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#331247 - 09/02/10 11:42 am Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's  
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retired-fireman Offline
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Hi all I have completely given up trying to make the search funcion work, could someone help. I want some info on the 12" floating front disc brake kit that Norman Hyde makes for 140's. HELP!!

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#331260 - 09/02/10 1:04 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
http://www.normanhyde.co.uk/search.php?tag=40 don't know if this will help in any way. I run one very much the same on my t-140 but on a yamaha hub because it is half the price.

Last edited by phantom309; 09/02/10 1:09 pm.

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#331331 - 09/02/10 7:31 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: phantom309]  
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retired-fireman Offline
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Thanks Phantom, I have used his website and that's were I got the idea of fitting the floating 12" brake from. Someone on here must have one on a 750 triumph I need to know if the kit is as good an improvement as they claim and worth the extra dollars over replacing the stock disc. Thanks in advance. R.F.

#331344 - 09/02/10 9:07 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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chilly Offline
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St Neots England
Seem to remember reading a while back that it wasn't as good as it should have been,the buyer was gonna fit later twin discs instead.

#331353 - 09/02/10 9:55 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi,

If you're looking for improvement, I'm intrigued to know why you'd consider a single larger disc in preference to twin discs? The latter is a great improvement over the standard single disc, the bits are available everywhere ... and you won't have a perfectly good standard disc for a door-stop. wink

Regards,

#331366 - 09/02/10 11:17 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: Stuart]  
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retired-fireman Offline
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Thanks for the reply Stuart, the disc on the bike is a bit warped so instead of paying to replace it with a new non chromed disc I thought that purchasing the Hyde kit and getting a lot better brake as they claim (Alan at N.H.)could be more economical than buying a right hand slider 230 quid odd,another caliper 100 odd, pads and the associated plumbing bits to make it all work and the postage to Australia. Twin discs would have to be better if set up properly be it that you are doubling the disc/pad contact area but does it work properly with the std m/cylinder or do you have to replace that as well at additional cost. I know of some bikes that use a larger size bore in the M/Cyl for the twin disc set up than in the single disc on the same bike. I don't ride hard just thought the Hyde might give a marked improvement for a lot less cost. Someone must have fitted one of the 12" Hyde kits on their T140???

#331382 - 09/03/10 12:39 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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phantom309 Offline
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spfld vt
Mine on my old race bike is the same thing but with a 12mm brembo mastercyclinder. Its just on a yami hub. works killer


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#331431 - 09/03/10 8:41 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: phantom309]  
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chilly Offline
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chilly  Offline
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St Neots England
Found the article in Classic Bike Mag 2002

This lad spent a fortune on upgrading his Bonnie for fast road use,tried the 12" disc and reports that it wasn't worth changing from standard,he has since fitted twin Hyde discs.

Maybe worth getting the disc skimmed

Hope this helps

Retired Fireman ;>)
Chilly

#331543 - 09/04/10 12:07 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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Tasman Online content
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I remember seeing pictures of racing Triumphs from the seventies which used a left slider on the right leg, rotated 180 degrees. It looks a bit odd with one leading caliper and one trailing but the functionality is there and the parts could be cheaper. Just an idea.


"Live the life you love, find a god you trust and don't take it all too seriously"

Pre-units rule!

Mid fifties Triumph T100
#331596 - 09/04/10 11:38 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi,

Originally Posted By: retired-fireman
they claim (Alan at N.H.)could be more economical

To paraphrase that well-known saying, he would say that, wouldn't he? laughing Have you had a look around at prices for the components in Oz? In particular, another single-disc steel caliper can be used upside-down.

Originally Posted By: retired-fireman
Twin discs
does it work properly with the std m/cylinder

Define 'properly'.

As 'phantom' says, he uses a single caliper with a 12mm (standard is 5/8") i.d. master cylinder for racing while Dave Madigan ('DMadigan') sleeves Lockheed master cylinders to 1/2" i.d., and many owners love the results.

Otoh, both my T160's have twin front discs with 7/10" i.d. master cylinders; I've tried twin discs set up on 5/8" master cylinders and didn't like 'em, but then my T100 has a single disc on a 5/8" master cylinder. Also, my T160's have the late Co-op switch clusters with dog-leg levers.

