra earths to both the headlamp shell and the rear light, when I remade the loom earlier this year. The earth from the battery, the regulator and these extra ones all come from the same earth mount on the frame. I get good continuity from battery to headlamp. All joints are soldered.

I haven't looked at the switch, ammeter or headlamp bulb mount apart from checking nothing was earthed and it was all tight.
I can rig some wires to run the bulb direct from battery/ammeter lead (the ammeter lead being the one off the regulator). That should eliminate all of that. Good idea.

What about the "clutch" on the magneto itself?
Is there any effective way to test this.
I have run a 6v 35w bulb directly off the dynamo (i.e. no regulator) and it would light it - I am wondering if I place more load then I can simulate the bike system (which cannot be much more than 40w).


The regulator is a Sean Hawker one (Hawker electricals). I have spoken to him and he will test it for me. Take a while though. The one on the other bike is the same BUT I've got it in the toolbox with different connectors and it would be a pain to remove it/cut them off and then resolder them back on afterwards. I need this bike to run about on.

It IS a mystery

cheers

John



Last edited by Indiana; 10/25/10 2:43 pm.
#340150 - 10/27/10 5:22 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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It's not the switch, light switch or anything up front. Wired past that.

It must be the regulator or the clutch on the magneto.
Given I just had the magneto recondtioned, then my money is there.

More expense and time off the road, eh

#340160 - 10/27/10 6:42 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
The magneto is nothing to do with the charging system, it does sparks, thats all.
Im not aware of a clutch in a dynamo, very unusual.

As previously mentioned check for Main and dip lighting at the same time, or an earth fault in the main circuit, or generally poor dynamo condition, an ammeter would help you on your diagnostic trail.
Pod


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
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The poster formerly known as Pod
#340164 - 10/27/10 7:54 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: gavin eisler]  
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triton thrasher Online content
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triton thrasher  Online Content
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scotland
Originally Posted By: gavin eisler

Im not aware of a clutch in a dynamo, very unusual.



Most of the Fifties singles had Magdynos. They have a friction plate under spring pressure in the drive from magneto to dynamo, to save things from shocks when the engine kicks back,


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
#340171 - 10/27/10 8:29 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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Gordo in Comox Offline
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Comox BC Canada
In this photo the spring star shaped thing pushes on a steel ring inside the fibre washer and can slip if the tension is wrong or if something very bad happens with the dynamo.

Gordo



Without frequent roadside repairs there is no fun in riding!
#340252 - 10/28/10 11:21 am Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Well feed me that humble pie, clutches indeed , thats me told, belying my lack of knowledge in magdynos. Presumably there in case of a seized dynamo, theres confidence! Must have had a few expolded armatures cause havoc sometime.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
#340393 - 10/29/10 6:49 am Re: strange charging issue [Re: gavin eisler]  
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BSA_WM20 Online content
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BSA_WM20  Online Content
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Sydney Australia
Well not really but a shark kick back causes the magneto gear to strip several teeth from the dynamo gear which tends to play havock with the timing.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
#353778 - 01/19/11 4:02 pm Re: strange charging issue [Re: BSA_WM20]  
Joined: Oct 2010
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Indiana Offline
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Indiana  Offline
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Posts: 13
UK

FYI.
Old post.

I did some other work, while the mag was off.
Replaced the spring and tightened it's nut, as per Lucas specs.
Voila - charging again

#353847 - 01/20/11 12:28 am Re: strange charging issue [Re: Indiana]  
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KarlB Offline
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Kent
Thanks for posting the follow up. It is really useful when folk not only post the problems but also how they were eventually rectified (excuse the pun)... bigt


KarlB
Big day has come and gone and still no idea what Project 50 will be!

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