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#334338 - 09/19/10 8:04 pm Gasket sealant, or not?  
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 264
Buckshot1 Online content
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Buckshot1  Online Content
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Old Hangtown, Kalifornia
I'm putting the rocker boxes back on my T120 and was deciding what to use for sealant, or not. Both sides? One? Goop one side, grease the other? Since there aren't a lot of gaskets on these bikes, I'd like to hear what, where, and how this is done. I've searched and found snippets here and there. Thought it would be nice to gather the recommendations from ya'll.


Michael

currently owned by a 72 T120R
maker of plunger conversion jig
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#334351 - 09/19/10 9:58 pm Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
Joined: Jun 2007
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lrutt Offline
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lrutt  Offline
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Deltona, FL
I was told by a gent who has done more engines than I can count, to clean both surfaces very very good and use the gaskets he sells. Should be oil tight. So far he's been correct. I figure as many motors as he does, he know the right gaskets to use so I might pay a little more but I get them all through him.


1970 Tiger
1971 Trophy
1973 Commando
1976 CB750k
1965 CA77
1978 CB750k
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1971 RT1B
1977 Lemans
2001 M900
2001 XR650L
1994 FLSTC
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#334352 - 09/19/10 9:59 pm Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
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JubeePrince Online content
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JubeePrince  Online Content

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Back on the mainland!
Michael -

IMO, you definitely want gaskets there.

If you use the stainless steel gaskets (metal sandwiched between layers of paper) and your surfaces are clean and true, you will have NO need for sealant of any kind....

Also worth mentioning with the steel variety: the added bonus of very little 'settling' of the gasket material (unlike solid paper or wire-reinforced gaskets) which equates to less adjustments to the valve lash with new gaskets...

I suspect the copper RB gaskets have similar qualities.

With the plain paper or wire-reinforced gaskets, I'd lightly grease both sides and assemble...

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
#334357 - 09/19/10 11:34 pm Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: JubeePrince]  
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Buckshot1 Online content
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Buckshot1  Online Content
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Posts: 264
Old Hangtown, Kalifornia
I do have the sandwich gaskets. I took about 5 thou off the head awhile back and flat sanded the boxes, so I'll give the dry route a go. I believe I have leaking of the small access plugs solved. If that is the case, I'll start a new thread with pics for that.


Michael

currently owned by a 72 T120R
maker of plunger conversion jig
#334368 - 09/20/10 1:28 am Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
Joined: Aug 2001
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Mark Z Online content
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Mark Z  Online Content
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Posts: 4,193
Owego, NY, USA
There may be other reasons for not using gasket cement between the rocker boxes and head, but having to clean one up where cement was used is hellish. Same goes for cyl. base gasket, IMO.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
#334382 - 09/20/10 3:21 am Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
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HawaiianTiger Online content
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content

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Maui Hawaii
I don't use gaskets anymore. There are better ways to seal these days. You probably won't find a gasket on any modern machine either except Harleys. Gasket crush alone acounts for more leaks and loose fasteners than anything else.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
#334384 - 09/20/10 4:02 am Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
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RetroRod Offline
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RetroRod  Offline
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QLD, Australia
Hey Buckshot,

Just goes to show, that everyone has a favorite approach to this topic (as they do to almost all topics) grin .

Everyone will tell you that the Triumph factory machining was certainly not up to the Japanese standards, and this pretty much, we are told, accounts for the oil leak reputation that the old tarts enjoy. I agree, one has to be very meticulous to avoid oil leaks.

I have developed a view to approach each sealing task individually. I have been relatively successful I might add. I assemble my bike on the assumption that I have done the job well and will not be back soon.

I use gaskets on the gearbox, with a light coating (both sides) of Permatex Number 3 aviation sealer. Likewise the primary cover, timing case cover, and the tappet inspection covers. In any case Permatex 3 is not difficult to remove as does not harden and does not have an irreversible grip on the surface as some sealers do. Silicone based sealers can be time consuming to remove also.

I have been using a sandwich type gasket under the rocker boxes (it has a rubbery kind of finish)and install without sealer of any kind.

I confess to a minute leak from a tappet cover at one point and have been too lazy to fix this.

I think it a mistake to reuse gaskets (even if they look OK) if one is seeking absolute oil tightness. Once the gasket has been torqued down initially, there is an increased likelihood a reuse will not find the exact alignment and a leak occurs. I'd guess many leaks are the result of reused paper gaskets and a dab, here and there, of whatever sealer is available.

PCV will do more to keep the oil on the inside than most sealers. RR

Last edited by RetroRod; 09/20/10 4:04 am.

'72 Bonneville
"He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have." - Don Juan Manuel
#334388 - 09/20/10 8:11 am Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,524
dave jones Offline
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dave jones  Offline
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Posts: 3,524
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
I used the gaskets with wire in them and a thin coating of grease at the rockerboxes. They are holding up well after many thousands of miles. The base gasket (similar black material but no wire) I put on dry and there is a little oil coming from this area that seems to come from around some of the fixing nuts. Not nearly bad enough to worry about but still a failure, I suppose. Brown paper envelope gaskets with grease work fine on the manifold and carb gaskets. Silicone sealant around chaincase and gearbox with no leaks. On the chaincase joint I put the sealant on the cover and a thin layer of oil on the crankcase side. This makes the cover easy to remove again with no difficult cleaning needed on the engine side. Black gaskets with grease at the oil pump and pipe block. Golden hermetite at the crankcase joint. My machine does drip a couple of drops fronm the clutch oil seal after a run but this stops once the engine has stopped. The gearbox oil seal is similar. Here I am talking about the round black rubber items. (67 TR6R).

Everyone will have different ideas but the state of the surfaces governs whether you have to use an actual sealant with a gasket, I would say. The chaincase covers are often slightly warped so are hard to seal with a gasket.
Dave

Last edited by dave jones; 09/20/10 8:12 am.
#334411 - 09/20/10 3:49 pm Re: Gasket sealant, or not? [Re: Buckshot1]  
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Posts: 264
Buckshot1 Online content
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Buckshot1  Online Content
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Posts: 264
Old Hangtown, Kalifornia
Thanks to all for the input. As expected, some differing ideas, each having merit. The subject seems to be rarely, if ever, covered in any service manuals that I've seen. Recently, I was into the gear box, clutch, timing cover, and all that entails. Oil pump and chain case got grease, gearbox got new o-rings and bushings, covers done with no gaskets and Permatex 2. The drive sprocket was done following the procedure Richard wrote up on the GABMA site. I usually get one good drop of oil on the ground after a ride, I can live with that. A bit of weepage underneath because I hadn't bothered to anneal the copper washers. The last time the rocker boxes were installed, I gooped both sides. This time I was thinking one or none. Going dry this time. Thanks again, must go to work.


Michael

currently owned by a 72 T120R
maker of plunger conversion jig

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