Bear in mind that Lockheed did supply the Co-op with calipers with smaller (38mm instead of the more usual 1-9/16" (42mm-ish) pistons, so the 5/8" master cylinder could be used with either single or twin discs and give similar lever travel. Afaik, the calipers themselves aren't available brand-new but, if you were looking and found used, seals kits are available. However, I appreciate that this might be drifting away from your point.

Originally Posted By: retired-fireman
additional cost.

If you do go for the bigger single disc, I'd budget for a decent fork brace - the original 10" single disc does some pretty horrible things to the forks, which're only going to get worse with a 12".

Hth.

Regards,

#331621 - 09/04/10 1:56 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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http://www.vintagebrake.com/

Michael has been a valuable resource for brake service for quite a few years.

May I suggest:

- Removing the chrome from the stock disc.

- Get a set of Ferodo pads to suit your riding style and skill, remembering that Phantom's experience, using racing tires, will be different than your experience using street compound tires. Especially given you can lock the front brake of a well set-up stock T140 to start with.

- Get a set of stainless brake hoses.

You should read the article on caliper to master cylinder ratios. Remember his recommendations are for race applications. While we all want to be able to stop like a racer, our experience level, and equipment (especially tire compounds) can be vastly different.
Also you should check out the available compounds and consider that you ride in a wet environment, consider Ferodo's Platinum series pads.

If you are looking for a better "look" you might consider his Triumph full floating disc.
HTH


#331705 - 09/04/10 7:45 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: John Healy]  
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retired-fireman Offline
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Thank you all for the replies and esspecialy to John for that brake link just put it straight in my favorites, will have a re think. John remember a couple of years ago you sent me some pics on balancing my 750 Tri and suggestions to cure problems I had with a piston seizue after rebuild? Firstly I copied your balancing rig and rebalanced the crank to 75%. The result is that the engine is a lot smoother between 2800-3600rpm then a little vib until 4000 were it smooths out again. Don't know about above 5500 cause I don't take it there. Secondly I followed the dry assembly method you recommended and am pleased to report that the bike has done 10000k's since and has excellent compression, thank you for your advice. Also I fitted the roller on the timing side and a 1969 T120 ex cam and a 4 valve pump with SRM's pressure valve, very happy with the engine it runs the best it has in 34 years since I bought it. Tappets 008" in and 004" ex, ex timing now 55-34deg much improved low and mid range power just thought I'd let you know! R.F.

#331731 - 09/05/10 12:22 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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Retired: I still have the T shirt!!! Thanks again. Now I am going to be taken to task here, but you might also consider using DOT 3, 4 or 5.1 brake fluid. It will give you a firmer feel on the lever. DOT 5, while it has other virtues much touted by some on this site, does not always give you as firm a lever. Most racers do not use DOT 5, but prefer the 3, 4 or 5.1.
John


#331739 - 09/05/10 1:16 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: John Healy]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi John,

Originally Posted By: John Healy
DOT 5, while it has other virtues

Like it doesn't need changing and doesn't rot those useful internal bits ... mmm

Originally Posted By: John Healy
does not always give you as firm a lever.

Must be why I like those bigger master cylinders ...

Originally Posted By: John Healy
Most racers do not use DOT 5,

As is sometimes disparagingly said about GB, it isn't what you know but who you know.

wink

Regards,

#334062 - 09/17/10 7:43 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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Dan The Dane Offline
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Hi.
I have a 13" Norvil (Norton) disc on my T140 with alu Lockheed caliper and 13mm mastercylinder. Itīs the best part of the whole bike, breaks like a modern Bonneville and with only 2 fingers.
Iīve never tried a Triumph with double disc, but would like to compare.
Dan

#334127 - 09/18/10 11:43 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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Sisyphus Offline
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FWIW, I have the standard 10" iron disc on my T140 but have a Magura m/c w/ a 13mm bore and braided stainless lines. As John Healy pointed out you really can stand one of these up on the front wheel with a properly set up brake. I tend to agree!


There is no such thing as a sympathetic vibration.
#334175 - 09/18/10 7:24 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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Quote:
As is sometimes disparagingly said about GB, it isn't what you know but who you know.


Gaw Gee Uncle Stuart... You must think I just got off the Pumpkin Truck. shocked


#334198 - 09/18/10 10:39 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: John Healy]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi John,

Originally Posted By: John Healy
Most racers do not use DOT 5,

Originally Posted By: John Healy
Quote:
As is sometimes disparagingly said about GB, it isn't what you know but who you know.

Gaw Gee Uncle Stuart... You must think I just got off the Pumpkin Truck. shocked

My comment was intended as a response to yours about racers and DOT5, not as a general comment on your knowledge or experience; to be absolutely clear: I know racers here in GB who use DOT5.

However, I don't see the relevance to to this thread - where has 'retired-fireman' indicated his intention to go racing? Again to be absolutely clear: I've used DOT5 in all my bikes, most of which are a damn' sight heavier and faster than a T140, for nearly three decades, during which time I've covered well over 100,000 road miles. Also, I know several people who've also used DOT5 for years; collectively, half-a-million miles' experience would be a conservative estimate. Plenty of people have volunteered that they like the low maintenace requirements of DOT5 but I've yet to come across anyone who's commented on the firmness or otherwise of lever or pedal.

Hth.

Regards,

Last edited by Stuart; 09/18/10 11:04 pm.
#334298 - 09/19/10 3:00 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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Last edited by John Healy; 09/19/10 3:02 pm.

#334409 - 09/20/10 3:21 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: John Healy]  
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Stuart Online content
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Hi John,

laughing clap bigt

You very nearly got me there - blush I admit to having a steaming post part-written 'til I ran some searches on this forum, a few others I read and Google. wink

It's fooled a few people though - Google throws up a couple of the MG (car, not Italian bike) forums where it appears in different formats but word-for-word. smile

Regards,

#334426 - 09/20/10 5:47 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: Stuart]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Hi Folks,
Back when i did my brakes over , the only floating disk available was from "Shropshire Classic Motorcycles":
http://triumphbonneville.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/T140disc.html
Even though quite expensive, i bought a set and they are fantastic.

The only non-standard item replaced was the rear remote reservoir, sourced from Brembo on a Ducati website.
Can't remember what pads, but they were recommended by Shropshire to be compatible with their disks.
Oh yeah, after spending all that money, i plumbed the systems with silicon DOT 5.
No complaints.


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#334441 - 09/20/10 7:59 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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Just a stupid question Brian: Why did you think you needed a "floating" disc when you have self centering opposing piston caliper?


#334484 - 09/21/10 1:15 am Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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J. Charles Smith Offline
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Every modern race bike has dual-active calipers working on floating discs.

#334535 - 09/21/10 2:12 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: J. Charles Smith]  
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JBMorris Online content
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Quote:
"Jonh Healy": Why did you think you needed a "floating" disc when you have self centering opposing piston caliper?

Hi John,
To be honest, i didn't actually think about it at all,(Co-axial alignment) but i did want a setup that would work in the rain, and it does!
The following was sourced from Brembo:
Why use a two-piece "floating" disc assembly?
There are several reasons that a two-piece floating disc assembly is of benefit. First, by using an aluminum bell for the hub section of the disc saves a great deal of weight. Since this is both rotating and unsprung, it benefits the acceleration, braking, and handling of the vehicle. Secondly, it is better able to handle the large temperature changes that a brake disc experiences. During severe use, temperature variances become present in a one-piece disc and generally cause warping of the disc. This not only results in vibration of the vehicle, and pulsing of the brake pedal, but also pushes the pistons farther away from the disc. In a two-piece floating disc assembly, the iron disc heats up more uniformly, and the controlled float which is present allows for the differential expansion of the very hot brake disc, and the relatively cool aluminum bell. This allows the disc to be used under severe conditions without having a detrimental effect.

Sorry, i forgot how to format the quote thingy.
BTW, my issues of Vintage Bike lists me as "Brein".


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
#334553 - 09/21/10 4:21 pm Re: Norman Hyde 12" front disc for T140's [Re: retired-fireman]  
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John Healy Online content
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Brien:
Quote:
but i did want a setup that would work in the rain


But we can do this with a set of brake pads!

I will fire up the pesky Windows PC and change the sp!
John

left bracket ([) word "quote" then right bracket (]) then enter TEXT HERE
then left bracket ([) back slash (/) word "quote" then right bracket (])

It looks like this BUT WITHOUT THE " AROUND THE WORD QUOTE

["quote"] text here ["/quote"]

If I left the "''s out it would have created a box like this:
Quote:
That's a nice looking bike


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